mickeyjuice
Cancelled
I don't think anyone's denying that. However, he seems to have taken one step, that showed he knew what was going on, then didn't follow through. Worst of all possible worlds.
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Rumours that Doc Reid has called it a day (Doc Larkins)
- Thread starter Adz
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I don't think anyone's denying that. However, he seems to have taken one step, that showed he knew what was going on, then didn't follow through. Worst of all possible worlds.
neutralguy
Club Legend
- Aug 2, 2013
- 1,306
- 1,764
- AFL Club
- Sydney
I understand what you are saying entirely and wholeheartedly agree that others would make vastly different decisions than some. I speak for my morals and I would not hesitate to protect a fellow soldier from harm. myself (a corporal at the time) and another corporal were at a unit function on one occasion. We walked into a room and found an officer basically demanding that a female private give him oral sex. We removed the female (against the officers orders) then informed the officer he was under arrest and went straight to the CSM and informed him of what happened. That officer was later court martialled and kicked out of the Army after a 12 month sentence in the MCE (military correction establishment). It truly is expected of people with a postion (even as low as a corporal) to display integrity and do the right thing. Some would of walked away we never that's the difference in people.
eldorado
Thought Ninja
- Moderator
- #154
You've just triggered another thing I was wondering about. Cheers for that
Those of you who studied VCE Psychology (I teach it) might remember learning about the social experiments; someone mentioned Milgram earlier on this board, and there was also the famous Stanford Prison experiment, and also experiments on conformity, where people gave answers they thought were wrong in order to agree with the group.
An important factor in resisting wrongful obedience or conformity was the presence of even a single ally, even in a complete hierarchy of compliance.
It seems as long as we have just SOME support, (even one person) we are more likely to act on our internal drives rather than follow the group.
I wonder if there were any other voices of doubt at Essendon apart from Reid, or whether was truly the lone voice? Even one other voice, and the situation may have been different...
- Banned
- #155
You are right. Givney has a major problem about not elevating the warfarin affair.
- Banned
- #156
Whether he has breached medical laws will be one for the lawyers. He has surely exploded the medical code of ethics regardless.
Dank moved on to Essendon because our doctor David Givney didn't do the right thing. Reid was worse than Givney, at least he shut it down. You should understand that Dank's next stop could have been the Swans (or insert appropriate club name). The likes of Givney and Reid should be removed from their respective codes forever. The public must come before clubs.
Reid's failures could have imperilled any of the other 17 clubs in the AFL. Luckily for those clubs, Dank as been caught out before he reached your club. Supporters of Reid should remember that.
He did do something about it, they continued to go behind his back, then the program was stopped.
I say well done Dr Reid.
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
While true, it has to be remembered that Reid was not a young, newbie Doctor. He was a veteran who surely has stared-down Sheedy and others hundreds of times when they have wanted a player training, playing, or being declared fit.
He has presumably told James Hird the player that he is not fit for selection.
He also isn't out-on-his-own and isolated. He shares a practice with fellow club doctors and is very much connected to a support network who would have had his back.
He is equipped with the experience and reputation to make difficult choices.
If someone in Reid's circumstances refuses to act, then we can have little expectation that any Doctor would act.
Melbourne Football Club?
Except it was a supposedly professional environment in which the mission was to win a football premiership. The end didn't justify the means. I'm not even sure resigning over professional differences would've absolved him of culpability.
Armchair Critic
Cancelled
- Feb 8, 2013
- 9,566
- 11,241
- AFL Club
- Sydney
Is it medical negligence if the players had legal prescriptions to receive the treatment.
DudleyB
Club Legend
- Apr 29, 2013
- 1,164
- 1,641
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Banned
- #162
There has to be some harm/damage first before anyone can talk about the law.
But if there is - then its very clear cut that the Doc has breached his duty of care.
Apparently his professional indemnity insurance company has already upped his premiums.
Hopefully his insurance doesn't cover him - because his negligence is breathtaking and severe.
Why?
Because all the little coot had to do to reduce the players risks was make one single phone call to ASADA which he failed to do.
Now hes trying to be all tough like a little Joe Pesci small time gangster all jacked up on testosterone.
He deserves to go down very very hard for this.
But if there is - then its very clear cut that the Doc has breached his duty of care.
Apparently his professional indemnity insurance company has already upped his premiums.
Hopefully his insurance doesn't cover him - because his negligence is breathtaking and severe.
Why?
Because all the little coot had to do to reduce the players risks was make one single phone call to ASADA which he failed to do.
Now hes trying to be all tough like a little Joe Pesci small time gangster all jacked up on testosterone.
He deserves to go down very very hard for this.
If Essendon was going over the club doctor's head for prescriptions, surely Reid would've asked himself WTF am I doing here?
We know what it is like to be a whistleblower in the code. It can back fire to the point that you end up a pariah as you say.
If we had not stood up for what we believed was the ethical thing to do, my son would not have suffered
You are so right, Eldorado...turn a blind eye, everyone else does.
As long as the surface of the cess pool appears calm, what does it matter?
Armchair Critic
Cancelled
- Feb 8, 2013
- 9,566
- 11,241
- AFL Club
- Sydney
Well AOD can only be prescribed by authorised prescribers I am pretty sure
tigerfan11
Cancelled
- Mar 9, 2010
- 732
- 520
- AFL Club
- Richmond
DudleyB
Club Legend
- Apr 29, 2013
- 1,164
- 1,641
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Banned
- #168
But the Doc was terribly happy to take the positive side of his association with Hird.
The perks. The profile. The respect . The esteem The business connections. The positive reputational factors.
You cant lap up the good and be first in line for tickets and tracksuits and match day passes and singing the song but then be last in queue for any negatives to come from that association.
Thats why I have no sympathy for him.
If people want to admire a Dr - go and look for one who does charity work and not-for pay work in disadvantaged communities and developing countries. If you want a selfless Dr there are plenty out there with no profile if you look hard enough and Dr Reid is NOT one of them.
The perks. The profile. The respect . The esteem The business connections. The positive reputational factors.
You cant lap up the good and be first in line for tickets and tracksuits and match day passes and singing the song but then be last in queue for any negatives to come from that association.
Thats why I have no sympathy for him.
If people want to admire a Dr - go and look for one who does charity work and not-for pay work in disadvantaged communities and developing countries. If you want a selfless Dr there are plenty out there with no profile if you look hard enough and Dr Reid is NOT one of them.
Armchair Critic
Cancelled
- Feb 8, 2013
- 9,566
- 11,241
- AFL Club
- Sydney
As in WADA code banned or illegal.
Without experiencing the club environment, I concede it might be possible that Doc Reid had the wool completely pulled over his eyes for months on end. But that makes it difficult to account for his ongoing service alongside those who hoodwinked him when the details became apparent early this year.
jenny61_99
Premium Platinum
If it were prescribed by him? No. If dank has doctor shopped five different doctors to get said prescriptions and he hasn't questioned where the prescriptions came from, then yes. Red flags all over the shop and nobody said wait, is this right?
tigerfan11
Cancelled
- Mar 9, 2010
- 732
- 520
- AFL Club
- Richmond
yes as in WADA banned. purely in the context of being professional athletes etc.
mickeyjuice
Cancelled
Cracking post.
Armchair Critic
Cancelled
- Feb 8, 2013
- 9,566
- 11,241
- AFL Club
- Sydney
I agree with that, he deserves to be punished by the AFL as he has been negligent in relation to his medical practices within WADA code.
neutralguy
Club Legend
- Aug 2, 2013
- 1,306
- 1,764
- AFL Club
- Sydney
This is what I was reffering to when I said reid was present when players were given injections of substances he had not approved.
Copied from the AFL charge sheet pdf.
"
81.
In the period from 12 to 15 April 2012, three players were treated at Beechmont Natural
Clinic, 32C Jardine Road, Lower Beechmont, Queensland. The invoices indicate that
those players received injections of Traumeel, Vitamin B12 an
d Actovegin.
82.
Reid was present on 15 April 2012 when two of the three players were treated, yet none
of these substances were approved by Reid, in accordance with the Protocol, or otherwise.
83.
Notwithstanding that by reason of his presence during this treatme
nt of players Reid
became aware that players were receiving treatment in breach of the Protocol, Reid failed
to recognise and properly respond to this indication that Robinson and Dank may have
been breaching the Protocol in other respects and that therefo
re the supplements program
potentially posed a risk to the players’ health, welfare and safety."
That to me should be enough to prove he did the wrong thing, he should of stopped that on the spot.
Copied from the AFL charge sheet pdf.
"
81.
In the period from 12 to 15 April 2012, three players were treated at Beechmont Natural
Clinic, 32C Jardine Road, Lower Beechmont, Queensland. The invoices indicate that
those players received injections of Traumeel, Vitamin B12 an
d Actovegin.
82.
Reid was present on 15 April 2012 when two of the three players were treated, yet none
of these substances were approved by Reid, in accordance with the Protocol, or otherwise.
83.
Notwithstanding that by reason of his presence during this treatme
nt of players Reid
became aware that players were receiving treatment in breach of the Protocol, Reid failed
to recognise and properly respond to this indication that Robinson and Dank may have
been breaching the Protocol in other respects and that therefo
re the supplements program
potentially posed a risk to the players’ health, welfare and safety."
That to me should be enough to prove he did the wrong thing, he should of stopped that on the spot.
