Roast Sack Horse

[Bloods86]

I agree. It will sort itself out. The plans are in place.

Can you let us know what those plans are, since you know?

 

[rustycrate]

Haha what a load of nonsense, the only thing that is shrill is the tone of your post

Longmire needs to go because he has failed over and over again, some of us recognised his shortcomings many seasons ago so it’s hardly reactionary

Your Fagan imaginings are gaslighting of the highest order attempting to paint those who want Longmire gone as hysterical

If supporters like you had their way we would be a basket case next year.
Scandal: Coach sacked.
Scandal: Warner leaves club in disarray.
Scandal: Players disillusioned because of XYZ fallout of Warner exit.
Scandal: etc

Swans fans disillusioned with the club making soooo many grand finals and losing most of them and not moving on are seeing the glass half empty and not the glass half full.

We are close. And you want to throw a grenade into the club for losing a grand final.

Get a grip.

We are close. We need to tweak some things. Not wreak something.

We are one of the most successful clubs over the last 20 years. Yes it has not translated into premierships. But it still could. Next year. That is my hope.

Posters that want to blow up everything and throw the toys out of the cot because we lose a grand final. Yes it is disappointing. But would you rather be St Kilda, North, Gold Coast, Fremantle, Adelaide and other clubs less successful. Their fans are not being as high on the SACK THE COACH thermometer and they have not been anywhere near a grand final.

You lot that want to sack Horse, I think, are spoilt little brats throwing the toys out of the cot in a tantrum. You don't realise how good you have got it. Spoilt. I want everything. Now.

There are 18 teams vying for a premiership every year. We get close often. We are above the odds most years. It is very hard to win. 17 against 1. Every year.

And you anti Horse posters want to sack him. He has made the the final eight 12 times out of 14 times.

We are always close.

I have read plenty of posts wanting to Sack Horse.

I have not read many posts with alternatives to Horse as coach. Nor any solutions to what he should have done different. Those of you that have not provided anything as an alternative to Horse as coach are just throwing stones over the fence. You obviously have no positive solutions to your perceived grievance against the Swans and Horse. I just want to sack Horse. Waaa Waaa. Just more whining.

Maybe you can provide your solution to us winning more grand finals outside of just sack Horse.

 

[caesar88]

If supporters like you had their way we would be a basket case next year.
Scandal: Coach sacked.
Scandal: Warner leaves club in disarray.
Scandal: Players disillusioned because of XYZ fallout of Warner exit.
Scandal: etc

Swans fans disillusioned with the club making soooo many grand finals and losing most of them and not moving on are seeing the glass half empty and not the glass half full.

We are close. And you want to throw a grenade into the club for losing a grand final.

Get a grip.

We are close. We need to tweak some things. Not wreak something.

We are one of the most successful clubs over the last 20 years. Yes it has not translated into premierships. But it still could. Next year. That is my hope.

Posters that want to blow up everything and throw the toys out of the cot because we lose a grand final. Yes it is disappointing. But would you rather be St Kilda, North, Gold Coast, Fremantle, Adelaide and other clubs less successful. Their fans are not being as high on the SACK THE COACH thermometer and they have not been anywhere near a grand final.

You lot that want to sack Horse, I think, are spoilt little brats throwing the toys out of the cot in a tantrum. You don't realise how good you have got it. Spoilt. I want everything. Now.

There are 18 teams vying for a premiership every year. We get close often. We are above the odds most years. It is very hard to win. 17 against 1. Every year.

And you anti Horse posters want to sack him. He has made the the final eight 12 times out of 14 times.

We are always close.

I have read plenty of posts wanting to Sack Horse.

I have not read many posts with alternatives to Horse as coach. Nor any solutions to what he should have done different. Those of you that have not provided anything as an alternative to Horse as coach are just throwing stones over the fence. You obviously have no positive solutions to your perceived grievance against the Swans and Horse. I just want to sack Horse. Waaa Waaa. Just more whining.

Maybe you can provide your solution to us winning more grand finals outside of just sack Horse.

People have provided what they think are solutions to winning a grand final, but if those solutions are reliant on Horse making adjustments to his coaching that it feels like he will never make, then what?

 

[rustycrate]

Can you let us know what those plans are, since you know?

I have worked in very successful companies and I can confidently tell you as a certainty that succession plans are built in. Just like many others aspects of running a successful operation. Successful companies expect the worse and plan for it. I did not say I know the exact plan for the replacement of Horse. There would be many plans in case Horse leaves and X as well. Or Horse and X and Y as well.

Your flippant comment on let us know what those plans are suggests to me that you are in the sack Horse camp. The camp that expects things to happen without effort. The camp that wants to throw the toys out of the cot without due diligence. I expected better from you Bloods86.

 

[rustycrate]

People have provided what they think are solutions to winning a grand final, but if those solutions are reliant on Horse making adjustments to his coaching that it feels like he will never make, then what?

Well I have heard
1. sack Horse. This is the most popular solution to us winning grand finals. I disagree but I am in the minority.
2. I have asked for other solutions. Yes Horse can make adjustments. The Swans could move him on at the end of 2025.

Sack Horse now is not a solution to anything positive.

 

[caesar88]

Well I have heard
1. sack Horse. This is the most popular solution to us winning grand finals. I disagree but I am in the minority.
2. I have asked for other solutions. Yes Horse can make adjustments. The Swans could move him on at the end of 2025.

Sack Horse now is not a solution to anything positive.

Horse is out of contract at the end of next season. I could be wrong of course but I think the majority of the 'sack Horse' people understand that it would not be ideal to sack him right now without an adequate replacement, planning, consideration etc.

I think the majority of people just don't think we should keep him until he's proven he can win another flag. For example if we are 13-1 & top spot on the ladder by the middle of next season, the club might think that's an indication to extend him again. But for many fans it's not good enough, and nothing will be until he wins a flag, which I think is fair enough. It's been 12 years since his last one.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Haha what a load of nonsense, the only thing that is shrill is the tone of your post

Longmire needs to go because he has failed over and over again, some of us recognised his shortcomings many seasons ago so it’s hardly reactionary

Your Fagan imaginings are gaslighting of the highest order attempting to paint those who want Longmire gone as hysterical

I think my post must have been pretty clumsy, because your interpretation certainly wasn’t my intent.

I’m among those who think Horse has run his race & it’s time for change.

My point was that those who want Horse moved on AREN’T hysterical (nor short term reactionary). I hope there’s a succession plan - because it’s time to implement it (as opposed to a knee-jerk sacking).

Hysterical would, hypothetically, have been demanding Fagan’s sacking (and there WOULD have been some on here demanding it, if he was our coach).

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Horse is out of contract at the end of next season. I could be wrong of course but I think the majority of the 'sack Horse' people understand that it would not be ideal to sack him right now without an adequate replacement, planning, consideration etc.

I think the majority of people just don't think we should keep him until he's proven he can win another flag. For example if we are 13-1 & top spot on the ladder by the middle of next season, the club might think that's an indication to extend him again. But for many fans it's not good enough, and nothing will be until he wins a flag, which I think is fair enough. It's been 12 years since his last one.

We have had some of the best talent as recognized by AA and other awards to just completely fall apart when its mattered

Focus? Motivation? all on the manager/coach of a sporting team.

Personally i think there is something seriously wrong to lose on both occasions to teams outside of the top 4! its such a colossal advantage in the AFL compared to other sports.

But Rusty we are not close what metric are you using to say we are close? imo this performance was backwards compared to 2022 we showed some fight in the 2nd and were 5 goals down at HT.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I think my post must have been pretty clumsy, because your interpretation certainly wasn’t my intent.

I’m among those who think Horse has run his race & it’s time for change.

My point was that those who want Horse moved on AREN’T hysterical (nor short term reactionary). I hope there’s a succession plan - because it’s time to implement it (as opposed to a knee-jerk sacking).

Hysterical would, hypothetically, have been demanding Fagan’s sacking (and there WOULD have been some on here demanding it, if he was our coach).

Certainly would not want him anywhere near our players if he was complicit in the investigation.

 

[Bloods86]

I have worked in very successful companies and I can confidently tell you as a certainty that succession plans are built in. Just like many others aspects of running a successful operation. Successful companies expect the worse and plan for it. I did not say I know the exact plan for the replacement of Horse. There would be many plans in case Horse leaves and X as well. Or Horse and X and Y as well.

Your flippant comment on let us know what those plans are suggests to me that you are in the sack Horse camp. The camp that expects things to happen without effort. The camp that wants to throw the toys out of the cot without due diligence. I expected better from you Bloods86.

I understand you have your opinions Rusty, but you've misrepresented others in this thread, as recently as calling people reactionary / short term thinkers, when it's clearly not short term thinking or reactionary in relation to Horse and our grand final failures.

So when you proclaimed "plans are in place", after being dismissive of others thoughts, it's absolutely fair to ask you what they are, even though I suspected you actually didn't know. I've also worked in big, successful companies, but you know as well as I do, that a succession plan in case of emergency is not the same as having a set exit to hand over to the next senior coach, which is what it means in footy terms. We're not talking about Horse being physically unable to do his job or quitting suddenly, we're talking about whether he should be replaced because he is not good enough at his job (to win premierships). Not the same thing.

I've stated my position on Horse before, i.e. he has 1 more year on his contract and can try one more time for a flag in 2025. If you choose to ignore that, or after 4 failed grand finals, 3 in pathetic circumstances, want to scold me for things that are untrue of myself, and others (e.g. expecting things without effort, throwing toys out of the cot as if it's a sudden problem), then so be it.

 

[rustycrate]

Horse is out of contract at the end of next season. I could be wrong of course but I think the majority of the 'sack Horse' people understand that it would not be ideal to sack him right now without an adequate replacement, planning, consideration etc.

I think the majority of people just don't think we should keep him until he's proven he can win another flag. For example if we are 13-1 & top spot on the ladder by the middle of next season, the club might think that's an indication to extend him again. But for many fans it's not good enough, and nothing will be until he wins a flag, which I think is fair enough. It's been 12 years since his last one.

And I could agree with every word you have written because it has been written with facts, due diligence, planning and other considerations. All of the things I have been saying.

I am all for any solution that is thought through and is not rash.

I just don't get the sack Horse now camp that does not provide an educated, thought through alternative that stacks up. I would retain Horse if it is our best alternative. I would also move Horse on if it is our best alternative. I would surround either coach we have with better people. I would explore every option to give us the best possible chance of winning a grand final. I expect the Swans are doing this stuff right now.

I react to flippant sack Horse posts that do not do the due diligence of thinking about the positives and negatives of any decisions on Horse's tenure. Lots of sack Horse crap permeated this thread. I just wanted posters to provide more constructive solutions to us winning grand finals other than sack Horse.

I get that those posters that don't want to think and just react can post sack Horse like graffiti all over this thread. And it is maybe remedial and helpful for them getting over another embarrassing grand final loss. But that time is up now. Time to move on.

That is what I think. But I will probably battle on with those that choose not to move on.

 

[rustycrate]

I understand you have your opinions Rusty, but you've misrepresented others in this thread, as recently as calling people reactionary / short term thinkers, when it's clearly not short term thinking or reactionary in relation to Horse and our grand final failures.

So when you proclaimed "plans are in place", after being dismissive of others thoughts, it's absolutely fair to ask you what they are, even though I suspected you actually didn't know. I've also worked in big, successful companies, but you know as well as I do, that a succession plan in case of emergency is not the same as having a set exit to hand over to the next senior coach, which is what it means in footy terms. We're not talking about Horse being physically unable to do his job or quitting suddenly, we're talking about whether he should be replaced because he is not good enough at his job (to win premierships). Not the same thing.

I've stated my position on Horse before, i.e. he has 1 more year on his contract and can try one more time for a flag in 2025. If you choose to ignore that, or after 4 failed grand finals, 3 in pathetic circumstances, want to scold me for things that are untrue of myself, and others (e.g. expecting things without effort, throwing toys out of the cot as if it's a sudden problem), then so be it.

My thought are he will fulfil his contract and retire. Those are my thoughts.
He has been successful but not as successful as we would have liked.
He has lost multiple grand finals by humiliating circumstances and score lines.
He has been at the club for 14 years.
Time for a refresh and rejuvenation. I say.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

My thought are he will fulfil his contract and retire. Those are my thoughts.
He has been successful but not as successful as we would have liked.
He has lost multiple grand finals by humiliating circumstances and score lines.
He has been at the club for 14 years.
Time for a refresh and rejuvenation. I say.

$1.01 favorite

How unpredictable would it be if the club extended him for another 2 seasons!

 

[rustycrate]

$1.01 favorite

How unpredictable would it be if the club extended him for another 2 seasons!

There is a smooth transition to the new coach and we are still on for another premiership. I hope.

 

[Bloods86]

My thought are he will fulfil his contract and retire. Those are my thoughts.
He has been successful but not as successful as we would have liked.
He has lost multiple grand finals by humiliating circumstances and score lines.
He has been at the club for 14 years.
Time for a refresh and rejuvenation. I say.

Well I'm not against him continuing beyond 2025, but I don't want the club to extend him until the season is finished.

I want to see either a flag, or a grand final appearance where we give it our all, but lose to a superior opponent, have injuries that impede us etc. I don't really count 2016 in the same way as the others, we had some questionable umpiring and copped several injuries before and during the game. We at least battled on. But we need to see him get the team going in a grand final again, and unfortunately he's only got 1 year left to do it imo.

If we start well next year and the club extends him, to me, that's short term thinking. Well, it's short term if our goal is premierships rather than stability for the sake of it i.e. the modern Port Adelaide way.

 

[caesar88]

And I could agree with every word you have written because it has been written with facts, due diligence, planning and other considerations. All of the things I have been saying.

I am all for any solution that is thought through and is not rash.

I just don't get the sack Horse now camp that does not provide an educated, thought through alternative that stacks up. I would retain Horse if it is our best alternative. I would also move Horse on if it is our best alternative. I would surround either coach we have with better people. I would explore every option to give us the best possible chance of winning a grand final. I expect the Swans are doing this stuff right now.

I react to flippant sack Horse posts that do not do the due diligence of thinking about the positives and negatives of any decisions on Horse's tenure. Lots of sack Horse crap permeated this thread. I just wanted posters to provide more constructive solutions to us winning grand finals other than sack Horse.

I get that those posters that don't want to think and just react can post sack Horse like graffiti all over this thread. And it is maybe remedial and helpful for them getting over another embarrassing grand final loss. But that time is up now. Time to move on.

That is what I think. But I will probably battle on with those that choose not to move on.

In fairness though, do posters have to have a thoroughly-planned out concept of a replacement or alternative for Horse? They're not Andrew Pridham or Tom Harley or any of the other execs who are paid good money to do the due diligence and make the necessary enquiries to land on the best coach possible.

 

[Punts]

Hopefully it’s not cox that takes over

Want an outsider

Just my opinion

 

[rustycrate]

In fairness though, do posters have to have a thoroughly-planned out concept of a replacement or alternative for Horse? They're not Andrew Pridham or Tom Harley or any of the other execs who are paid good money to do the due diligence and make the necessary enquiries to land on the best coach possible.

I could just say 88 is a shit poster over and over. I don't need any facts to post that. I could keep posting it day in day out.

Or

I could have a cursory glance at his posting history and say he is sorta legit.

Just an analogy.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I could just say 88 is a shit poster over and over. I don't need any facts to post that. I could keep posting it day in day out.

Or

I could have a cursory glance at his posting history and say he is sorta legit.

Just an analogy.

88 is an award-winning dancer.

And that’s a fact.

 

[bedford]

If supporters like you had their way we would be a basket case next year.
Scandal: Coach sacked.
Scandal: Warner leaves club in disarray.
Scandal: Players disillusioned because of XYZ fallout of Warner exit.
Scandal: etc

Swans fans disillusioned with the club making soooo many grand finals and losing most of them and not moving on are seeing the glass half empty and not the glass half full.

We are close. And you want to throw a grenade into the club for losing a grand final.

Get a grip.

We are close. We need to tweak some things. Not wreak something.

We are one of the most successful clubs over the last 20 years. Yes it has not translated into premierships. But it still could. Next year. That is my hope.

Posters that want to blow up everything and throw the toys out of the cot because we lose a grand final. Yes it is disappointing. But would you rather be St Kilda, North, Gold Coast, Fremantle, Adelaide and other clubs less successful. Their fans are not being as high on the SACK THE COACH thermometer and they have not been anywhere near a grand final.

You lot that want to sack Horse, I think, are spoilt little brats throwing the toys out of the cot in a tantrum. You don't realise how good you have got it. Spoilt. I want everything. Now.

There are 18 teams vying for a premiership every year. We get close often. We are above the odds most years. It is very hard to win. 17 against 1. Every year.

And you anti Horse posters want to sack him. He has made the the final eight 12 times out of 14 times.

We are always close.

I have read plenty of posts wanting to Sack Horse.

I have not read many posts with alternatives to Horse as coach. Nor any solutions to what he should have done different. Those of you that have not provided anything as an alternative to Horse as coach are just throwing stones over the fence. You obviously have no positive solutions to your perceived grievance against the Swans and Horse. I just want to sack Horse. Waaa Waaa. Just more whining.

Maybe you can provide your solution to us winning more grand finals outside of just sack Horse.

Like your post , but on the day no attempt to change anything and man on man was 1 thing . He should stay for 25 and that's it

 

[bedford]

In fairness though, do posters have to have a thoroughly-planned out concept of a replacement or alternative for Horse? They're not Andrew Pridham or Tom Harley or any of the other execs who are paid good money to do the due diligence and make the necessary enquiries to land on the best coach possible.

Pridham is not paid

 

[wolftone57]

Enough of this stupid thread. The swans coaching team has been in at least the top quartile of all AFLM teams for the last 10 years.

It doesn't matter when it all comes down to it. The GF is the only one that counts. If you can't win them you have to get moved on. I made a prediction that has come true. We can't win another under Horse.

On CPH2471 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[rustycrate]

We have had some of the best talent as recognized by AA and other awards to just completely fall apart when its mattered

Focus? Motivation? all on the manager/coach of a sporting team.

Personally i think there is something seriously wrong to lose on both occasions to teams outside of the top 4! its such a colossal advantage in the AFL compared to other sports.

But Rusty we are not close what metric are you using to say we are close? imo this performance was backwards compared to 2022 we showed some fight in the 2nd and were 5 goals down at HT.

If you are in the GF you are close. I don't know how closer you can get to that.

 

[rustycrate]

Like your post , but on the day no attempt to change anything and man on man was 1 thing . He should stay for 25 and that's it

I think I have changed the fabric of this thread into a thoughtful one. I like it better now. Thoughtful thinking replies rather than reactionary rash replies.

My job is done.

The thread can meander its way wherever now.