Rumours that Doc Reid has called it a day (Doc Larkins)

[Armchair Critic]

If it were prescribed by him? No. If dank has doctor shopped five different doctors to get said prescriptions and he hasn't questioned where the prescriptions came from, then yes. Red flags all over the shop and nobody said wait, is this right?

Do you know he hasn't.

 

[Cylon7]

I can only take you at your word, but I cannot believe a decision like would not cause massive internal stress, conflict, and deep questioning of one's own allegiances, priorities and morality, particularly with close friends involved.

All I'm saying is that the situation he was placed in left him only with two completely unpleasant choices.

You say you felt for him and empathised with his situation.

I too have tried very hard to maintain balance, compassion and understanding for Dr Reid but I am losing the battle.

He is a doctor, held to higher principles through his education and Hippocratic Oath. His responsibilities were first to the medical well being of his players. Do you bow to peer pressure or your mate's feelings when you see young men being injected, when according to his letter he was aware of the seriousness of the situation.

I didn't mean to snap at you but my disillusionment springs from the fact that another AFL doctor did something to my son and was not held accountable. So every word uttered about compassion, responsibilities and penalties is especially painful.

 

[eldorado]

You say you felt for him and empathised with his situation.

.

And I do.

People placed in impossible situations do not always act flawlessly, as much as though those of us who have not been in those situations would like them to, or as much as we believe that we would have acted differently in the same situation.

Empathy doesn't mean I agree with his actions, only that I am aware of the powerful forces that the situation can impart on us...

 

[BusterBob]

I understand what you are saying entirely and wholeheartedly agree that others would make vastly different decisions than some. I speak for my morals and I would not hesitate to protect a fellow soldier from harm. myself (a corporal at the time) and another corporal were at a unit function on one occasion. We walked into a room and found an officer basically demanding that a female private give him oral sex. We removed the female (against the officers orders) then informed the officer he was under arrest and went straight to the CSM and informed him of what happened. That officer was later court martialled and kicked out of the Army after a 12 month sentence in the MCE (military correction establishment). It truly is expected of people with a postion (even as low as a corporal) to display integrity and do the right thing. Some would of walked away we never that's the difference in people.

It's hard to challenge people in authority over you, and maybe especially so in the military. You two are heroes.

 

[mickeyjuice]

Without experiencing the club environment, I concede it might be possible that Doc Reid had the wool completely pulled over his eyes for months on end. But that makes it difficult to account for his ongoing service alongside those who hoodwinked him when the details became apparent early this year.

It is even less likely that anyone in and around an AFL club environment (especially in his position) could successfully have something like this kept from them than the idea that Sarah was a hoax and that could be kept secret.

 

[jenny61_99]

Do you know he hasn't.

Nope. But I suspect we wouldn't be in this situation if he'd questioned what the hell dank was doing doctor shopping. And if he didn't know dank was doctor shopping? Then he clearly wasn't in control of the program.

 

[Albert Ross]

Is it medical negligence if the players had legal prescriptions to receive the treatment.

What about if you are in an environment where it is highly likely your players will be receiving surgery at some point? Would you need to keep adequate medical records to tell the surgeon what was in the player's system?

Or how about injecting a player with a painkiller but not asking what he had taken that day? Or not making yourself aware so that you could check possible side-effects. Everytime he jabbed a player at quarter time without knowing what else they were taking he was rolling a dice.

 

[Ron The Bear]

And I do.

People placed in impossible situations do not always act flawlessly, as much as though those of us who have not been in those situations would like them to, or as much as we believe that we would have acted differently in the same situation.

Empathy doesn't mean I agree with his actions, only that I am aware of the powerful forces that the situation can impart on us...

Some of us cheated on a Year 12 maths "option" assignment, worth 5% of overall mark. Pressed for time, we'd all copied the same student's workings, complete with mistakes. While about to be interrogated, we made a pact not to admit anything. One by one we were called in and questioned, then sent out a back door. Last in the queue, I steadfastly maintained the 'not guilty' line, unaware that everyone else had squealed. Not only had I cheated, I stood alone as a liar.

You choose which principles to abide by and live with the consequences.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Nope. But I suspect we wouldn't be in this situation if he'd questioned what the hell dank was doing doctor shopping. And if he didn't know dank was doctor shopping? Then he clearly wasn't in control of the program.

I am not talking about in regards to the program though.I have already admitted he is guilty of being negligent in that regard.

 

[BusterBob]

Some of us cheated on a Year 12 maths "option" assignment, worth 5% of overall mark. Pressed for time, we'd all copied the same student's workings, complete with mistakes. While about to be interrogated, we made a pact not to admit anything. One by one we were called in and questioned, then sent out a back door. Last in the queue, when my turn came I was unaware that everyone else had squealed, and steadfastly maintained the 'not guilty' line; not only had I cheated, I stood alone as a liar.

You choose which principles to abide by and live with the consequences.

And when you're a doctor there are principles to abide by that the whole profession signs up for, at least that's the ideal. The core of the doctor-patient relationship is that a patient must be able to trust his or her doctor to do their professional best for their patient. Sounds like in a club environment that core relationship gets muddied due to other considerations/pressures: i.e. what's in the best interests of the wider playing group or the club.

 

[eldorado]

Some of us cheated on a Year 12 maths "option" assignment, worth 5% of overall mark. Pressed for time, we'd all copied the same student's workings, complete with mistakes. While about to be interrogated, we made a pact not to admit anything. One by one we were called in and questioned, then sent out a back door. Last in the queue, I steadfastly maintained the 'not guilty' line, unaware that everyone else had squealed. Not only had I cheated, I stood alone as a liar.

You choose which principles to abide by and live with the consequences.

I'm not really sure if this post supports my point, or is attempting to contradict it.

The main thing I got from it was that you cheated, knew that you cheated, and then staunchly maintained the lie of innocence when those around you told the truth.

So, maybe you have some first hand experience of the pressures that can contribute to people making less-than-perfect moral choices?

I'm not apologising for him, he should have done more...but I'm just coming at it from a social psychology perspective. Much of this whole saga, from Reid, to Hird, to Mxett and a few others here, has been genuinely fascinating if you are interested in human social behaviour.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I'm not really sure if this post supports my point, or is attempting to contradict it.

Supports it. The stakes are vastly higher, but the Doc chose his own destiny.

 

[_Me_]

ego only kept him at essendon not money
could have walked away with no probs

he was best mates with hird and evans and wanted to cover up their crap

 

[tigerfan11]

If it were prescribed by him? No. If dank has doctor shopped five different doctors to get said prescriptions and he hasn't questioned where the prescriptions came from, then yes. Red flags all over the shop and nobody said wait, is this right?

just in relation to the bolded part jenny, i said in another post that if he was prescribing (what turned out to be) banned substances in the context of the WADA code as it applies to professional sportsmen etc, then i think he would be guilty. could definitely be a breach of duty of care.

 

[PieBeast]

AOD can be prescribed and used legally though.

A small number of Essendon officials last year believed that having drugs prescribed by a doctor and then supplied by a compounding pharmacist meant the World Anti-Doping Agency's ban on substances not approved for human use no longer applied.

Basic internet checks reveal this belief to be unfounded, with the US Anti-Doping Agency's webpage warning athletes not to source drugs from compounding pharmacists, even when they have a therapeutic-use exemption to use a banned product. To use a substance banned by WADA, an athlete requires a therapeutic-use exemption from their national anti-doping authority.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-in-doctor-shopping-to-beat-ban-20130722-2qf3x.html

Read and learn

Well AOD can only be prescribed by authorised prescribers I am pretty sure

and stop making shit up.

 

[Flynn2Little]

...why is everyone retiring and stepping down if nothing wrong was done at the EFC?

 

[Albert Ross]

...why is everyone retiring and stepping down if nothing wrong was done at the EFC?

Coincidence

 

[Armchair Critic]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-in-doctor-shopping-to-beat-ban-20130722-2qf3x.html

Read and learn



and stop making shit up.

Maybe you should read the whole thread

And further to that tell me how I am making shit up
http://www.tga.gov.au/hp/access.htm

 

[PieBeast]

Maybe you should read the whole thread

And further to that tell me how I am making shit up
http://www.tga.gov.au/hp/access.htm

Dr Reid was in position to prescribe AOD.
Sourcing banned substances for athletes from compounding chemists requires an exemption from anti-doping authority.

You're making a fool of yourself, again.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Dr Reid was in position to prescribe AOD.
Sourcing banned substances for athletes from compounding chemists requires an exemption from anti-doping authority.

You're making a fool of yourself, again.

I have already said he is guilty of negligence under WADA code, I am talking about a medical ethics standard.

It is you who is looking like a fool

 

[PieBeast]

I have already said he is guilty of negligence under WADA code, I am talking about a medical ethics standard.

It is you who is looking like a fool

You were trying to mitigate Reid's culpability by suggesting that sourcing AOD from compounding chemists makes it legit for Essendon.
You've also suggested Reid wasn't authorised to prescribe it.

Both of those statements are blatantly wrong.

ciao stubborn time waster

 

[Armchair Critic]

You were trying to mitigate Reid's culpability by suggesting that sourcing AOD from compounding chemists makes it legit for Essendon.
You've also suggested Reid wasn't authorised to prescribe it.

Both of those statements are blatantly wrong.

ciao stubborn time waster

Ok mate , couldn't be bothered to go back and read my posts and the discussion that was being had.

I have done neither of those things.

1. I believe Reid is guilty of negligence in a sporting sense not a medical ethics sense.

2. I don't know if Reid is authorised to prescribe AOD. Do you.

3. You are a arrogant knob

 

[Cylon7]

And I do.

People placed in impossible situations do not always act flawlessly, as much as though those of us who have not been in those situations would like them to, or as much as we believe that we would have acted differently in the same situation.

Empathy doesn't mean I agree with his actions, only that I am aware of the powerful forces that the situation can impart on us...

I accept that entirely - people aren't perfect.
I would forgive them entirely - just as my son would if they had the courage and integrity to step forward and apologise and make amends.

But in this sport there is a horrible tendency to gang up and bully and do whatever it takes. It extends from the top to the bottom. It extends also to the media.

Their actions have caused an innocent person's future to be ruined.

So when I hear the words legend and courage bandied about, it sickens me.

 

[Westy Bogan]

So let me get this straight....

AFL say he wont be charged if he steps down...

Gets charged and he says now famously "F... them" All of the Essendon cult rejoice

Nek Minnut

Calls it a day

 

[the conch]

I'm not really sure if this post supports my point, or is attempting to contradict it.

The main thing I got from it was that you cheated, knew that you cheated, and then staunchly maintained the lie of innocence when those around you told the truth.

So, maybe you have some first hand experience of the pressures that can contribute to people making less-than-perfect moral choices?

I'm not apologising for him, he should have done more...but I'm just coming at it from a social psychology perspective. Much of this whole saga, from Reid, to Hird, to Mxett and a few others here, has been genuinely fascinating if you are interested in human social behaviour.

I feel Hird for example, like Lance Armstrong, may score a little more than most of us on some of the psychopathology measures:
Psychopathic Personality Inventory: Factors and Subscales[1]
PPI–1: Fearless dominancePPI–2: Impulsive AntisocialityColdheartedness

• Social influence
• Fearlessness
• Stress immunity

• Machiavellian egocentricity
• Rebellious nonconformity
• Blame externalization
• Carefree nonplanfulness

• Coldheartedness