Preview Round 3, 2018: Sat 7th St Kilda vs Adelaide. Thread of positivity

[gringo2011]

It's depressing comparing how amazing the crowds are at soccer games in Europe to what we have at St Kilda games. A loud, passionate supporter base can have a genuine influence on the performance of the opposition, as well as spurring the home team on. It's really like having an extra player on the field.

We'd all remember the "COOOOOLLINGWOOOOOD" chant from their supporters in 2010, and I have no doubt it would have had an effect on players. Obviously we're no Collingwood, but we should be able to make some bloody noise at Etihad, you can hear a pin drop in there for a large portion of the game.

The ticketing at Etihad should be given over more to GA with a cheap upgrade. Up top you have all the GA crowd and then most of the two lower floors are empty. Up top you feel like the place is so quiet that people will tell you offer for anything over a whisper.

 

[Diehard Saint]

View attachment 479628

Noice!
Get onto that for a flag, Cheer Squad!

 

[Coys]

The ticketing at Etihad should be given over more to GA with a cheap upgrade. Up top you have all the GA crowd and then most of the two lower floors are empty. Up top you feel like the place is so quiet that people will tell you offer for anything over a whisper.

It’s really baffling how the club can push “pay an extra $35 for a level one seat” when its 1. Not selling like they hope and 2. The top deck is almost filled to the back. I’d love to be able to afford the upgrade but unfortunately cannot and it seems like there’s plenty in the same boat as me

 

[cooperrules]

This is how it works on here for some people. There are people excited with the changes yet would hardly have seen the new players play and now we just put players in positions they have never played because it may work. Then we get thrashed and the coach has no idea Adelaide are just better than us. We need to play guys in their best position and hope we play our best and Adelaide are off. That is our best hope for a win not putting backs forward and forwards back


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No you dont sicily was a fore

This is how it works on here for some people. There are people excited with the changes yet would hardly have seen the new players play and now we just put players in positions they have never played because it may work. Then we get thrashed and the coach has no idea Adelaide are just better than us. We need to play guys in their best position and hope we play our best and Adelaide are off. That is our best hope for a win not putting backs forward and forwards back


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really worked a treat last week.

 

[Plugger35]

Another reason for optimism/positivity, Brad Hardie tipped us for the upset of the round on 6PR today.

You might scoff at Brad Hardie but his tips are usually pretty solid, he didn't even tip the Bulldogs this week either so he was taking it seriously.

I've tipped us too but that's no great guide, I tip us every week even when the odds are against us, I'd be kicking myself if I didn't tip us for an upset.

 

[austinnn]

Not the coaches fault if skill level varies wildly from week to week. How can Richo be to blame for Membrey and McCartin dropping simple chest marks?

Funny thing is that I'm not sure the skill level actually does vary that much; I think we're unskilled in general in regards to disposal or decision making. I think the varying factors include: how much we run without the ball - looking for the right spots to pounce on a spill, so how switched on we are - how well the marking forwards hold their marks, the breaks with umpiring, and obviously the quality/intensity of opposition.

I say that because I re-watched the North-St Kilda horror show again this last few days, then I went back and had a look at one of our supposed best games last year, the win against the Giants. (Quarters 2, 3 & 4 are available on YouTube, I heartily recommend it)

Surprisingly, considering how cocky we were after that game and how we're convinced the sky is falling this week, the two games were really similar in the first halves and even until about half way through the third quarter. Even in the last 45 minutes of the Giants game when we started pulling away and piling on the goals, there were still really clumsy moments and costly turnovers from us.

I think we haven't been a highly skilled polished team for a long time, and when we win games, it's on the back of relentless pressure in all areas of the ground which is why we've been inconsistent, because some teams are better set up to deal with that than others. And as we saw in our last game, our pressure hasn't always been there. It's also possible we had more vets in the team - previous to this season - who at their best had enough skill to carry the team.

I'm not saying it's good mind you, personally I'd prefer to have a team capable of the skillful stuff too. But I can see what Richo and Geary are on about too; if we don't bring our pressure, we've got nothing basically. That is why in their mind the first match vs Brissie wasn't so bad; after all we fought back and won the game, which I suspect is the kind of win they both prefer rather than a downhill skiing easy victory.

.................................................................................................................................................

I remember when Richo was appointed, he made it clear he'd be pushing the work ethic thing right from the get go; I recall a phrase he used concerning training; "Better to wear out than rust out" or something like that. After Watters, I think the perception was we'd gotten a bit too smartarsey without ticking off the fundamentals, and as a young rebuilding side emerged from the the ashes of the GT/Lyon years, the emphasis went on getting a supposedly-crack development coach to build from strong foundations.

So we've always been unskilled, and maybe now we're slowly changing that, through different coaching (Playfair, McPhee, Kingsley, plus Richo stepping back a bit) and just now promoting different, more skilled players (White, Coffield, Marshall) in the place of grunt (Longer, Stevens, plus non-selection of other players in that Giants game (Wright, Mitchington who is obviously injured, and Gilbert). It's another transition phase, and there is no guarantee it's the right fit for us, but it's probably where we need to go as a team, so strap yourselves in for a roller-coaster year!

I don't mind Richo and co putting pressure on themselves by saying "Finals or Bust" this year, because I suspect that it means they are willing to pay for under-delivering with their jobs, that they've accepted that if they can't bring the team through this transition well, then it's time for them to step away and a different type of coaching team take these Saints on the next part of their journey. I hope I'm right anyway.

 

[Saintleigh]

Some people are tipping the match will struggle to get to 20k.. dafuq? Embarrassing if it’s around that area.

 

[austinnn]

This is poor management & retention the writing was on the wall last year yet we retained him, people will say a contract so what some time you need to bite the bullet another spot on our list wasted, we are already carrying Freeman.

Force Hickey and a few others to ask for trades I reckon. We need to get into the 2nd round of this next draft.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Personally I think that's utter nonsense. Hickey was pretty ordinary in the one JLT match he played, but was still more effective than Longer. If we are going to write off players based on a handful of ordinary games, and say that they have no ticker etc, then we may as well say the same for about half the side based on the first two rounds.

Quite a few of our players look devoid of confidence at the moment, just like Hickey. So I guess we can safely say that Bruce, McCartin, Sinclair, Steele are all gutless players that lack fight and mental toughness. De-list the lot of them.

If the coaches have stamped his papers based on that Essendon game then they are even dumber than I thought.

Agreed. Hickey also hasn't had a chance to be our solo ruckman for almost a year.

If we give him a chance and back him in for a few games he might actually turn his form around. Even if he doesn't he's still better than Longer

 

[Jughead77]

I think with 80+ pages in the other thread and 50+ here we've pretty much dissected and gone over everything conceivable that's wrong with the team and our possible fixes. Now im just looking forward to some effort and action on the field.

Good luck to the Coff in his debut. First of many i hope. Carn the Saints.

 

[BrutThough]

Football is all about sliding doors, no one generally picks up dead wood from a club that isn't winning finals. I think we can safely say that some of the players cut loose showed more than some still on the list due to contracts being offered that were longer than necessary. I reckon Holmes wold have been handier than Wright right now. NOK was showing more than plenty at Sandringham. Seeing the club has something against Hickey where he wouldn't get selected to carry the players boots, you'd think that Holmes would make more sense. They should have delisted Hickey and let him go somewhere that wanted him and paid out Pierce. We don't seem to have a lot of process in place.I even think Lee was mishandled, he got cut when he finally started to show something after he got his shoulders fixed. No point in going back though, we just need to fix what we are doing so it doesn't happen again.

Getting very close to fan fiction there.

NOK gathered possessions in the VFL but most reports stated he didnt actually have an influence on the game. Templeton provided a spark in his first few games, but was completely ruined by that injury and was just never the same. Holmes was 28 years old and was never going to pick up his understanding of the game.

Wright has played some very good AFL games, had a physical presence and been able to change his position to suit the team.Minch has been a match winner and rated elite for his pressure. Pierce is 23 for the whole season, costs nothing, and has only had a proper AFL body for a few years. Hickey resigned after a strong season as the number one ruck.

You may not like the players we re-contracted, but it is easy to see why they reconstructed the players they did.

 

[Sainter88]

Anyone hear about a possible Membrey knee injury?

 

[austinnn]

Anyone hear about a possible Membrey knee injury?

No:

What did you hear, and where?

 

[Longmembrey]

Carlton board going full-melt. It's funny because it's not us (yet)

 

[gringo2011]

Some people are tipping the match will struggle to get to 20k.. dafuq? Embarrassing if it’s around that area.

Not unusual for interstate games against us.

 

[Sainter88]

No:

What did you hear, and where?

Mate told me, said he hurt his knee Thursday but not sure on severity.
He’s usually pretty good with his info.

 

[Saintleigh]

Not unusual for interstate games against us.

But still.. crows are a good team to watch.. they are my second team too. Seeing a crowd of 19k would be depressing!

 

[gringo2011]

Getting very close to fan fiction there.

NOK gathered possessions in the VFL but most reports stated he didnt actually have an influence on the game. Templeton provided a spark in his first few games, but was completely ruined by that injury and was just never the same. Holmes was 28 years old and was never going to pick up his understanding of the game.

Wright has played some very good AFL games, had a physical presence and been able to change his position to suit the team.Minch has been a match winner and rated elite for his pressure. Pierce is 23 for the whole season, costs nothing, and has only had a proper AFL body for a few years. Hickey resigned after a strong season as the number one ruck.

You may not like the players we re-contracted, but it is easy to see why they reconstructed the players they did.

If you have made it to 5 years on the list and you aren't even regularly a depth player in the emergencies you are just filling spots. Holmes tapped better than most of our rucks, he could palm to spots the mids wanted. He would have been more useful than Hickey who is not considered even when Longer is physically shot and even a kid who is not really a true ruck is preferable. I'd say it's dumb management, you have a different opinion. Minch and Wright are from 2012, Richo can't coach because he's been there since the end of 2013 without a flag but these guys are excellent footballers. Might be equally as fictional.

 

[gringo2011]

Funny thing is that I'm not sure the skill level actually does vary that much; I think we're unskilled in general in regards to disposal or decision making. I think the varying factors include: how much we run without the ball - looking for the right spots to pounce on a spill, so how switched on we are - how well the marking forwards hold their marks, the breaks with umpiring, and obviously the quality/intensity of opposition.

I say that because I re-watched the North-St Kilda horror show again this last few days, then I went back and had a look at one of our supposed best games last year, the win against the Giants. (Quarters 2, 3 & 4 are available on YouTube, I heartily recommend it)

Surprisingly, considering how cocky we were after that game and how we're convinced the sky is falling this week, the two games were really similar in the first halves and even until about half way through the third quarter. Even in the last 45 minutes of the Giants game when we started pulling away and piling on the goals, there were still really clumsy moments and costly turnovers from us.

I think we haven't been a highly skilled polished team for a long time, and when we win games, it's on the back of relentless pressure in all areas of the ground which is why we've been inconsistent, because some teams are better set up to deal with that than others. And as we saw in our last game, our pressure hasn't always been there. It's also possible we had more vets in the team - previous to this season - who at their best had enough skill to carry the team.

I'm not saying it's good mind you, personally I'd prefer to have a team capable of the skillful stuff too. But I can see what Richo and Geary are on about too; if we don't bring our pressure, we've got nothing basically. That is why in their mind the first match vs Brissie wasn't so bad; after all we fought back and won the game, which I suspect is the kind of win they both prefer rather than a downhill skiing easy victory.

.................................................................................................................................................

I remember when Richo was appointed, he made it clear he'd be pushing the work ethic thing right from the get go; I recall a phrase he used concerning training; "Better to wear out than rust out" or something like that. After Watters, I think the perception was we'd gotten a bit too smartarsey without ticking off the fundamentals, and as a young rebuilding side emerged from the the ashes of the GT/Lyon years, the emphasis went on getting a supposedly-crack development coach to build from strong foundations.

So we've always been unskilled, and maybe now we're slowly changing that, through different coaching (Playfair, McPhee, Kingsley, plus Richo stepping back a bit) and just now promoting different, more skilled players (White, Coffield, Marshall) in the place of grunt (Longer, Stevens, plus non-selection of other players in that Giants game (Wright, Mitchington who is obviously injured, and Gilbert). It's another transition phase, and there is no guarantee it's the right fit for us, but it's probably where we need to go as a team, so strap yourselves in for a roller-coaster year!

I don't mind Richo and co putting pressure on themselves by saying "Finals or Bust" this year, because I suspect that it means they are willing to pay for under-delivering with their jobs, that they've accepted that if they can't bring the team through this transition well, then it's time for them to step away and a different type of coaching team take these Saints on the next part of their journey. I hope I'm right anyway.

Yeah that's what I've been arguing, we are really a club that is needing 100% effort because we can't compete on skills. All our best games we have been efficient with what we have but never clean. We used to move the ball so fast that others couldn't touch it. I think we've slowed it dow as we have improved our skills but not enough to bridge a very big gulf. I think he's bought in kids with skills this week to try to use the current game plan with better users. I think he's probably pissed that guys that rely on an effort based game to counter the skills failed to bring the effort. You might as well use the kids who touch it less but make them count.

 

[PaddysurDaddy]

yeah I was surprised we offloaded holmes but not pierce.. holmes was quite a good ruckman in regards to the actual rucking

 

[BrutThough]

If you have made it to 5 years on the list and you aren't even regularly a depth player in the emergencies you are just filling spots. Holmes tapped better than most of our rucks, he could palm to spots the mids wanted. He would have been more useful than Hickey who is not considered even when Longer is physically shot and even a kid who is not really a true ruck is preferable. I'd say it's dumb management, you have a different opinion. Minch and Wright are from 2012, Richo can't coach because he's been there since the end of 2013 without a flag but these guys are excellent footballers. Might be equally as fictional.

The timeline is different for project ruckman. Pierce will never make it as an AFL player, but there is huge logic behind having the young ruckman who actually understands AFL on the list for depth instead of the 28 year old USA import who doesn't understand AFL. And Hickey has proven to be an AFL quality ruckman hence why you would want him recontracted.

Wright was best 22 for the most part of 2016 and added something to the team we missed (toughness), why wouldn't you have contracted him at the time? Minch has been valuable back up and depth for the forward line. You can't delist every player who isn't best 22 every week as you need more than 22 capable players on the list. And at the time, we didnt have any other players to have for that depth.

And what does any of this have to do with Richo's coaching?

 

[sainterryan]

I thought we were a very inexperienced team last week in terms of games played , well minus another 120 games experience with these changes.

 

[gringo2011]

The timeline is different for project ruckman. Pierce will never make it as an AFL player, but there is huge logic behind having the young ruckman who actually understands AFL on the list for depth instead of the 28 year old USA import who doesn't understand AFL. And Hickey has proven to be an AFL quality ruckman hence why you would want him recontracted.

Wright was best 22 for the most part of 2016 and added something to the team we missed (toughness), why wouldn't you have contracted him at the time? Minch has been valuable back up and depth for the forward line. You can't delist every player who isn't best 22 every week as you need more than 22 capable players on the list. And at the time, we didnt have any other players to have for that depth.

And what does any of this have to do with Richo's coaching?

But the coach should communicate Hickey nothing in his plans then. We could have just delisted him.

 

[BrutThough]

But the coach should communicate Hickey nothing in his plans then. We could have just delisted him.

you can't just delist a guy who has 2 years left on his contract. either they need to find a new club or agreed to be paid out.

 

[MollyBana]

I thought we were a very inexperienced team last week in terms of games played , well minus another 120 games experience with these changes.

Yeah but 120% more skill