Review Round 4, 2022 - Geelong vs. Brisbane Lions

[martinson]

Incorrect. They've been on an upward trajectory since round one. Sure, they took a step back this week but if you expect them coming good to be a linear process then you have unrealistic expectations (saying that in general and not specifically about you and your expectations).

The club will have a timeline in which they expect both to be hitting their straps and KPIs/results they need to meet. If either player doesn't, there'd be a plan B and C in the pipeline should we need it.

I understand exactly where they're at in their preparations . It's fine. My point being putting all your chips in them delivering what you want in 10 weeks time is still a risk and if we have a plan B or C 2 guys in the ressies have shown enough to warrant having a look at them now . While we can.

But that's predicated on my belief that we're missing a run both ways midfielder with a bit of zip. And I don't think anyone currently playing will offer that bar maybe Neale who already carries the majority of the load.

 

[martinson]

There’s this bloke in our reserves who broke Sam Walsh’s disposal record at the U18 championships. Runs both ways, willing tackler, needed to work on his kicking when he arrived at the club.

Where's he at ? Let's play him .

 

[M Malice]

 

[Sanchez365]

Might take us a bit to really get going this year. Ultimately, we have made changes to our midfield mix, and we do have a new midfield coach. It is promising that we are starting to bring others through the middle as we need some new blood in there, but it will take time. I also like that Bruce has come in, and a common theme coming out has been improving our transitional running which was a weakness. These things are going to take some time though.

Rayner needs to be treated like a new player. I don't think he is doing anything wrong at this stage, he just needs the game time. Doing it in the ressies won't help him. Cockatoo also still needs time. He is much better this year, will only improve.

When we have a game like that where we are down, a lot of players go missing, because that is what happens when you don't win the ball, move it well and give them a chance. Our worst players were probably all the HF types. No point dropping those players, they weren't the problem.

Agree with all of this, especially on the half forward statements. I thought McCarthy was incredibly quiet on Friday, but there haven't been any calls for him to get dropped (which I agree with). The engine room mix still isn't right, but I agree it will take a bit more time. If that can develop over the season we will.be unstoppable.

 

[briztoon]

Look, my profile pic. He’s a handsome fellow.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

We are also not aggressive enough from our half back at centre bounces, we stay in the D50 leaving major gaps between the centre square and 50, considering how often their mids beat us and our poor tackles in the the centre bounce it was a problem.

 

[On the quiet]

The problem Friday night is that most times we kicked it to a cluster contest and on the occasions we had an opportunity to break it open on the burst our execution was atrocious. Everyone at the club would be aware that we need a mid or two who gets it at both ends and can break it open. Pre season the talk was that Rayner ,Cockatoo and Bailey were at least going to do the latter but I can hardly remember any of them being in the back half all that much.

Maybe the guys we have in the twos aren't considered up to that either. So unless the above 3 step up or we take a punt on someone else for some games it'll continue to be an issue in big games.

Ah Chee has more to offer now he has some confidence in his abilities . It could be a moon shot but perhaps he merits some M/F time.

I think a few years ago (during the later part of 2018 and around the middle of 2019) when Cam was struggling, the club should have dropped him back to reserves for a few weeks to gain some confidence, but likely the club did not have the appetite to drop a #1 draft pick and all the media attention. All in hindsight now. I think we have to persist with Cam, as it would take awhile to be confident after an ACL. That said, I like Dev and hope they can find a spot for him sooner rather than later.

 

[p4p1]

I think a few years ago (during the later part of 2018 and around the middle of 2019) when Cam was struggling, the club should have dropped him back to reserves for a few weeks to gain some confidence, but likely the club did not have the appetite to drop a #1 draft pick and all the media attention. All in hindsight now. I think we have to persist with Cam, as it would take awhile to be confident after an ACL. That said, I like Dev and hope they can find a spot for him sooner rather than later.

I wonder if Dev can go on a wing? I think we need a Robbo replacement. I do also like Bailey on the wing but I'm not sure if his tank is up to it.

 

[SizeMatters]

I'm not even confident Cam would dominate the reserves. Why are people so certain he would? I reckon drop him back for 2 or 3 weeks and play him inside mid. See how he goes?

 

[mattsmob]

I'm not even confident Cam would dominate the reserves. Why are people so certain he would? I reckon drop him back for 2 or 3 weeks and play him inside mid. See how he goes?

I don't see the point in dropping him back there, he's never been a big disposal guy so I doubt he'd go back there an get 30 touches, will probably just get 15-20 and a couple goals which we already know he can do. IMO he is where he should be which is the AFL team getting back into things, getting used to a new role and still having an impact which I believe he is doing.

 

[scoman]

I don't see the point in dropping him back there, he's never been a big disposal guy so I doubt he'd go back there an get 30 touches, will probably just get 15-20 and a couple goals which we already know he can do. IMO he is where he should be which is the AFL team getting back into things, getting used to a new role and still having an impact which I believe he is doing.

Just out of interest, and I understand that yours is a popular opinion, but why is it that Cam is considered too good to play reserves? It's been this way since he was drafted. Would his ego not cope? I'm sure it would, we always hear about how great of a fella he is.

So why is it that a guy like him has always played seniors and someone like Dev is in and out?

 

[mattsmob]

Just out of interest, and I understand that yours is a popular opinion, but why is it that Cam is considered too good to play reserves? It's been this way since he was drafted. Would his ego not cope? I'm sure it would, we always hear about how great of a fella he is.

So why is it that a guy like him has always played seniors and someone like Dev is in and out?

I don’t think he’s too good for reserves, I think he’s good enough for AFL and playing reserves wouldn’t do much for his development IMO. I’m sure if he was dropped he’d go back there and put in 110%, certainly don’t have question marks on his ego for it.

 

[martinson]

Just out of interest, and I understand that yours is a popular opinion, but why is it that Cam is considered too good to play reserves? It's been this way since he was drafted. Would his ego not cope? I'm sure it would, we always hear about how great of a fella he is.

So why is it that a guy like him has always played seniors and someone like Dev is in and out?

I think we made the decision that Cam was going to be a marketing feature at the time we drafted him because let's face it we didn't have a lot going for us. And once we crossed the Rubicon on that he was never going to be dropped unless he was deplorable.

He's playing well enough to retain his place and following his ACL now has a body like Ollie Wines . It's not his fault we decided to keep him in the Seniors when his form perhaps didn't always merit it but we've passed that point now and just hope he keeps improving.

He's doing some good things in small bursts . As he gets more confidence in his body they might become larger bursts.

But we have supported him strongly and I'm sure he's aware of that.

 

[winged1]

Mute the commentary and put on relaxing music.

At the drive in

 

[royboys4eva]

Rayner is never going to be a 25+ disposals player - certainly not at this stage of his career. He just doesn't have the tank. But if he is going to be that explosive player who bursts out of a pack or kicks a goal on the run, he needs to do it a bit more often. But coming back from an ACL we shouldn't be expecting miracles either. It does concern me though if he is making statements about struggling to focus for an entire match! The ability to focus for entire match should be a given at this level.

Fullarton was awful I thought. Just didn't compete or read the play. Was often caught out the back of packs having no influence on the contest. I was hopeful that he could be a real surprise package and develop into a solid AFL player but nothing I have seen from him in the last 12 months suggests that.

Starcevich after such a breakout year in 2021 has struggled a bit this season. Dropping marks - poor choices when ball in hand. Just in general a bit off. I'm sure he will get back to last years form - hopefully sooner rather than later.

I thought Ah Chee played a really strong game. cracks in every contest - just needs to keep his feet more often.

Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

righty so gets most of the plaudits but Marcus Adams

24

Marcus Adams

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

240.5

4star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

57.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

6.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

235.8

4star

would be close to our best player this season. Been a wall down back.

That was by far Dan McStays best game for Lions - proves he can do it but we don't see enough of that quality. Also think he benefitted from Cats style of defence which is to sit of the contest and try to intercept mark or double up on the deep forwards. But I'm hoping that ripping game by Dan is the catalyst for him.

Enough has been said about the umpiring and Hawkins push but just as bad for me was a few mins later De Koning picked up the ball deep in defence turned to handball it off got caught and dropped it cold and he got a free kick because the Lions player held onto him to long after he DROPPED IT!!

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Fair dinkum- we lose to Geelong at that shit ground, with the usual piggy back from the umps by a couple of kicks. All of a sudden Lyons is no good, Andrews should be playing forward, Rayner should be dropped, Adcock should be sacked, Fagans game plan is shot, Bailey has no spark, Robbo needs to go(will have a blinder Thursday and everyone will agree he is a heart and soul player). We are going to lose games, if Rayner kicks the one from top of the square and we snag another on out the middle then the lid is off and we all getting 2022 tattoos.

 

[LIONS08]

Rayner is never going to be a 25+ disposals player - certainly not at this stage of his career. He just doesn't have the tank. But if he is going to be that explosive player who bursts out of a pack or kicks a goal on the run, he needs to do it a bit more often. But coming back from an ACL we shouldn't be expecting miracles either. It does concern me though if he is making statements about struggling to focus for an entire match! The ability to focus for entire match should be a given at this level.

Fullarton was awful I thought. Just didn't compete or read the play. Was often caught out the back of packs having no influence on the contest. I was hopeful that he could be a real surprise package and develop into a solid AFL player but nothing I have seen from him in the last 12 months suggests that.

Starcevich after such a breakout year in 2021 has struggled a bit this season. Dropping marks - poor choices when ball in hand. Just in general a bit off. I'm sure he will get back to last years form - hopefully sooner rather than later.

I thought Ah Chee played a really strong game. cracks in every contest - just needs to keep his feet more often.

Lachie Neale righty so gets most of the plaudits but Marcus Adams would be close to our best player this season. Been a wall down back.

That was by far Dan McStays best game for Lions - proves he can do it but we don't see enough of that quality. Also think he benefitted from Cats style of defence which is to sit of the contest and try to intercept mark or double up on the deep forwards. But I'm hoping that ripping game by Dan is the catalyst for him.

Enough has been said about the umpiring and Hawkins push but just as bad for me was a few mins later De Koning picked up the ball deep in defence turned to handball it off got caught and dropped it cold and he got a free kick because the Lions player held onto him to long after he DROPPED IT!!

When Rayner says that, I feel like it’s due to fatigue. The more match fitness he gets the better that will be… he isn’t the sort of player we really need to be racking up those touches… I feel his damage can be done with around the 20 touches mark. Similar to Jake Stringer. I see him in the Stringer mould more than a Petracca. By no means is that a bad thing. Stringer can be a freak. I suppose dusty can have 20 and tear a game apart!
I have absolutely zero doubts Cam will be a star for us. He isn’t far away. Mid way through this year he will have a game where he announces himself. Players like him take time and I can’t wait to see what he becomes.

 

[Quigley]

A lot of people have jumped on the Ah Chee bandwagon. Tell me what you see him being?

I am not there although I do concede he has improved since he arrived. To me he is a low possession utility who has limited hurt factor. He has improved to the extent that he is now a solid player who defends pretty well and does not make the mistakes with the ball that he did previously. He looks like a solid top 25 type but I just see others with higher ceilings who I would like to give an opportunity to.

 

[M Malice]

A lot of people have jumped on the Ah Chee bandwagon. Tell me what you see him being?

I am not there although I do concede he has improved since he arrived. To me he is a low possession utility who has limited hurt factor. He has improved to the extent that he is now a solid player who defends pretty well and does not make the mistakes with the ball that he did previously. He looks like a solid top 25 type but I just see others with higher ceilings who I would like to give an opportunity to.

If Callum has the endurance for it I think his best spot would be on the wing.

 

[briztoon]

A lot of people have jumped on the Ah Chee bandwagon. Tell me what you see him being?

I am not there although I do concede he has improved since he arrived. To me he is a low possession utility who has limited hurt factor. He has improved to the extent that he is now a solid player who defends pretty well and does not make the mistakes with the ball that he did previously. He looks like a solid top 25 type but I just see others with higher ceilings who I would like to give an opportunity to.

I thought he looked good on the wing on Friday night.

He looked composed, and had a few “Hugh” like moments, collecting the ball and weaving through congestion, to then deliver the ball forward.

He was good offensively and defensively, and I don’t remember him turning the ball over or hack kicking it forward.

Fish has been talking Ah Chee up for the wing for two years now, and I see it now.

 

[martinson]

A lot of people have jumped on the Ah Chee bandwagon. Tell me what you see him being?

I am not there although I do concede he has improved since he arrived. To me he is a low possession utility who has limited hurt factor. He has improved to the extent that he is now a solid player who defends pretty well and does not make the mistakes with the ball that he did previously. He looks like a solid top 25 type but I just see others with higher ceilings who I would like to give an opportunity to.

He's always been good at defending and is a lot tougher than he looks doing team things that go unnoticed.

He can jump high like a Kangaroo ,take a mark , his kicking for goal has always been reliable ,now over the field.

I think he has a lot of ability and has lacked confidence. Last week he stopped the opposition on turnover against 2 opponents at least twice from memory.

Versatility is his strongpoint ,you can plug him in anywhere on the field. That's like gold if you're any good.

Fwiiw I've always been on the bandwagon. I figure him being a perfect utility in the 22. Give him a job and he won't botch it , able to be swung over the field to cover anyone injured if required.

I figure many people have never really liked him as a player and aren't changing their mind now but I understand your viewpoint and I guess we'll see over the next several weeks.

 

[Nathan Barley]

On Ah Chee; Against Geelong the standout was his marking especially when he gave away height to Blicavs or was the target of a centering kick

Against North he went beast mode and was exceptional in all facets of the game

As highlighted before the Geelong game he offers defensive coverage for Zorko as well

 

[On the quiet]

I wonder if Dev can go on a wing? I think we need a Robbo replacement. I do also like Bailey on the wing but I'm not sure if his tank is up to it.

Would like to see him be given a go, just wondering if Sharp is being penciled in for the wing, can run all day like Langdon from the Demons

 

[On the quiet]

Just out of interest, and I understand that yours is a popular opinion, but why is it that Cam is considered too good to play reserves? It's been this way since he was drafted. Would his ego not cope? I'm sure it would, we always hear about how great of a fella he is.

So why is it that a guy like him has always played seniors and someone like Dev is in and out?

Yes it is frustrating, especially as I posted previously that arguably Cam in late 2018, and mid 2019 IMO should have been dropped to reserves (to gain some confidence) for a few weeks but as I said I suspect there was/is too much heat from the media dropping a #1 draft pick. If the club did not drop him then they will not do it now, so frustrating for Dev or some of the other fringe players.

 

[martinson]

Yes it is frustrating, especially as I posted previously that arguably Cam in late 2018, and mid 2019 IMO should have been dropped to reserves (to gain some confidence) for a few weeks but as I said I suspect there was/is too much heat from the media dropping a #1 draft pick. If the club did not drop him then they will not do it now, so frustrating for Dev or some of the other fringe players.

Do you think he should be dropped though ?

He's doing enough to comfortably hold his place.