Injury Russell your feathers - discuss all things high performance; injury lists, Marvel surface, curse from the gods and Andrew Russell

[Opium]

How do you know that the surgeon wasn't one of the best ?, he obviously made an error, I'm sure that if he had a known history of continually doing things like that he wouldn't even have a position as a surgeon. I fail to see your point. You expected the club to have foreseen the possibility of it happening?

Clearly not the best if you can't work out which way to put screws into a bone. The facts are our injuries over a sustained period haven't been good and it needs addressing.

 

[Arr0w]

How do you know that the surgeon wasn't one of the best ?, he obviously made an error, I'm sure that if he had a known history of continually doing things like that he wouldn't even have a position as a surgeon. I fail to see your point. You expected the club to have foreseen the possibility of it happening?

Russell or an appointed delegate should have been in the operating theatre

 

[gab213]

Clearly not the best if you can't work out which way to put screws into a bone.

I would put it to you that the club would have the players' surgeries performed at the best private hospitals which in turn
have quality surgeons operating there. Nobody can foresee a mistake and if you think any person no matter how proficient they are in their field is immune to making a mistake then I really don't know what to say, so I have no further comment on this apart from I don't see the relevance of this to our performances right now.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Nothing new here, it was rumoured to be the case when Voss came on board that the belief was the group as a whole weren't fit enough

So is that a knock on the high performance manager at the time (Russell) or Voss stepping into an area he shouldn't be interfering in?

 

[JustOneTime]

We are in a window to win a flag. Everything right now is 'critical' in terms of going well to help us win that flag or we miss out in what is proving to be a very even field. The draft has done its job and 6 different teams this year will look like flag favourites.

It's nothing personal. Russell needs to be held accountable for slowing us down. Regardless if it is personally his fault as he is accountable for high performance overall.

Having said that, I'd give him this second half of the season. If our players get on the park and stay on the park, then good on him and he stays. But equally, in a cut throat industry, if key players break down at the pointy end with soft tissue injuries,. Get him out end of season.

 

[Arr0w]

So is that a knock on the high performance manager at the time (Russell) or Voss stepping into an area he shouldn't be interfering in?

Who here really knows, but prior to Voss arriving our results were below par and many of us had concerns with the level of fitness as a whole and so did Voss

The same names have dominated the injury ward thoughout their careers, Martin, Marchbank, Gov, Cuners, Williams

If you want to blame high performance for ACLs, then every club is guilty of substandard strategies

 

[slashin_velvet]

Who here really knows, but prior to Voss arriving our results were below par and many of us had concerns with the level of fitness as a whole and so did Voss

The same names have dominated the injury ward thoughout their careers, Martin, Marchbank, Gov, Cuners, Williams

If you want to blame high performance for ACLs, then every club is guilty of substandard strategies

I've never criticised Russell for ACLs - I've been incredibly consistent that:
1) we anticipate he absorbs a large chunk of our soft cap;
2) we havent seemed to have significantly stronger injury minimisation or better fitness than our opposition;
As a result, I would challenge if we are getting value for money from the role.

Whilst we can't know all of the in's and out's of the clubs program - its pretty damning if you accept Voss' position that there were concerns on the level of fitness in the team - Russell had been the high performance manager for 2-3 years at this stage, which we have to accept is long enough to have made the appropriate changes to the program and get the fitness to AFL standards.

 

[Arr0w]

I've never criticised Russell for ACLs - I've been incredibly consistent that:
1) we anticipate he absorbs a large chunk of our soft cap;

Without knowing, it's likely that he is being paid well, no debating that. But a fitness department is made up of more than one person, so none of us know how that compares to other teams

2) we havent seemed to have significantly stronger injury minimisation or better fitness than our opposition;

Not sure I completely agree with this. Remove the perennial injury prone and that tells a different story, so too tge back end of last year where we had a healthier list than most finals sides

Fitness wise, the numbers stack up week to week compared to our opposition

As a result, I would challenge if we are getting value for money from the role.

That could still be the case, but comments like "we couldn't do any worse" is somewhat wishful thinking without offering up valid alternatives

Whilst we can't know all of the in's and out's of the clubs program - its pretty damning if you accept Voss' position that there were concerns on the level of fitness in the team - Russell had been the high performance manager for 2-3 years at this stage, which we have to accept is long enough to have made the appropriate changes to the program and get the fitness to AFL standards.

We have no idea as to the past hierarchy, who has the final decision, who wasn't remaining in their lane

Rumours were string and consistent that Russell was being overruled, players forced to return underdone

I know for a fact that we have been way more conservative with rehab, is that a better approach with initial high workloads? No idea

So for me, the same questions stand, who is a better alternative and setting aside the injury prone, would the injuries reduce

I have no idea, but wouldn't concern me if a change was made

 

[CCurnow3votes]

We are in a window to win a flag. Everything right now is 'critical' in terms of going well to help us win that flag or we miss out in what is proving to be a very even field. The draft has done its job and 6 different teams this year will look like flag favourites.

It's nothing personal. Russell needs to be held accountable for slowing us down. Regardless if it is personally his fault as he is accountable for high performance overall.

Having said that, I'd give him this second half of the season. If our players get on the park and stay on the park, then good on him and he stays. But equally, in a cut throat industry, if key players break down at the pointy end with soft tissue injuries,. Get him out end of season.

Who would you replace him with & why?

 

[RedFury]

Honestly the number of people in this world who can't grasp the basic difference between a bad decision and a decision that was quite possibly correct based on the information available at the time but had unforeseen negative outcomes, it never ceases to a amaze me. Either you have a crystal ball or you're incompetent in this world.

I'm not just talking about this thread but in general really.

 

[JustOneTime]

Who would you replace him with & why?

Would let the season play out as i said above. Then basically go to the market to see who they could get. Not unsimilar to finding a new head coach.

Bolton got sacked at Carlton, mostly for playing inexperienced kids and getting games into them. The club gave him that direction and he followed that direction and then got sacked for it because of losses. It was unfair on him but he was ultimately accountable. Doesnt mean Bolton is crap or could not be head coach again. I suspect he is doing a very good job helping Mcrae right now.

If Russell falls that way it doesnt mean he is no good. It means the circumstances at Carlton didnt work out and its worth the club trying a new/different angle to see for a different result.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Blues’ investigation into raft of soft-tissues finds “unfortunate” circumstances

“I think we’ve had four or five hamstrings, we’ve been most concerned about that.”

www.sen.com.au

Can't ask for much more than this. At least the club has told us they acknowledge it as an issue and are trying to establish why.

The only counter here is that if the bad times are bad luck, was our good run last year good luck, or good management?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I can tell you categorically that both Walsh and Curnow have sought external medical treatment to resolve long-term injury.

Curnow's was a few years ago in order to get his knee right. Walsh was earlier this year in order to correct his back.

In both instances player informed club, club was not happy, but player sought treatment anyway and got the desired result.

This is soooooo agenderised. In-house club drs and fitness personnel aren't specialised surgeons. External help and specialists are every day occurrences.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Clearly not the best if you can't work out which way to put screws into a bone. The facts are our injuries over a sustained period haven't been good and it needs addressing.

You have poor understanding if you think the screws were literally put in backwards. Cam Norsworthy. In fact Charlie's surgery was done correctly but the holes in the patella destabilized the bone and formed a weak point that required reinforcing. Seriously, people actually think it was something as simple as derpy screws da wrong way? Farking hell. The surgeon would've publically had the pants sued off him. He didn't. The surgery had a very unlucky side effect.

 

[ArseClown]

You have poor understanding if you think the screws were literally put in backwards. Cam Norsworthy. In fact Charlie's surgery was done correctly but the holes in the patella destabilized the bone and formed a weak point that required reinforcing. Seriously, people actually think it was something as simple as derpy screws da wrong way? Farking hell. The surgeon would've publically had the pants sued off him. He didn't. The surgery had a very unlucky side effect.

100%. I mean how can you put screws in the wrong way anyway. Everyone knows it's righty tighty, lefty loosey. They only go in one way FFS!

 

[Aphrodite]

Blues’ investigation into raft of soft-tissues finds “unfortunate” circumstances

“I think we’ve had four or five hamstrings, we’ve been most concerned about that.”

www.sen.com.au

Can't ask for much more than this. At least the club has told us they acknowledge it as an issue and are trying to establish why.

The only counter here is that if the bad times are bad luck, was our good run last year good luck, or good management?

From the article :-

“If you do get a new person (fitness boss), they inherit the same players,” Cook noted.
“It’s a tough one. Jack Russell has a very, very strong reputation at our footy club and he’s well-liked and we think he’s doing a great job.

“It’s just unfortunate we’ve had the same players getting injured two or three years in a row. It’s just unfortunate.”

 

[JustOneTime]

From the article :-

You missed the best bit where they are none the wiser. Basically they have no idea on what is going on so have given him the benefit of that doubt.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

You missed the best bit where they are none the wiser. Basically they have no idea on what is going on so have given him the benefit of that doubt.

You're smarter than that. Cooks not going to come out and lay blame on someone. He clearly implies what they believe the issues are... He says it carefully without calling the players soft and without giving reason as to why they're injury prone (rehab work ethic, bad luck etc). Just that we have too many players who have bodies that aren't resilient... It's the same group he says.... They're on it.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Well the easy question back to him would have been, why did you only move on one (Philp) of the perennially injured last year?



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[JJBagger]

Well the easy question back to him would have been, why did you only move on one (Philp) of the perennially injured last year?



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Cause the others proved they could impact once they came in. Philp couldn’t even get fit enough to play, let alone impact. All the others got 1 year deals by the way

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Cause the others proved they could impact once they came in. Philp couldn’t even get fit enough to play, let alone impact. All the others got 1 year deals by the way

Can't replace em all all at once either.

 

[JustOneTime]

I think the only metric we can rely on to measure russell's performance is by using Martin's games played at GC and games played at Carlton.

Martin is currently at 53% at Carlton. While at gold coast he played at a rate of over 85%. Same player, same body and dealing with the same issues.

For Martin, I omitted the first two years based on Martin being a junior who could lose games based on form. Note: But even if i included them the percentage would be much higher than Carlton games still.

This is the closest thing to evidence we have. Different programme, different outcome.

 

[Arr0w]

Hopefully the 4 players listed as "test" will play some form of footy this week

6 still on the injury list, halved in the last 2 weeks

Feel for the Lions and their High Performance Director, 5 ACLs in 12 months, 2 in one game, this joint would riot

 

[The Bighouse]

Hopefully the 4 players listed as "test" will play some form of footy this week

6 still on the injury list, halved in the last 2 weeks

Feel for the Lions and their High Performance Director, 5 ACLs in 12 months, 2 in one game, this joint would riot

BL to investigate the GABBA surface…?
Are we looking at IKON?
Not sure where Doedee was training when he did his (assume Springfield or wherever) + Doc at the same ground. K.Coleman was an impact injury.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Feel for the Lions and their High Performance Director, 5 ACLs in 12 months, 2 in one game, this joint would riot

You're better than this Arrow. This strawman of ACL injuries is nonsense - the question marks on Russell (including from the club) are off the back of the soft tissue injuries.