Ryan Gardner is a good footballer - post your apologies here

[doggies ftw]

I still think we need to offer him some more support as fans. Considering the growth from where he started, it’s a considerable achievement.

The best thing that can happen to the club is that he continues to develop and can hold down a key defensive post for the next 5 years. He was given minimal support via our defensive structure and the talls around him this year.

Nothing against the bloke and props to his year & overall improvement - he’s come a long long way from where he started and has etched out an acceptable standard of footy to be considered capable at AFL level.

But let’s be honest the best thing that can happen to the club is we find good enough defenders to push him out to a back up role. He’s still & always will be a very very limited defender who is only poor to average one on one and offers zero offensive rebound or intercepting. Has some nice athletic traits which helps to kill the contest as a 3rd man up - but I’m sorry you need to offer more than that at AFL level to be considered a good player.

We absolutely should be looking to improve on Gardner in our defence

 

[Boof09]

Nothing against the bloke and props to his year & overall improvement - he’s come a long long way from where he started and has etched out an acceptable standard of footy to be considered capable at AFL level.

But let’s be honest the best thing that can happen to the club is we find good enough defenders to push him out to a back up role. He’s still & always will be a very very limited defender who is only poor to average one on one and offers zero offensive rebound or intercepting. Has some nice athletic traits which helps to kill the contest as a 3rd man up - but I’m sorry you need to offer more than that at AFL level to be considered a good player.

We absolutely should be looking to improve on Gardner in our defence

100% this

 

[cecil]

I wouldn't be shocked to see him considerably improve again next year. He's actually started to slowly back in his intercept marking more, and that is the difference between a solid and good defender

 

[doggies ftw]

I wouldn't be shocked to see him considerably improve again next year. He's actually started to slowly back in his intercept marking more, and that is the difference between a solid and good defender

He definitely has started to look more confident in that side of the game and very well may improve further - he’d have to improve quite dramatically to become good though IMO.

His best bet is to get a genuine number one alongside him and continue to develop his defensive craft and become a
no frills genuine lockdown specialist on the number 2/athletic forwards of the comp. But I don’t have think he’s anywhere near good enough one on one to play that role when you’re not getting any offensive upside out of him.

Hopefully his intercept game develops further to round out his game, but I can’t see it ever being a strength - it’s not something you really see developed in a big way usually, most players tend to either have it or they don’t - or at least have the signs of it

 

[Mahama]

I wouldn't be shocked to see him considerably improve again next year. He's actually started to slowly back in his intercept marking more, and that is the difference between a solid and good defender

Yep, seems more likely than not at this stage.

Managed to maintain an average of 2.8 intercept marks (10th among key defenders), 1 contested mark, 9.1 spoils (3rd) and 11.8% 1v1 loss percentage (3rd) across the whole second half of the season. Hasn't yet played 50 games. Has a genuine number 1 defender joining him next year. Clearly has the full backing of the coaches.

Expecting a big 2023!

 

[threenewpadlocks]

"Congrats on finishing 7th in the best and fairest"

"No actually he sucks"

This thread's legs are remarkable

 

[bresker]

Part of my frustration with him probably lies with the coaches . Someone must be encouraging him to spoil the ball instead of marking it, possibly in the mistaken belief that our mids will gobble up the loose ball.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Part of my frustration with him probably lies with the coaches . Someone must be encouraging him to spoil the ball instead of marking it, possibly in the mistaken belief that our mids will gobble up the loose ball.

Probably a bit of both. Early days I genuinely don’t think he had the confidence to mark.

 

[Testekill]

Part of my frustration with him probably lies with the coaches . Someone must be encouraging him to spoil the ball instead of marking it, possibly in the mistaken belief that our mids will gobble up the loose ball.

Also it didn't help that Keath was very limited by injury this season and Williams fell off hard.

 

[Proffessor]

For Ryan's sake and our team's, I hope there is some level of interest in him from another club during trade week. He might even fit in well with another team's defensive unit, e.g. a Gold Coast or a North Melbourne.

Given his strong showing in the B&F voting there is clear support for what he was doing within the match committee. However it simply didn't translate to good results for the team. The defence performed much better last year with him out injured for most of the season.

His effort is unquestionable, and he also sounds like a nice likeable bloke (kudos to him for helping Zaine on Mad Monday) but I still say he would be an absolute nightmare for our other defenders to play with out on the field, and his style of play is clearly not significantly helping our defence which was awfully ineffective this year. I don't believe anyone honestly want's to play with a guy that will crash over the top of them with an attempted spoil at almost every opportunity.

It's hard enough for our forwards with the way Naughton plays, but that is different because he takes marks, kicks goals, plus a bit of chaos isn't a bad thing to create within your own forward line.

We are obviously getting Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

back, and Sam Darcy also seems like a good chance to play in defence next year, but having Gardner trying to spoil the ball at every opportunity is likely to hinder these high marking defenders rather than help them.

If Gardner is still going to play as a regular part of our defensive unit, then I would be doubtful that getting in guys May and Lever would make much of a difference for us.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Given his strong showing in the B&F voting there is clear support for what he was doing within the match committee. However it simply didn't translate to good results for the team. The defence performed much better last year with him out injured for most of the season.

We lost once with Gards in the side in 2021, and that was within a goal of Geelong at GMHBA. Went 8-1 with him in the side

 

[Proffessor]

We lost once with Gards in the side in 2021, and that was within a goal of Geelong at GMHBA. Went 8-1 with him in the side

He played just 9 games in 2021 and we made the GF. He played 22 and we scrapped into 8th spot.
It seems the more he plays the worse we do.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

He played just 9 games in 2021 and we made the GF. He played 22 and we scrapped into 8th spot.
It seems the more he plays the worse we do.

Correlation does not imply causation. Cordy played 19 games last year and we made the grand final. He played 14 games this year and we scraped into 8th. Yet surely no one would think Cordy actually makes us a better side.

 

[Proffessor]

Correlation does not imply causation. Cordy played 19 games last year and we made the grand final. He played 14 games this year and we scraped into 8th. Yet surely no one would think Cordy actually makes us a better side.

You are wrong again, my fellow Bulldog supporter. I would select Zaine Cordy ahead of Ryan Gardner without a moments hesitation in any match of the year for exactly that reason. Sadly Zaine a very under appreciated player.

I think he is kind of an anti-Jarrod Harbrow, who I thought was quite over rated. Before leaving for the Gold Coast, Jarrod used to make these exciting runs from our defence which would get the crowd, commentators and your average supporter very excited. Not me.

Unfortunately, his runs typically only made himself look good but didn't help the team because by the time he kicked the ball the all his team mates were out of position. Zaine tends to do the team things, sure he makes a few mistakes here and there, but he does a lot of good work that goes unnoticed and unappreciated.

 

[ossie_21]

He’s still & always will be a very very limited defender who is only poor to average one on one and offers zero offensive rebound or intercepting.

Managed to maintain an average of 2.8 intercept marks (10th among key defenders), 1 contested mark, 9.1 spoils (3rd) and 11.8% 1v1 loss percentage (3rd) across the whole second half of the season.

 

[Al dente]

to assess the net impact/performance of Gardy you need to subtract his ground ball pants pooing from his solid aerial work

 

[dogwatch]

to assess the net impact/performance of Gardy you need to subtract his ground ball pants pooing from his solid aerial work

The club must have bought itself a heavy duty washing machine.

 

[Here we go dogs]

Gardner has come on in leaps and bounds this year. I think he got beaten once this year from memory (Franklyn at the SCG) and he certainly wasn’t the only player that night to be off.

He really just needs support from a decent 2nd and 3rd talls that can both intercept.

 

[Foxman98]

Gardner has come on in leaps and bounds this year. I think he got beaten once this year from memory (Franklyn at the SCG) and he certainly wasn’t the only player that night to be off.

He really just needs support from a decent 2nd and 3rd talls that can both intercept.

He also destroyed Franklin in r3 at Marval he is on the improve and is currently our best KPD the only reason people still bag him is because they have a vendetta against Bevo picking him and McComb types without wanting to admit he’s actually grown into a very competent defender

 

[doggies ftw]

Admittedly those stats are very good & somewhat surprising. But they’re across what, 11 games? Let’s see if he goes on with it? If he does then I’ll be the first to take back my comments back but as it stands overall he’s been poor one on one & offers zero intercepting, hopefully the recent improvement is a sign of things to come.

 

[hutchy31]

He also destroyed Franklin in r3 at Marval he is on the improve and is currently our best KPD the only reason people still bag him is because they have a vendetta against Bevo picking him and McComb types without wanting to admit he’s actually grown into a very competent defender

I'm not sure it's as extreme as that, I see a number of posters admitting they were wrong about him. I'm one of them - I thought there was no way he'd make it at AFL level, I was wrong and I'd now say he's about an average KPD when looking at others across the comp.

However, that doesn't mean he's "good", at least relatively speaking when looking at the defenders in other sides hoping to make top 4/top 8. It also doesn't mean that he should be automatically selected if/when we have better KPDs available (here's hoping we can draft/develop/trade for/somehow snare one or two). Since the dogs flag every premiership team has had very solid KPDs where intercept marking is generally a strength. My view is that if Gardner is one of our KPDs we'll be behind the eight ball in terms of winning a flag.

Hopefully I'm wrong and he does develop that side of his game and ends up a premiership player, but my guess is we're in a better position if he ends up as depth rather than someone we rely upon in that critical area of the field.

 

[dogwatch]

He also destroyed Franklin in r3 at Marval he is on the improve and is currently our best KPD the only reason people still bag him is because they have a vendetta against Bevo picking him and McComb types without wanting to admit he’s actually grown into a very competent defender

Naah I think it's a bit more than that.
Firstly he's not your classical KP defender with great body-on-body skills.
Secondly he was pretty limited to start with but has now come along quite well - some people can't get rid of the first impression (understandable - it's a very human phenomenon).
Thirdly some people went hard at him early and find it hard to admit publicly that they were wrong (also a pretty common phenomenon).
Fourthly he's playing in a defensive system many of us don't fully understand (and/or don't fully agree with) so it's hard to work out what being a good defender actually looks like - clearly MC thought he was doing his job pretty well in that system. Maybe that's not as apparent to those outside VUWO. My point here is that the failings of the defensive system may be interpreted by us as Gardner's personal failings when in fact he's doing exactly what they ask of him.

And yes finally there may be some who just have it in for Bevo ... and Gardner is collateral damage because he's seen as a Bevo project player. However I don't think that on its own explains nearly 700 posts on the bloke. The zombie thread that can't die.

You don't have to look too hard at the following table to see that Gardner has had his best season yet. Not elite (except maybe in spoils) but clearly doing enough in our system to get plenty of B&F votes. I think we just need to enjoy the ride and hope he can go on improving in 2023.

 

[bullish23]

I think he got beaten once this year from memory

I must watch a totally different game to others on here. How about the cats game at marvel where both Hawkins and Cameron ripped us apart. Or Lobb in round 21. Curnow and McKay kicked 9 between them against us.

People are so obsessed on Gardner making it they’ll say anything.

 

[Foxman98]

I must watch a totally different game to others on here. How about the cats game at marvel where both Hawkins and Cameron ripped us apart. Or Lobb in round 21. Curnow and McKay kicked 9 between them against us.

People are so obsessed on Gardner making it they’ll say anything.

He was beaten early by Hawkins then kept Cameron quiet for 2 quarters after kicking 3 early and was moved back to Hawkins for some reason that was poor by making them the matchup. Cordy played in Lobb and Curnow was pulling goals out of his ass from the boundary Gardner is a more than competent defender just not a number 1 which he is being made to play thankfully Jones coming in means he won’t

 

[Here we go dogs]

I must watch a totally different game to others on here. How about the cats game at marvel where both Hawkins and Cameron ripped us apart. Or Lobb in round 21. Curnow and McKay kicked 9 between them against us.

People are so obsessed on Gardner making it they’ll say anything.

Not sure how closely you’re watching.

Against Geelong, Gardiner played on Hawkins. Hawkins didn’t do much (might of kicked 1 or 2). Cameron kicked 6 on Keath.

Against Fremantle, Lobb kicked his 4 on Cordy. Cordy was terrible that day.

Against Carlton, Curnow kicked 5 which were either opportunistic snaps or dubious free kicks. McKay was better than Curnow that game, he took Keath to the cleaners with his contested marking in the 1st half.

Gardner was our best performing key backman this year by streets and rarely got beaten despite poor defensive structure.

He is a serviceable footballer that will continue to improve. I have no issue with him being a staple of the defende for the next 5 or so years. Need to get some better support around him.