It's quite obvious we overacheived last year. We had the easiest draw of all the clubs and Wallace had the element of surprise against other coaches.76 Gamer said:
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Sack Wallace!
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76 Gamer said:
We improved from 4 wins under spud in 2004 to 10 under Wallace in 2005. Fairly visible improvement there. Yet 3 games into 2006 you want to sack Wallace. Your measure of improvement is to win more games than last season or the coach is out. This type of short-sighted thinking has lead us to recruit no end of fringe players over the last 5-10 years so the coach can protect his job and win a few games with no long term improvement. Yes, we need to get rid of the loser mentality and develop a winning culture, but I don't think improvement this year is as simple as games won. That is the ultimate measure, but this year if we won 7 - 9 games (ie less wins than last year) but a lot of our younger players were playing good games more regularly, I would see that as a measure of improvement. We should still set our sights on playing finals this year, because that is what best drives players. But it will be the development of our younger players that will tell everyone whether or not the club is going anywhere.
You obviously overrate us.76 Gamer said:
Last year, turn around those victories which were under 15 points.
Round 2: vs Hawthorn (14 points)
Round 3: vs Bulldogs (4 points)
Round 9: vs Brisbane Lions (4 points)
Round 14: vs Sydney (1 point)
Round 21: vs Hawthorn (4 points)
We were lucky to fall over the line against these sides. If we hadn't we would've acheived 5 wins 17 losses, which is bottom-four.
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- #55
Crumden, I agree - I would be happy with nine wins this year as long as our young fellas keep improving, as long as they play out every game and as long as we don't get out coached. You should have spoken to a few of the boys after the Geelong match, there was chaos on the field in the second half. We were arguing with each other, no-one knew what they were doing - it was a disaster. That was fairly and squarely the fault of the coaching staff.
And don't get me started on fringe players. I'd be happy to sacrifice wins to get rid of Hall, Tivendale, Gaspar, Kellaway and even Simmonds out of the side so that we can play a few more young blokes.
And don't get me started on fringe players. I'd be happy to sacrifice wins to get rid of Hall, Tivendale, Gaspar, Kellaway and even Simmonds out of the side so that we can play a few more young blokes.
metallichris said:
Lucky to fall over the line??? You're now making 76's case for him
Considering the Hawks have a youth policy and have a much higher tolerance for copping short term pain for long term gain, you'd think not only would we beat them well last season but would flog them this one. If ever there was a case for getting rid of Darren Gaspar, Tivendale, Hall and Chaffey, there it is.
What is the difference between beating the dogs by 4 and getting smashed by them a year later by 115? Have they come so far in a year or have we fallen by so much?
You should have quit while you were ahead
Reluctantly agree. Of those four I would say we should definitely let go of Gaspar and Chaffey. I'll give Tivendale and Hall the benefit of the next 19 rounds.1980 said:
I think it's a bit of both. The Dogs matured into the team they are now in the second half of that season, and we have lost a fair amount of experience and unfortunately it seems our older players are diminishing at a higher rate than our young players are developing.1980 said:
Meh.1980 said:
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- #58
My point exactly, 1980 - good to see that there's someone else here talking some sense.
And what about Geelong? I can't remember what they beat us by in round 22 last year but I'm pretty sure it was less than 20 points. And then they flog us by 110!
I hope I'm wrong but it looks like we're going backwards.
Therefore, it's only fair that Wallace is put on notice - make decisions on the fringe players, get the list fit, lift their skill level and work out match day strategies.
If he can't at least do that after two years, he should be sacked.
And what about Geelong? I can't remember what they beat us by in round 22 last year but I'm pretty sure it was less than 20 points. And then they flog us by 110!
I hope I'm wrong but it looks like we're going backwards.
Therefore, it's only fair that Wallace is put on notice - make decisions on the fringe players, get the list fit, lift their skill level and work out match day strategies.
If he can't at least do that after two years, he should be sacked.
metallichris said:and unfortunately it seems our older players are dimishing at a higher rate than our young players are developing.
Meh.
Bingo!
Sadly that was always going to be the case...
metallichris said:Reluctantly agree. Of those four I would say we should definitely let go of Gaspar and Chaffey. I'll give Tivendale and Hall the benefit of the next 19 rounds.
I think it's a bit of both. The Dogs matured into the team they are now in the second half of that season, and we have lost a fair amount of experience and unfortunately it seems our older players are dimishing at a higher rate than our young players are developing.
Meh.
Cant argue with you Metalhead. You're making too much sense.
Because you agree that Gaspar should be kicked out, I'm going to respect every post you ever write again.
1980 said:
Coondog 17
Team Captain
76 gamer i know exactly where your coming from. Give it time and a few others in this thread will realize as well
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- #63
Get lost, Coondog.
My comments regarding Wallace are from the heart and are in the best interests of the Richmond Football Club - at least that's what I believe but many of my fellow Tiger supporters do not, which is OK.
I/we don't need some Scragga lobbing grenades into what is an already contentious discussion.
Go back to the Bulldogs boards.
My comments regarding Wallace are from the heart and are in the best interests of the Richmond Football Club - at least that's what I believe but many of my fellow Tiger supporters do not, which is OK.
I/we don't need some Scragga lobbing grenades into what is an already contentious discussion.
Go back to the Bulldogs boards.
- Banned
- #64
Funkyzeit mit Matt said:
hey funky, take the tip, you dont know it, or maybe you cant fathom it, but i have a feeling your team, are pretty much on the road to an extended period in sh-itesville as well.
76 Gamer said:
So let's just sack the coach every time we lose games. Is that what you're saying? Just mind boggling. Wallace has a 5 year contract and is giving fringe players an opportunity to prove themselves. A lot of them haven't and wont be there next year. You really think Wallace is that stupid??? He'll need 10 years to rebuild this club, not 5 after the mess frawley left us with.
itsintheblood said:
Yep, I'm with you Bloodman. Wallace was never going to come in and change things overnight. It was only just over a year ago he was cleaning out possum-mess out of our changerooms, and looking at the shocking state our players were in. I'm still happy we've got a coach that can communicate in a language that the public can understand, rather than the ol' "yeah nah, he was only 5% off this week, which is why we got beaten, but we'll stick fat and be cherry ripe for next week" jargon we had to listen to.
- Banned
- #67
itsintheblood said:
LMAO, kind of get a kick out of these threads.
How about we rekindle the other subject that goes hand in hand with a coaching saga and the tiges, BRING BACK SHEEDS!!!!! LMAO, fasten the seat belts.
The impatience, irrationality and sheer single-minded blindness of many Richmond supporters is largely responsible for the mediocrity of our once great club.
Too many people don't have the patience to do the genuine hard work needed to build something from the ground-up. 1 or 2 years into a rebuilding plan and there is a clamour for results-now and coaching changes.
Every time we begin the process we shoot ourselves in the foot as the club officials run scared of rabid and moronic fans.
Instead of having the self-belief, competence and leadership to continue building a side, Frawley felt the hot breath on his neck and topped-up with veterans to try and get immediate success. Instead of having the sense of security to let a Gaspar or Holland go, he couldn't face the Richmond fans after a poor season so kept his veterans at any cost.
Greg Miller is a guy who can stare down these fans. Form a plan and stick to it. Terry Wallace is a guy who can stare down these fans. Neither is going to run scared of coteries, player groups, sponsors or guys with trucks of chicken waste.
Neither guy is going to let the players run the club as happened in the past. Both have the reputations and status to make tough decisions and not need to apologise to anyone. Both can give the one finger salute to the fans and get on with the business of running the club ... which is exactly what we need.
The Richmond plan is clear to anyone with eyes who cares to look.
We are going for pace, pace, pace. Guys who run like the wind and kick the ball well. These guys Deledio, JON, Casserley, Tambling, Meyer, Raines will be brought in every year and we will keep turning them over until we have a 15 man midfield. It will take time. These types of players need 4 years, not 1 to get up to the standards of AFL fitness and competence.
We are developing mobile key position players. Guys like Thursfield who are running, rebounding defenders. Guys like Hughes who play more like Tarrant than Rocca.
The plan is there. For the first time in 25 years we have genuine leadership at the club who are committed to sticking to a plan and bringing it to fruition. Not a bunch of nuff-nuffs who will change and panic at the first sign of fan unrest.
The plan might not be he right one, but at least we have blokes with a vision of how the AFL will look in 5 years time and are building a team for that challenge.
Guys who are trying to build a team to challenge for premierships in 5 years and not caring about a finals appearance this year or next.
Eventually people will see that this year and next don't matter. That players like Gaspar, Tivendale, Chaffey and co don't matter. They are not part of the planning, they are not part of the future. They are simply place-holders. Taking the bumps and punishment (and losses) while we develop the kids to take their place.
They'll do their 1-2 years of service and then be pushed aside when the kids are ready. In exchange for being well paid duds for the past decade, they get to suffer the punishment of ending their career as fall-guys attracting the anger of the fans and losing most weeks.
Instead of having rabid fans pointing the finger at Tambling and wondering why he isn't a game-winner by 19, they can take out their anger on Tivendale while Tambling gets to take his time and grow into a player.
Finally thing start heading in the right directions and idiots who want success yesterday only want to tear it all up and start again.
Too many people don't have the patience to do the genuine hard work needed to build something from the ground-up. 1 or 2 years into a rebuilding plan and there is a clamour for results-now and coaching changes.
Every time we begin the process we shoot ourselves in the foot as the club officials run scared of rabid and moronic fans.
Instead of having the self-belief, competence and leadership to continue building a side, Frawley felt the hot breath on his neck and topped-up with veterans to try and get immediate success. Instead of having the sense of security to let a Gaspar or Holland go, he couldn't face the Richmond fans after a poor season so kept his veterans at any cost.
Greg Miller is a guy who can stare down these fans. Form a plan and stick to it. Terry Wallace is a guy who can stare down these fans. Neither is going to run scared of coteries, player groups, sponsors or guys with trucks of chicken waste.
Neither guy is going to let the players run the club as happened in the past. Both have the reputations and status to make tough decisions and not need to apologise to anyone. Both can give the one finger salute to the fans and get on with the business of running the club ... which is exactly what we need.
The Richmond plan is clear to anyone with eyes who cares to look.
We are going for pace, pace, pace. Guys who run like the wind and kick the ball well. These guys Deledio, JON, Casserley, Tambling, Meyer, Raines will be brought in every year and we will keep turning them over until we have a 15 man midfield. It will take time. These types of players need 4 years, not 1 to get up to the standards of AFL fitness and competence.
We are developing mobile key position players. Guys like Thursfield who are running, rebounding defenders. Guys like Hughes who play more like Tarrant than Rocca.
The plan is there. For the first time in 25 years we have genuine leadership at the club who are committed to sticking to a plan and bringing it to fruition. Not a bunch of nuff-nuffs who will change and panic at the first sign of fan unrest.
The plan might not be he right one, but at least we have blokes with a vision of how the AFL will look in 5 years time and are building a team for that challenge.
Guys who are trying to build a team to challenge for premierships in 5 years and not caring about a finals appearance this year or next.
Eventually people will see that this year and next don't matter. That players like Gaspar, Tivendale, Chaffey and co don't matter. They are not part of the planning, they are not part of the future. They are simply place-holders. Taking the bumps and punishment (and losses) while we develop the kids to take their place.
They'll do their 1-2 years of service and then be pushed aside when the kids are ready. In exchange for being well paid duds for the past decade, they get to suffer the punishment of ending their career as fall-guys attracting the anger of the fans and losing most weeks.
Instead of having rabid fans pointing the finger at Tambling and wondering why he isn't a game-winner by 19, they can take out their anger on Tivendale while Tambling gets to take his time and grow into a player.
Finally thing start heading in the right directions and idiots who want success yesterday only want to tear it all up and start again.
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- #69
Weaver said:
great post weave, but you kind of dont understand that there will always be a disgruntled supporter that needs to voice his frustration.
The funny thing is that you come up with this post, which is logical, but you know what? I cant see this kind of statement emanating from those who are supposed to be stating it.
Its no good keeping quiet and letting the supporters talk them up, those who you mention that have the balls to do what they are doing, should come out and clear the ledger, say it as it is, might do more good than keeping their mouths shut and letting weavers do the talking for them huh?
Excellent post, Weaver.
CoggaRules said:Its no good keeping quiet and letting the supporters talk them up, those who you mention that have the balls to do what they are doing, should come out and clear the ledger, say it as it is, might do more good than keeping their mouths shut and letting weavers do the talking for them huh?
They can't come out and say the next 2-3 years don't really matter and are about developing kids.
Half the members won't renew, the attendances will fall and the club will struggle with debt. Not only will that upset the administration, but it will mean cost-cutting in the footy departement including minimum salary caps, no new signings and not using the full list or full rookie list.
It will also mean that the Richo, Gaspar, Johnson, Bowden generation will just go through the motions and that will make things tougher on the kids. These veterans have to be 'tricked' into thinking that what they do matters. They need to be motivated.
Even with all that there is plenty of talk coming out of Wallace and co which makes it clear where the club is going.
CoggaRules said:great post weave, but you kind of dont understand that there will always be a disgruntled supporter that needs to voice his frustration.
The funny thing is that you come up with this post, which is logical, but you know what? I cant see this kind of statement emanating from those who are supposed to be stating it.
Its no good keeping quiet and letting the supporters talk them up, those who you mention that have the balls to do what they are doing, should come out and clear the ledger, say it as it is, might do more good than keeping their mouths shut and letting weavers do the talking for them huh?
In this ever increasing politcally correct, morally upright footy world, it's pretty tough for anyone actually answering to the AFL (maybe with the exception of Akker) to come out and say this. It would please me no end to hear from Wallace "look we all know Gaspar's a hack, and owes us, but we'll let him get the christ kicked out of him until Thursfield's back before we rack him off". But I'd imagine you'd also have a lot of members think "this Wallace clown is nuts" if he actually did come out and say this. Let's be honest, looking at the dimensions of most footy fans, I'm tipping there isn't an abundance of Rhode Scholars out there, and telling them that where more than likely going to lose this weekend wouldn't float with them, regardless of what you're long-term intentions are. A lot of members would want to be molly-coddled with this thinking, giving them an inkling of hope for the current season, rather than looking at the big picture.
I actually paid my membership this year for the first time in many years thinking, "regardless of results this year, we are now moving in the right direction". I agreed with whoever on these boards said last year that just because we got rid of Frawley, we hadn't bottomed out completely yet, and to go forwards we had to go backwards first.
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- #73
Harvey Leadpipe said:
misunderstood me HL, not suggesting they single out players, just come out and tell the tiger army and the "wannabe" tiger army, that we are where we are and we are not, where we dont want to be.
Give you a tip, IMO, there are more tiger supporters that see the negatives than those who see the positives, e.g. we win a couple of games against say the blues and the demons, what percentage of tiger heads are going to suggest, we are the real deal, we have turned the corner, we are marching into the 8?.
So the name of the game is to change their thinking, not by results, the negative thinkers, dont look at "a" or "a few" results, they look at the structure of the team and how they move the ball, ontop of seeing the same old same old, do what they have been doing forever. These are the people that need to "HAVE" their minds changed, not for them to change their minds, just because they need to. And time will do that, but to suggest the supporters need to be quiet and shut up etc etc is ridiculous, the people in charge get paid the bucks to do a job, and the job descripition has that included, have to bear the brunt of supporters angst.
If they didnt think that would happen, or they were dreaming of this super smooth 5 years, where they did anything they liked, without supporters saying boo, then with all due respect, they are dreaming, which isnt the case, but god help us if they do actually think that, because that indirectly means that they dont really have a clue as to what is invloved in real PR.
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- #74
Weaver is right about the need for a youth policy and the fact that it takes time. And he is also right about the need to keep a winning feeling around the footy club to keep the players, supporters and sponsors interested. It's a question of managing short term and long term - the ultimate headache.
But at this stage, in the second year of Plough's plan, Richmond supporters shouldn't be happy with going backwards, should we?
But at this stage, in the second year of Plough's plan, Richmond supporters shouldn't be happy with going backwards, should we?
Weaver said:
No-one's going to argue with that Weaver.
But we dont live in a silo, and we do play against other teams. The signs are that the Dogs are not just ahead of us, but WAY ahead. If the Hawks pull ahead and their own youth policy, which mind you started earlier than ours and goes much deeper, brings them results in year 3 instead of year 5, where will that leave us?
Surely we need to be close to where the Dogs are, and well ahead of where the Hawks are. And the question is, are we???
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