Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[BrutThough]

I'm usually pretty positive about the team but play the same inept midfield week after week is mind boggling , Owens needs time in the midfield , he can at least fight for the ball - Seb Ross just is not good enough sorry to say and needs to be played as a sub or at Sandringham.
I fully expect Dow to be brought straight into the side next week because we can't keep rolling out the same crap.
Our weak point is the midfield and until we we fix it we will be battling to beat any team.

Dow needs a big game at Sandy. He was quite underwhelming last week.

We need his attributes in the midfield but we need him coming into the side with some form as well otherwise it will just be another mid standing around watching, not making us any more competitive.

 

[ScrappyDo]

So we’re full rebuild but not playing Collard or Schoey. We drop a 23 year old Byrnes for 25 year old Paton.

We bring in a 27 year old Bonner who hasn’t missed a game.

I think you’ve got ******* rocks in your head if you think Ross isn’t playing for the now.

You do understand there were 3x first year players put there today right?

 

[puntking]

Yeh and how’s that working out?

We just kicked 7 goals against a side younger and more clearly rebuilding than us.

If he’s playing the kids, play the kids. This rebuild narrative is bullshit. He’s never done it, why the * would he start now.

1 goal 5 in a quater did Ross ask them to do that too?

 

[jaza2003]

Play the kids.

Get a top 3 draft pick.

We will **** that up as well like every other time we have had it

 

[Premium]

Ross historically has not made sweeping changes when it comes to team selection. Don’t expect 4-5 omissions. Membrey and Seb should be out based on form, but will most likely get selected again.

Ratten would most probably be getting better results.
Basset needs the sack , we are going backwards.
Playing the same midfield setup which has been getting flogged is crazy - Ross has said its won or lost in the midfield and Seb Ross is still there.

 

[phantom13]

Of course we are trying to win. Thats the whole point of this f*cking game and competition.

But we are trying to win while also getting games into kids. That doesn't mean playing them all at the same time and not caring what happens. It also doesn't mean getting rid of any older player, including those who are playing well and doing what is asked of it, for any player who is younger for them. It's like people forget we need senior players in the side to help develop and take the pressure off the young kids finding their way. Or that if a kid is still struggling with some aspect of their at the lower, throwing them into the seniors is unlikely to be best thing for the development.

Also love the use of 'eternal optimists' as some sort of insult as if actually looking at the game or team selection with balance and reason is a bad thing and throwing a hissy fit every time we lose is some sort of badge of honour.

No hissy fit here, just reality.

We’re not winning games whilst making sure Riley Bonner and co keep getting games so really we’re not doing either thing.

Great progress.

 

[puntking]

Of course we are trying to win. Thats the whole point of this f*cking game and competition.

But we are trying to win while also getting games into kids. That doesn't mean playing them all at the same time and not caring what happens. It also doesn't mean getting rid of any older player, including those who are playing well and doing what is asked of it, for any player who is younger for them. It's like people forget we need senior players in the side to help develop and take the pressure off the young kids finding their way. Or that if a kid is still struggling with some aspect of their at the lower, throwing them into the seniors is unlikely to be best thing for the development.

Also love the use of 'eternal optimists' as some sort of insult as if actually looking at the game or team selection with balance and reason is a bad thing and throwing a hissy fit every time we lose is some sort of badge of honour.

Great post, some people can see it, do we want to be the same old saints? Only 2nd year into Rtb and a total overhaul of footy dept and the players will be next, this is a 5 year plan too many people think we under achieving well maybe a little but we definitely over achieved last year

 

[phantom13]

You do understand there were 3x first year players put there today right?

And another 3 fit ones not playing.

If we’re gonna ****ing kick 7 goals and lose may as well play them all.

 

[BrutThough]

No hissy fit here, just reality.

We’re not winning games whilst making sure Riley Bonner and co keep getting games so really we’re not doing either thing.

Great progress.

Using someone who played well today as the basis of your criticism points more to it being a hissy fit than a comment based in reality.

 

[Premium]

Dow needs a big game at Sandy. He was quite underwhelming last week.

We need his attributes in the midfield but we need him coming into the side with some form as well otherwise it will just be another mid standing around watching, not making us any more competitive.

After watching Ross , Garcia , Hastie I think he is a better option.
I don't want to pin point them because there were a fair few passengers but the have to make some changes to the midfield.

 

[phantom13]

Great post, some people can see it, do we want to be the same old saints? Only 2nd year into Rtb and a total overhaul of footy dept and the players will be next, this is a 5 year plan too many people think we under achieving well maybe a little but we definitely over achieved last year

What I saw today was the epitomie of the same old saints.

5 more years we reckon? Well if we’re bottoming out we definitely wouldn’t wanna have ALL the kids in at once would we.

Is it a soft reboot or a full rebuild? The cult of Ross probably should decide before we piss away another 5 years doing neither thibg

 

[phantom13]

Using someone who played well today as the basis of your criticism points more to it being a hissy fit than a comment based in reality.

Bonners been okay to good all season, that’s not really the point though is it.

He’s 27 and we’re in a 5 year (maybe?) rebuild. Do we have a kid that can kick and plays back that might be more useful in 5 years that if we’re gonna lose anyway might make more sense to play?

We brought him in as “depth” and he’s played every game, but we’re rebuilding or rebooting or whatever. Seems to be in direct opposition to the whole plan.

 

[ScrappyDo]

And another 3 fit ones not playing.

If we’re gonna ******* kick 7 goals and lose may as well play them all.

Going the full tank wrecks culture. The exact thing they are trying to build. If that actually happened you'd be complaining about it in a heartbeat anyway.

 

[BrutThough]

After watching Ross , Garcia , Hastie I think he is a better option.
I don't want to pin point them because there were a fair few passengers but the have to make some changes to the midfield.

Garcia is playing a different role, but agree on the others.

 

[Sully111]

Watched Lyon's presser

He can bitch about the use of runners all he wants, but if we're a well coached side, he wouldn't have to pull rabbits out of hats on game day all the time.

I know great coaching during the game is a thing... but fmd.... we look appalling.

I feel like the players have just lost their mojo.

The coaches need to shoulder some blame.

I'm not saying I want Lyon gone... but something isn't right.

I really hope Goddard and Harvey are moved on at season's end.

 

[puntking]

What I saw today was the epitomie of the same old saints.

5 more years we reckon? Well if we’re bottoming out we definitely wouldn’t wanna have ALL the kids in at once would we.

Is it a soft reboot or a full rebuild? The cult of Ross probably should decide before we piss away another 5 years doing neither thibg

Not sure where the confusion is? U can’t play all kids or end up like north, we need to blood kids with still enough old players around to drive standards, name a better coach than what we have I’ll wait

 

[BrutThough]

Bonners been okay to good all season, that’s not really the point though is it.

He’s 27 and we’re in a 5 year (maybe?) rebuild. Do we have a kid that can kick and plays back that might be more useful in 5 years that if we’re gonna lose anyway might make more sense to play?

We brought him in as “depth” and he’s played every game, but we’re rebuilding or rebooting or whatever. Seems to be in direct opposition to the whole plan.

The point is that if you walked away today and one of your main takeaways was playing Bonner is an issue, then I'm either very confused on what you watched or we are in a great position if he is top worry.

 

[phantom13]

Going the full tank wrecks culture. The exact thing they are trying to build. If that actually happened you'd be complaining about it in a heartbeat anyway.

I’m not complaining about losing. Plus how do you reckon the “culture” is going kicking 7 goals in a loss to the hawks? I’m tipping it’s not great.

Not sure where the confusion is? U can’t play all kids or end up like north, we need to blood kids with still enough old players around to drive standards, name a better coach than what we have I’ll wait

North who will almost certainly go past us in the next year or 2.

Win enough games to finish 10-12, miss the top end talent in the draft and have no FAs wanting to come cause our best players are B grade kids.

Smart.

Seasons pretty well cooked now so surely we’re just running the kids through to get a look? Or do we keep persisting with Seb Ross and co? Who ****ing knows.

 

[NasiahToKing]

 

[phantom13]

The point is that if you walked away today and one of your main takeaways was playing Bonner is an issue, then I'm either very confused on what you watched or we are in a great position if he is top worry.

My issue is that we took him into the team and continue to play him when we’re losing to a bottom 3 team instead of playing a kid who can defend just as well as he can.

The “soft rebuild” crew are the confusing ones. Every selection decision makes perfect sense cause we’re trying to win, and failing, but also trying to develop the kids, by not playing them.

Also worth noting that Bonner keeps playing well cause he’s a loose backman that we feed the footy, I’d get 25 playing his role ffs.

 

[tomjoad]

Yep and Hastie had Zero tackles but he has an excuse.

At this point I'd say bring Sharman in for King

Hahaha. Wow Cairnsman, we have it in writing now
In all honesty it couldn't possibly be any worse really. At least Sharman moves, he may be your Titanic, but at least the Titanic was able to leave the docks.
King is just a giant bollard holding everything back.

 

[beside the seaside]

So we’re full rebuild but not playing Collard or Schoey. We drop a 23 year old Byrnes for 25 year old Paton.

We bring in a 27 year old Bonner who hasn’t missed a game.

I think you’ve got ******* rocks in your head if you think Ross isn’t playing for the now.

Ross said himself we're trying to play kids and win at the same time. So yes he is playing for the now.

 

[BrutThough]

Watched Lyon's presser

He can bitch about the use of runners all he wants, but if we're a well coached side, he wouldn't have to pull rabbits out of hats on game day all the time.

I know great coaching during the game is a thing... but fmd.... we look appalling.

I feel like the players have just lost their mojo.

The coaches need to shoulder some blame.

I'm not saying I want Lyon gone... but something isn't right.

I really hope Goddard and Harvey are moved on at season's end.

We definitely aren't a well coached, or at least well prepared side at the moment.

I dont know whether to give the coaches credit for finding ways in game to get us back into it and seem competitive, or be extremely annoyed that they cant seem to do anything during the week that seems to trouble the opposition from the first bounce.

 

[Sully111]

We definitely aren't a well coached, or at least well prepared side at the moment.

I dont know whether to give the coaches credit for finding ways in game to get us back into it and seem competitive, or be extremely annoyed that they cant seem to do anything during the week that seems to trouble the opposition from the first bounce.

Yep

Ross has always been a great game day coach. We're having to rely on that far too much to keep us in games.

It'll give us the odd sugar hit but it's taking us nowhere long term.

 

[BrutThough]

My issue is that we took him into the team and continue to play him when we’re losing to a bottom 3 team instead of playing a kid who can defend just as well as he can.

The “soft rebuild” crew are the confusing ones. Every selection decision makes perfect sense cause we’re trying to win, and failing, but also trying to develop the kids, by not playing them.

Also worth noting that Bonner keeps playing well cause he’s a loose backman that we feed the footy, I’d get 25 playing his role ffs.

Who says Arie can defend as well as Bonner though? Obviously not the coaches whose public feedback on him as highlighted that's what he needs to improve on before he gets a look in a senior level.

I also don't think most posters think every decision is a perfect one. It just happens that the few you brought up in that comment are some of the more explainable ones based on formed at either level. It also possible to develop kids at either level - playing Collard or Shoey at Sandy doesn't mean we aren't developing them. It seems like flawed logic we have to play them all at AFL level at once for that to happen.