Autopsy Round 6, 2024: St Kilda v Western Bulldogs

[Ilovewindy]

Finishing mid-table most years is killing me. I know would probably be saying the same if was in North position, but if we hadn't traded a bunch of draft picks for average players a few years back (who have saved us from finishing bottom 4, but not good enough to get us into to the top 4), we probably would be in a similar spot to North and could be getting assistance as it seems to be handed out like its going out of fashion. In saying this we have picked up some decent young guns via late FRDPs and even in 50s with guys like Garcia. But as we have been nailing some of these later picks over last 3 years, imagine what our recruiters can do if we have a top 3-5 pick who don't turn into a McCartin or Billings. And we need this to happen before Tassie come. I'd be eyeing off what the Lions have to trade to be able to match Levi Ashcroft, and try to package their pick with ours and fight our way into a top 3-5 pick.

 

[gringo2011]

Until we get some fit players back, we dont have the cattle available to send him to Sandy.

As poor as he has been, he's still the better option than players getting equivalent in the VFL.

He's terrible this year. Why not keep Hugo in his role and bring in a player like Schoenmakers who is playing good VFL to reward form. Collard for Butler too. Arie leads our disposals and Collard our goal kicking at Sandy.



On Riley Garcia from the Dogs, everyone was bagging him but he's the best player in the VFL this season. Averaging over 35 disposals a game. We should try to lure him out for game time. He will be behind heaps at the Dogs. Powell from the Roos too.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Owens best form was as a contested beast forward. This season he's way off his best form and his disposal looks atrocious. He'd be a liability in the midfield because we are already a bomb inside 50 to a marking defender as our only strategy. We need Windy, Dow and Henry developing their craft because that will be our set up in the future alongside Steele.Owens probably high half forward with runs on ball same as Phillipou.

That’s just not true. His goal kicking is atrocious. His disposal is fine. He makes good decisions with the ball and extracts it to others. Looks pretty similar to Cripps in the way he plays.
Completely wasted forward.

 

[OxSaint]

Sandy has the bye. FFS. Our incumbents seriously get the rub of the green. No game for Hunter, Dow, Dougs, Hayes who are working their way back.

 

[gringo2011]

My thoughts;

• we won't have to tank. 12th - 14th is now realistic. But 'bottoming out' is fools gold for a team like St Kilda (ask North)
• This wan't our worst loss this season. That was v Essendon. (our self-assuring, 'we only lost them all by 12 pts total' is BS)
• We must learn to live with the idea that the AFL is rigged**, and it is engineering for us to be a 8-10th team. THis means fixtures like yesterday will be routine. (there is no way that the honchos at Moorrabbin thought we could win that)

My headache questions
- I have too many! Don't we all? We see the guys trying. We see they aren't anywhere near it.

Our fan reset

• Max King is King! Thoust shall not write off the King in cheap shots. Long live the King. God save the King!
• Our young 'stars' are not exactly stars and we do not ever start talking about them as such. The dream is over. Working class attitude is required. Pou is like a young Steve Waugh. Pretty maybe. Talented all-rounder maybe. But no good scores. A few teasers. Will be re-invented as a roleplayer. A gritty determined stalwart, that does no longer has license to develop his a repertoire of skills. He will be reduced to a functional part of the team. Same for Mitch Owens. It has already happened to poor Sharman. An elegant marking forward has been turned into a bit player utility. And he may have been outpointed in defense last night. BUt so they were they all. incl Wilkie..
• Mt Dougal Howard is required!! We need this "jack in the beanstork" character back!

**We can buckle the trend occasionally, as North did under Pagan in '96 & '99. North were simply 'not supposed' to win those. Sydney? Yep. Not North.

North bottomed out for years because they cut 15 players in a year. We'd just play kids over shit seniors. Not even tanking. Just investment in youth.

 

[g_TRAIN]

What I don’t get is if we are rebuilding why do we have players like Cordy, Bonner, Jones and Butler lining up for us last night? Bonner has been good at times but we already have Sinclair, Nas and Hill playing a similar role to him and there’s been more than a few times I’ve seen him taking kicks I’d much rather Nas be having. None of these guys are our future and they are far from helping us “ease in” youngsters. I also don’t understand why we are allergic to getting Owens into the middle of the ground now even when the game is already over. Do we really see him as a forward for his whole career now? If so it’s a massive waste.

Hoping to see a lot of these things changed next week as they are glaringly obvious stuff ups this week.

Well not that it helped last night but the thought is that you don't want to play too many kids all at once.. The best way to develop players is with support from senior blokes. Not throwing them to the wolves when they're realistically not ready.

Owens will be a gun forward when we stop starving him of opportunity. That's the position he wants to play

 

[gringo2011]

That’s just not true. His goal kicking is atrocious. His disposal is fine. He makes good decisions with the ball and extracts it to others. Looks pretty similar to Cripps in the way he plays.
Completely wasted forward.

He's having a down year where nothing about him looks particularly elite. Not sure that having him play some VFL wouldn't be better. Get him confident bashing up some GOPs.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

What is going on with Phillipou? He is averaging 12.6 disposals a game this year, playing full-time midfield.

The only top 10 pick from his draft who hasn’t signed yet. Is he seriously holding out for more money?

I think he needs a spell in the VFL and hopefully he can get his confidence back and dominate games. Can't keep gifting him games every week with those numbers.

He’s not playing full time mid.

 

[gringo2011]

Finishing mid-table most years is killing me. I know would probably be saying the same if was in North position, but if we hadn't traded a bunch of draft picks for average players a few years back (who have saved us from finishing bottom 4, but not good enough to get us into to the top 4), we probably would be in a similar spot to North and could be getting assistance as it seems to be handed out like its going out of fashion. In saying this we have picked up some decent young guns via late FRDPs and even in 50s with guys like Garcia. But as we have been nailing some of these later picks over last 3 years, imagine what our recruiters can do if we have a top 3-5 pick who don't turn into a McCartin or Billings. And we need this to happen before Tassie come. I'd be eyeing off what the Lions have to trade to be able to match Levi Ashcroft, and try to package their pick with ours and fight our way into a top 3-5 pick.

Yep, said it at the time. You don't paint over the cracks. We were hiding from stuffing up 2 consecutive rebuilds.

 

[Saintbloke]

I've seen nothing to show that Lyon is an upgrade on Ratts, and I don't think Ratts was a top coach. Everyone seems sucked into the Lyon thing and Bassat trying to turn back the clock with the return of the prodigal son who has been out of the coaching game too long IMO.

 

[akaifu]

Sandy has the bye. FFS. Our incumbents seriously get the rub of the green. No game for Hunter, Dow, Dougs, Hayes who are working their way back.

They are playing a practice match so they'll get game time

 

[D2D3]

Well not that it helped last night but the thought is that you don't want to play too many kids all at once.. The best way to develop players is with support from senior blokes. Not throwing them to the wolves when they're realistically not ready.

Owens will be a gun forward when we stop starving him of opportunity. That's the position he wants to play

Only helps when the senior players are actually good enough to prevent the kids from getting thrown to the wolves though. I see how having Wood, Webster, Crouch and Henry would help immensely. But they are out and these guys just aren’t cutting it.

 

[gringo2011]

I've seen nothing to show that Lyon is an upgrade on Ratts, and I don't think Ratts was a top coach. Everyone seems sucked into the Lyon thing and Bassat trying to turn back the clock with the return of the prodigal son who has been out of the coaching game too long IMO.

I was fully on the Lyon train but a lot of gloss is washing off this season. I think his standards behind the scenes are better and his footy department looks first class but his game plan and list are still the same issues. We are a mid table list that good coaches can get into the 8 but that stops us drafting quality so stay in the cycle. Lyon has played more youth than Ratts for a similar performance level I guess.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Only helps when the senior players are actually good enough to prevent the kids from getting thrown to the wolves though. I see how having Wood, Webster, Crouch and Henry would help immensely. But they are out and these guys just aren’t cutting it.

Yes but some of the guys you listed you may be a little harsh on.

Sure last night they were poor but Butler for example is a pretty decent player who had a good year last year.

At his best he applies elite pressure and he kicked 33 goals last year.

You can understand why he was picked.

 

[St Significant]

Midfield is our huge problem and the forward line is not only dysfunctional but kicking for goal is horrible. Simple footy skills lacking - what the hell are they training during the week? And I think the boys club of coaches may not be working. The burden of taking us to our next flag may just end up being too much for Ross Lyon in the end I'm afraid.

 

[Ads734]

What is going on with Phillipou? He is averaging 12.6 disposals a game this year, playing full-time midfield.

The only top 10 pick from his draft who hasn’t signed yet. Is he seriously holding out for more money?

I think he needs a spell in the VFL and hopefully he can get his confidence back and dominate games. Can't keep gifting him games every week with those numbers.

I would love to see his midfield stats form yesterday because I didn;t see him in there once.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

He's having a down year where nothing about him looks particularly elite. Not sure that having him play some VFL wouldn't be better. Get him confident bashing up some GOPs.

No. He is AFL quality. He needs to be on ball.
No point having him run around in circles up forward and no point him running around where talent goes to die at sandy.
Get him on ball. He has looked the best when he can find touch and make impact there like in the Collingwood game.
It’s mind boggling what we do.

Pou should have a go at getting the sheez and daicos treatment. Replace bonner at HB getting easy disposals. Finding touch seeing the game.
Owens should be on ball all game.
Jones and butler in the bin. Windy and Garcia swapping mid - forward.
Seb to the wing. Coops forward.
Stocker more mid time. Byrnes forward.

Ff- collard membrey Sharman
Hf- Higgins king Byrnes

C- Ross Steele hill
F- Marshall Owens windy

Hb - nas wilkie pou
Fb- Sinclair Cordy battle

Bench- stocker Garcia caminiti Wilson

All lines covered. Better balanced across ground.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

 

[Makaveli35]

7 best 23 players out. Battling team continuity.
3 games in 11 days.
Young & inexperienced team, who haven't played together much.
Playing an experienced team who were smashed in the media in the leadup.

We'll take some time to get it together this year, but the future is bright.

 

[thekizzler]

No. He is AFL quality. He needs to be on ball.
No point having him run around in circles up forward and no point him running around where talent goes to die at sandy.
Get him on ball. He has looked the best when he can find touch and make impact there like in the Collingwood game.
It’s mind boggling what we do.

Pou should have a go at getting the sheez and daicos treatment. Replace bonner at HB getting easy disposals. Finding touch seeing the game.
Owens should be on ball all game.
Jones and butler in the bin. Windy and Garcia swapping mid - forward.
Seb to the wing. Coops forward.
Stocker more mid time. Byrnes forward.

Ff- collard membrey Sharman
Hf- Higgins king Byrnes

C- Ross Steele hill
F- Marshall Owens windy

Hb - nas wilkie pou
Fb- Sinclair Cordy battle

Bench- stocker Garcia caminiti Wilson

All lines covered. Better balanced across ground.

Better balance across the ground?

If Stocker plays mid, who do you propose plays on Wille Rioli, Sam Powell-Pepper and either Zak Butters/Connor Rozee when resting forward?

Phillipou is also not accountable for an opposition player whatsoever at the moment. He needs to learn but in the VFL or when the season is over. Not when the season is still alive.

And it's a myth that Sheezel/Daicos are getting easy disposals. They are busting their gut to be an option for teammates.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I usually wait a few days before I post so the emotion has been removed. But that was as pea hearted an effort that I’ve seen in years.
They had:
75 more disposals
22 more tackles
74 more marks (bang on double)
There’s only one thing this comes down to: effort. We gave absolutely none. Our other losses this year have been from lack of skills, not lack of effort.
3 games in 11 days, they’ve had 3 in 12. So that’s no excuse.
These are finely tuned athletes that get paid huge money to be fit and have access to the best recovery and sports science available.
Garcia in his second game laid 20% of our total tackles. He’s going to be a ripper.
Thought Hill tried hard all night to run and create.
Wilson was good angain and he gets a pass for being a newbie.
Windy tried hard. Bonner was ok.
Watching live they murdered us on the spread. They sent one player to get the ball while the others spread, we sent 3 blokes to tackle their 1 and they waltzed it away.
Our forward line was ordinary but most of our kick ins were dumps. The few times we actually kicked to advantage it was lead out and marked. It’s up to the forwards to make the most of their opportunities. We’re not a 20 goal side. We’re a 12 goal team at best so we have to make them count.

We are devoid of leadership. We lack a player that picks up a team and says come with me. Dunno where it’s going to come from

Their marking was way better than ours.
Cooper Sharman took 2 contested marks, everyone else , and there were 5 of them, that got more than 1 was a Bulldog.

Mind you, their uncontested marking would have been higher than normal due to us kicking directly to their unmanned players.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Who recognised we were about to enter a hard rebuild when Lyon returned?

Thought it was fairly obvious he’d been given the mandate by Bassett but for PR and marketing reason the narrative was anything but the truth and for obvious reason, it’s why the majority of our fans were completely dismissive of pretty much all of the the AFL world predicting we would slide this year, some fans even thought we would rise to top 4.

The problem with PR men running a footy club is they have a job for both occasions, first the sales pitch, then the damage control. Bassetts bi-annual letters to fans seam to follow this pattern.

Well if we are in a rebuild then expect a decade of pain with Tassie coming in. The timing is so bad you couldn’t have planned it any worse. Having money to spend will mean nothing when we are in the bottom 6.
I dont think Lyon will survive the rebuild if that’s the case and we’ll in all likelihood be around 12 to 16 on the ladder for some time to come.

 

[SaintersUnite]

I sat there through the whole game on my birthday lol, I love torture.

At least I can go back to Adelaide now, and watch us play port at the oval… wait. Shit.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Sarcoidevo]

74 to 39 clangers
8 to 21 frees

Had a bit of a rant earlier but those numbers would always equate to a bad loss

Very likely this was one out of the box given our 3 previous losses against Cats Bummers & Giants were all under 8pts and we have beaten last years Premiers

Once we get a few back and injury gods give us a bit of a break think we will be back winning more than losing

Invariably sometimes a loss like this can galvanise a squad .. guess we will find out more in the coming weeks with Port / North / Hawks / Freo (in Melb)

A loss against Port puts us 2 & 5 .... but the following 3 are winnable .... and we should be getting players back by then

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Better balance across the ground?

If Stocker plays mid, who do you propose plays on Wille Rioli, Sam Powell-Pepper and either Zak Butters/Connor Rozee when resting forward?

Phillipou is also not accountable for an opposition player whatsoever at the moment. He needs to learn but in the VFL or when the season is over. Not when the season is still alive.

And it's a myth that Sheezel/Daicos are getting easy disposals. They are busting their gut to be an option for teammates.

That’s why stocker is on the bench. He isn’t mid full time but should get runs through there. Bonner Pou replaces bonner who isn’t accountable either.

It’s a hell of a lot easier to get disposals and see the game from hb than hf. Getting touches from kick ins and seeing the game from the back is a great way to get involved.