Review Round 4, 2022 - Geelong vs. Brisbane Lions

[p4p1]

Do you think he should be dropped though ?

He's doing enough to comfortably hold his place.

I personally don't I think he should. I feel like with each passing round this year I see him more on the TV. I'm not sure what his stats look like but seeing him more tells me he is at least at or around the play which can only be a good sign. Lets not forget he has stood proud in finals for us. Havings said that I would have no objection for him to be dropped down for a game or two to go ball chasing in the 2's.

 

[p4p1]

Sort of on topic but I do think the media and some fans place to much pressure on high draft picks. I still feel on some level it's a bit of a crap shoot. Some guys at 18 are more or less fully grown men while others only just properly hit puberty. I remember Roosy say he thought that the draft age should be upped to 20 because the clubs would benefit from knowing if the standouts were just maturing faster than their peers, some 'late bloomers' would get a better chance because their body had a chance to mature more or catch up to their peers. He also made some arguments of why it would be better for the draftees as well but I can't remember the points he made.

 

[briztoon]

 

[Gadzorks]

When does the team list come out? It's only 48 hours away.

 

[dlanod]

When does the team list come out? It's only 48 hours away.

The team lists for this game came out last week.

 

[briztoon]

Sort of on topic but I do think the media and some fans place to much pressure on high draft picks. I still feel on some level it's a bit of a crap shoot. Some guys at 18 are more or less fully grown men while others only just properly hit puberty. I remember Roosy say he thought that the draft age should be upped to 20 because the clubs would benefit from knowing if the standouts were just maturing faster than their peers, some 'late bloomers' would get a better chance because their body had a chance to mature more or catch up to their peers. He also made some arguments of why it would be better for the draftees as well but I can't remember the points he made.

Despite my previous post, I’ve been giving your post some thought, particularly as it relates to the Lions.

First of all, yes the media sometimes does place a lot of pressure on some draftees. Quite often one draftee becomes the “face of the draft” for that year. In 2015, Schache was the face of the draft, and had the greatest role in the predraft AFL promo video.

Sometimes clubs and/or the media promote their first pick as the saviour and future of their club.

I believe it’s completely reasonable for fans to discuss draftees, and players in general, on forums and FB groups.

It’s completely unreasonable to make comments on a players personal SM accounts.


Almost every year there’s a discussion about the draft age. There’s valid points for and against raising the draft age.

It would certainly help clubs if the draft age was 20 in assessing the questionionable talent, or highlight previously highly regarded prospects who show a weakness in their game or fail to keep developing. It wouldn’t help the very top talent who are ready to play afl, such as your Walsh’s or Rowell’s or Daicos’s. But who makes that judgement?


In regards to the Lions, we’re just been a little unlucky.

We struck out in 2015.

Then we ran in to two drafts, in 2016 and 2017, that lacked in very high end prospects, either dominant inside mids or KPP’s.

My thoughts on McCluggage are that he’s a winger, who can also play outside the contest as that first receiver, but trying to push him in to the contest or centre bounces is putting in positions where he won’t get the best out of himself.

Our style of play certainly suits McCluggage playing as the skinny side winger, where he can have a greater impact on the game.


My thoughts on Rayner, are that we ran in to a draft where there wasn’t one (or two or three) top tier draftees. No Petracca or Walsh or Rowell (and Anderson).

Rayner didn’t have a draft year anything close to what Dusty Martin or Petracca showed in their draft years.

Nor has he shown the fast development of a Bontempeli or Oliver.

He really is the ultimate boom or bust high end prospect.

And having an ACL really puts him back 2 years in his growth.

My guess is that Rayner doesn’t begin to reach his prime years until he’s 26 or 27, and then we’ll have a 3 or 4 year window.

And I’m not sure his ceiling is as high or as good as Dusty.

Personally I don’t have any expectations on Rayner.

 

[LIONS08]

Despite my previous post, I’ve been giving your post some thought, particularly as it relates to the Lions.

First of all, yes the media sometimes does place a lot of pressure on some draftees. Quite often one draftee becomes the “face of the draft” for that year. In 2015, Schache was the face of the draft, and had the greatest role in the predraft AFL promo video.

Sometimes clubs and/or the media promote their first pick as the saviour and future of their club.

I believe it’s completely reasonable for fans to discuss draftees, and players in general, on forums and FB groups.

It’s completely unreasonable to make comments on a players personal SM accounts.


Almost every year there’s a discussion about the draft age. There’s valid points for and against raising the draft age.

It would certainly help clubs if the draft age was 20 in assessing the questionionable talent, or highlight previously highly regarded prospects who show a weakness in their game or fail to keep developing. It wouldn’t help the very top talent who are ready to play afl, such as your Walsh’s or Rowell’s or Daicos’s. But who makes that judgement?


In regards to the Lions, we’re just been a little unlucky.

We struck out in 2015.

Then we ran in to two drafts, in 2016 and 2017, that lacked in very high end prospects, either dominant inside mids or KPP’s.

My thoughts on McCluggage are that he’s a winger, who can also play outside the contest as that first receiver, but trying to push him in to the contest or centre bounces is putting in positions where he won’t get the best out of himself.

Our style of play certainly suits McCluggage playing as the skinny side winger, where he can have a greater impact on the game.


My thoughts on Rayner, are that we ran in to a draft where there wasn’t one (or two or three) top tier draftees. No Petracca or Walsh or Rowell (and Anderson).

Rayner didn’t have a draft year anything close to what Dusty Martin or Petracca showed in their draft years.

Nor has he shown the fast development of a Bontempeli or Oliver.

He really is the ultimate boom or bust high end prospect.

And having an ACL really puts him back 2 years in his growth.

My guess is that Rayner doesn’t begin to reach his prime years until he’s 26 or 27, and then we’ll have a 3 or 4 year window.

And I’m not sure his ceiling is as high or as good as Dusty.

Personally I don’t have any expectations on Rayner.

Adding to this just how good of a clubman Rayner has been. On field I get that he is open for criticism but off of it…. He really seems to be the perfect teammate. Exactly what we need. Seems to really get around everyone at the club. Clubman are just as important in a way as star players… especially to us

 

[briztoon]

Adding to this just how good of a clubman Rayner has been. On field I get that he is open for criticism but off of it…. He really seems to be the perfect teammate. Exactly what we need. Seems to really get around everyone at the club. Clubman are just as important in a way as star players… especially to us

I don’t have any criticism of Rayner for his on field performances (yet).

I cringe and arrgghhh when he misses an open goal, but move on from that pretty quick.

We all have an idea of what each of our players are capable of.

I’ll criticise when they don’t play close to their potential.


Most of my criticism is actually aimed at the coaches, because we know what the individual players are capable of, and know what they are capable of as a team, and yet, they keep picking the same players week in, week out.

Where as other teams, Melbourne included, will drop players and try and look to improve the team, by giving other players a run. Or rotate players, giving other players the chance to show what they’ve got.

 

[On the quiet]

Do you think he should be dropped though ?

He's doing enough to comfortably hold his place.

Probably not at the moment, and reality is I don't think it will happen regardless. Just may take some time to gain full confidence in the knee.

 

[LIONS08]

I don’t have any criticism of Rayner for his on field performances (yet).

I cringe and arrgghhh when he misses an open goal, but move on from that pretty quick.

We all have an idea of what each of our players are capable of.

I’ll criticise when they don’t play close to their potential.


Most of my criticism is actually aimed at the coaches, because we know what the individual players are capable of, and know what they are capable of as a team, and yet, they keep picking the same players week in, week out.

Where as other teams, Melbourne included, will drop players and try and look to improve the team, by giving other players a run. Or rotate players, giving other players the chance to show what they’ve got.

Yeah sorry mate in no way was my reply directed at you haha just used it for context. I really shouldn’t have quoted your post. My bad.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah sorry mate in no way was my reply directed at you haha just used it for context. I really shouldn’t have quoted your post. My bad.

All good. My reply wasn’t directed at you specifically. Just a subject I like talking about.

 

[Son of Superboot]

Geelong star Tom Hawkins addresses controversial umpiring call in gripping Lions clash

‘It probably is’: Cats star weighs in on THAT umpiring decision in crunch Lions clash

www.foxsports.com.au

So Hawkins, last night on AFL 360 admitted that it probably was a push in the back free against him in the last quarter. But ended the conversation with he probably wouldn't be getting another one in the future. Imagine if Adam Gilchrist played footy, "sorry ump, I pushed him, it should be a free kick against me!"
Even Petracca the other week declared a shot for goal he kicked was touched, but the umps and the goal review system disagree with him, much to his amazement.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

Eh later on in the game Andrews had a cheeky little push in the back. McStay toes the line each week (though honestly i think 90% of the time he is doing it perfectly fine). A touched ball is different than a push in the back or some kind of marking infringement.

And if I recall correctly Petracca was just telling his teammates so they are ready to set up for the kick right? I have no problems with Hawkins himself for that. Players will play right up to the the rules and over them constantly, it is up to the umps to crack down on it. Now if he is staging etc or doing something for a goal which isn't a footballing act then sure i'll pile on him (like those stupid oily arms.. ffs)

 

[Some_guy]

Geelong star Tom Hawkins addresses controversial umpiring call in gripping Lions clash

‘It probably is’: Cats star weighs in on THAT umpiring decision in crunch Lions clash

www.foxsports.com.au

So Hawkins, last night on AFL 360 admitted that it probably was a push in the back free against him in the last quarter. But ended the conversation with he probably wouldn't be getting another one in the future. Imagine if Adam Gilchrist played footy, "sorry ump, I pushed him, it should be a free kick against me!"
Even Petracca the other week declared a shot for goal he kicked was touched, but the umps and the goal review system disagree with him, much to his amazement.

Lol not a good comparison for Hawkins. Gilchrist was a well known walker

 

[Hollow Knight]

Geelong star Tom Hawkins addresses controversial umpiring call in gripping Lions clash

‘It probably is’: Cats star weighs in on THAT umpiring decision in crunch Lions clash

www.foxsports.com.au

So Hawkins, last night on AFL 360 admitted that it probably was a push in the back free against him in the last quarter. But ended the conversation with he probably wouldn't be getting another one in the future. Imagine if Adam Gilchrist played footy, "sorry ump, I pushed him, it should be a free kick against me!"
Even Petracca the other week declared a shot for goal he kicked was touched, but the umps and the goal review system disagree with him, much to his amazement.

Well there you have two high profile key forwards admitting the umpiring is so predictably inconsistent that they choose to cheat on the understanding they will get away with it literally half the time.

Can’t blame the players for that. It’s basic economics… remove the incentive to cheat and people will stop.

It should raise alarm bells at AFL House and the umpiring department, but of course it won’t. Will just remain another galling AFL360 throwaway chuckle.

 

[knaf]

Sorry for the cut Briztoon, but I just had to highlight this comment
”My thoughts on McCluggage are that he’s a winger, who can also play outside the contest as that first receiver, but trying to push him in to the contest or centre bounces is putting in positions where he won’t get the best out of himself. ”

I have been thinking along these lines for a while. He gets to a lot of contests but seem so stuffed when he gets there that he can’t break a tackle, has trouble keeping his feet, or accelerate away. He’s probably stuffed because he covers the most ground of any player in the team. I would like to see him more outside where he is under less physical pressure when he gets to the ball first.

 

[briztoon]

Sorry for the cut Briztoon, but I just had to highlight this comment
”My thoughts on McCluggage are that he’s a winger, who can also play outside the contest as that first receiver, but trying to push him in to the contest or centre bounces is putting in positions where he won’t get the best out of himself. ”

I have been thinking along these lines for a while. He gets to a lot of contests but seem so stuffed when he gets there that he can’t break a tackle, has trouble keeping his feet, or accelerate away. He’s probably stuffed because he covers the most ground of any player in the team. I would like to see him more outside where he is under less physical pressure when he gets to the ball first.

Never have to apologise when you’re agreeing with me.

 

[martinson]

Sorry for the cut Briztoon, but I just had to highlight this comment
”My thoughts on McCluggage are that he’s a winger, who can also play outside the contest as that first receiver, but trying to push him in to the contest or centre bounces is putting in positions where he won’t get the best out of himself. ”

I have been thinking along these lines for a while. He gets to a lot of contests but seem so stuffed when he gets there that he can’t break a tackle, has trouble keeping his feet, or accelerate away. He’s probably stuffed because he covers the most ground of any player in the team. I would like to see him more outside where he is under less physical pressure when he gets to the ball first.

Good points . One of the reason his kicking has suffered is that he seems to be regularly sucking in air by the time he gets the ball.

We need to think our way through this. He's an exceptionally damaging player if he's fresh and bursting into space but most of the time he's working into congested situations.