Ryan Gardner is a good footballer - post your apologies here

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Here we go dogs said:
Ryan Gardner is a far better footballer than fletcher roberts and Joel hamling (the bulldog version at least).

Gardner is better 1 on 1 and had a more complete year in 2022 than either Roberts or Hamling did at the doggies (Hamling was better at Freo).

If a premiership medallion is how you judge a player I guess Cordy is a better chf than naughton?
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You might want to re-watch the 2016 finals series 4 pack and look how important Joel Hamling was to us in those finals. He beat his opponent each week, Kennedy, Gunston, multiple GWS forwards and Franklin. Did not put a foot wrong the whole finals series. Then gave Freo two good years before injury took its toll. He like Gardiner was a late bloomer.
Gardiner has not achieved what Hamling did for us (even though it was a short period of time). I'm not against Gardiner, I'm hoping he can improve a little further but he is prone to mistakes, yet we don't have anyone else at the moment and our structure is so bad its not helping the defenders like Gardiner.
 

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Nat Fyfe said:
Man I truly hope this post was satire.

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Let’s not act like everything the coaches do is right because they’re professionals - there are extremely poorly ran clubs everywhere - hell that goes for sports that play with a lot more money than AFL too.

Hamling is clearly much better than Gardner. I’d have Fletch & Gardner around level pecking but both very different players with very different attributes & strengths/weaknesses
 
LondonBulldog said:
You might want to re-watch the 2016 finals series 4 pack and look how important Joel Hamling was to us in those finals. He beat his opponent each week, Kennedy, Gunston, multiple GWS forwards and Franklin. Did not put a foot wrong the whole finals series. Then gave Freo two good years before injury took its toll. He like Gardiner was a late bloomer.
Gardiner has not achieved what Hamling did for us (even though it was a short period of time). I'm not against Gardiner, I'm hoping he can improve a little further but he is prone to mistakes, yet we don't have anyone else at the moment and our structure is so bad its not helping the defenders like Gardiner.
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Hamling did a really good job in the finals series but he had a considerable amount of more support than what Gardner does via a more effective system (And having Dale Morris and prime Easton Wood helps)

Also in that finals series Hamling actually had a pretty poor game against GWS (He made at least two big mistakes that led to goals and also split his time on Lobb and Paton who kicked 7 between them). And in the GF Morris was on Franklin the bulk of the day.

It’s all open to personal opinion but I think Gardner has played better/more consistent footy at the dogs. While he also has a higher ceiling given his size to play on the the monsters.
 
doggies ftw said:
Let’s not act like everything the coaches do is right because they’re professionals - there are extremely poorly ran clubs everywhere - hell that goes for sports that play with a lot more money than AFL too.

Hamling is clearly much better than Gardner. I’d have Fletch & Gardner around level pecking but both very different players with very different attributes & strengths/weaknesses
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Our football club has made 4 AFL/VFL grand finals ever. Two of those came in the space of 6 years. I think our coaches have a better idea than anyone as to who is a good player and who isn't. And I don't buy that Hamling is a better player than Gardner. I think people look too fondly on his late 2016 form, and it distorts their memories of the quality of football he was producing on a more regular basis
 
doggies ftw said:
Let’s not act like everything the coaches do is right because they’re professionals - there are extremely poorly ran clubs everywhere - hell that goes for sports that play with a lot more money than AFL too.

Hamling is clearly much better than Gardner. I’d have Fletch & Gardner around level pecking but both very different players with very different attributes & strengths/weaknesses
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Hamling was out of the afl side more often than not with us.
 
Here we go dogs said:
Cordy got towelled up by Neil Erasmus. That wasn’t Gardner.

Gardner started going for more marks in the second half of the year. And I am okay with him playing within his limitations and spoiling more often than not. We need other players around him to intercept. Gardners job if his playing as no.1 or no.2 back is to nullify his opposition number (which he did well).

Dale Morris did not intercept mark much and he would be regarded in our top 10 backman (possibly top 5) of all time.
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Neil Erasmus is a midfielder, Jay Amiss is who I was referring to. Punching every contest simply doesn't work he needs to have more strings to his bow and his career stats show he hasn't.

We could go back and forth about where he nullifies the opposition back, maybe he does on occasions but overall I am not sure he does it well. I have said it plenty of times in the past, I hope he does improve because clearly we need it but after 7 preseasons and 45 odd games I am not sure that it is there. No doubting his commitment though.
 
The most important statistical parameter is the fact that we conceded 1812 points in 2022 compared to only 1501 points in the 2021 regular season.
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This new metric for determining a defender's individual ability based on how many points his team concedes over the course of the season is revolutionary. Aside from it indisputably showing Cordy's superiority to Gardner, I've been using it to get a real sense of just how good – or not – some of our more prominent key defenders have been in recent years.

Brian Lake only managed 5 games for us in 2011, a year where we conceded 2155 points. Compare that to 2012 when he played almost a full season and we conceded 2301 points. Meanwhile Tom Williams played 17 games in 2011 but just the 3 in 2012. This confirms that Tom Williams was better than Brian Lake.

Dale Morris is another interesting one. Played almost all of 2014 and was responsible for us conceding 2177 points. In 2015 he missed almost half the season, and we were therefore able to concede only 1825 points! Fortunately, it was Michael Talia who got the opportunity to step in for Moz after barely playing in 2014. Michael Talia, it turns out, was better than Dale Morris.

And of course, Fletcher Roberts had only one season in his career where he played close to a full season - 2016. That year he of course dragged our defence to a miserly 1609 points conceded - a feat we didn't get even close to every other year he barely played. Fletcher Roberts is our GOAT defender.
 
House_of_Dahl said:
If Gardner has the same level of development/improvement next year then he'll overtake Hamling imo.
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Shoe in for the B&F next year at this rate!
:p
 
House_of_Dahl said:
If Gardner has the same level of development/improvement next year then he'll overtake Hamling imo.
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Unfortunately players of his age & ability don’t suddenly get heaps better just because they’re ‘in the system’ . Anyway he was drafted in 2015. He might get a bit better , but he’s 26 next year . There isn’t some magic lotion the coaches can rub on his arse to turn him into Glen Jakovic.

I’d be happy if he just did the basics conpetently and became more aggressive with his kicking .
 

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bresker said:
Unfortunately players of his age & ability don’t suddenly get heaps better just because they’re ‘in the system’ . Anyway he was drafted in 2015. He might get a bit better , but he’s 26 next year . There isn’t some magic lotion the coaches can rub on his arse to turn him into Glen Jakovic.
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Ted Richards - his improvement from age 27 to age 29 was incredible.

Gardner is (by rumour) a 'chucker' so with more gametime comes less nerves, more belief. His improvement from last year to this year was pretty good, and when he plays with a genuine no 1 defender next year (hopefully Jones stays on the paddock) he can go back to a role he's more suited to.
 
doggies ftw said:
Let’s not act like everything the coaches do is right because they’re professionals - there are extremely poorly ran clubs everywhere - hell that goes for sports that play with a lot more money than AFL too.

Hamling is clearly much better than Gardner. I’d have Fletch & Gardner around level pecking but both very different players with very different attributes & strengths/weaknesses
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I like most of this post but can’t quite equate Ryan with Fletch at this point.

I think the main area that Ryan seems to have the advantage in that comparison is off the field, where he has clearly been able to get the MC on side.

Fletch on the other hand always seemed the MC go to scapegoat when somebody needed to be omitted, otherwise a pretty solid citizen at AFL level, especially when it counted.
 
Proffessor said:
For Ryan's sake and our team's, I hope there is some level of interest in him from another club during trade week. He might even fit in well with another team's defensive unit, e.g. a Gold Coast or a North Melbourne.

Given his strong showing in the B&F voting there is clear support for what he was doing within the match committee. However it simply didn't translate to good results for the team. The defence performed much better last year with him out injured for most of the season.

His effort is unquestionable, and he also sounds like a nice likeable bloke (kudos to him for helping Zaine on Mad Monday) but I still say he would be an absolute nightmare for our other defenders to play with out on the field, and his style of play is clearly not significantly helping our defence which was awfully ineffective this year. I don't believe anyone honestly want's to play with a guy that will crash over the top of them with an attempted spoil at almost every opportunity.

It's hard enough for our forwards with the way Naughton plays, but that is different because he takes marks, kicks goals, plus a bit of chaos isn't a bad thing to create within your own forward line.

We are obviously getting Liam Jones back, and Sam Darcy also seems like a good chance to play in defence next year, but having Gardner trying to spoil the ball at every opportunity is likely to hinder these high marking defenders rather than help them.

If Gardner is still going to play as a regular part of our defensive unit, then I would be doubtful that getting in guys May and Lever would make much of a difference for us.
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Funnily enough, as good as May is he has a habit of taking out his team mates when he spoils and he tends to hit his team mates harder than someone like Gardner does. Not sure Melbourne are complaining too much though.
 
doggies ftw said:
Let’s not act like everything the coaches do is right because they’re professionals - there are extremely poorly ran clubs everywhere - hell that goes for sports that play with a lot more money than AFL too.

Hamling is clearly much better than Gardner. I’d have Fletch & Gardner around level pecking but both very different players with very different attributes & strengths/weaknesses
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Obviously the coaches make mistakes, but it tends to be things like wanting Lipinski and and Lewis Young to stay with the bulldogs but dropping and playing them out of position respectively.

In terms of their football knowledge they are so far ahead of the average supporter that the average supporter cannot comprehend the way they see the game.

It's like uneducated people trying to argue physics with a physicist or medicine with a doctor. Sure they might be right occasionally, but it's usually more of a coincidence than anything to do with their knowledge about the subject matter.
 

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Ryan Gardner is a good footballer - post your apologies here

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