Sack Wallace!

[CoggaRules]

Weaver is right about the need for a youth policy and the fact that it takes time. And he is also right about the need to keep a winning feeling around the footy club to keep the players, supporters and sponsors interested. It's a question of managing short term and long term - the ultimate headache.

But at this stage, in the second year of Plough's plan, Richmond supporters shouldn't be happy with going backwards, should we?

not really there 76er. If you are opened minded about the whole deal, then you would be mistaken if you thought that going backwards was not an option in your thinking. Even to the extent of year 3 being the same.
By that time, another group of senior also rans would have just about shot their bolt, and been gracefully escorted to the punt rd exit door, and then we get into the , youth gathering experience phase, which comes with the same butt kicking that we are enduiring now. But hoepfully soon we will start to see the emergence of the core group of on ball youngsters, ala, Freeza-Lambo-Knights, that emerged in the dark days. THe only difference is that nowadays that core should number 5 or above. We are only really at 2, tops now. Not factoring in the coggas and tucks, by the time the young core has been found a formed, these 2 will be the "experienced heads" that steady the ship.

 

[ozserpico66]

Instead of having the self-belief, competence and leadership to continue building a side, Frawley felt the hot breath on his neck and topped-up with veterans to try and get immediate success. Instead of having the sense of security to let a Gaspar or Holland go, he couldn't face the Richmond fans after a poor season so kept his veterans at any cost.

Looks like Dean Laidley is following the same plan...

 

[starkravenmad2]

Surely we need to be close to where the Dogs are, and well ahead of where the Hawks are. And the question is, are we???

We should be ahead of the hawks but only just,...as for the bullies they should be and are along way ahead as there senior group is much better than ours as is there 2nd tier players and there youngsters are comming along really well,thats why they be fighting for top 8 and we will be fighting for bottom 6

 

[1980]

We should be ahead of the hawks but only just,...as for the bullies they should be and are along way ahead as there senior group is much better than ours as is there 2nd tier players and there youngsters are comming along really well,thats why they be fighting for top 8 and we will be fighting for bottom 6

We were ahead of the Hawks last season. We were close to the Bullies too.

Just want to see that this season we dont fall too far behind the latter, and continue to stay ahead of the former. Thats all. If we dont, I reckon 5 year plans are just a get of jail free card for the coach. Miller was already playing that card 3 years before Wallace even arrived

 

[starkravenmad2]

We were ahead of the Hawks last season. We were close to the Bullies too.

Just want to see that this season we dont fall too far behind the latter, and continue to stay ahead of the former. Thats all. If we dont, I reckon 5 year plans are just a get of jail free card for the coach. Miller was already playing that card 3 years before Wallace even arrived

To be honest i wish TW took the hawks path and got rid of gasper etc and just went for youth,specially because the hawks now look like having a team that will grow together for years and become a force....looking at us im not sure we not just doing the same as we always do..get 2-3 top liners and expecting them to do it all,while we top up with other clubs rejects

 

[1980]

To be honest i wish TW took the hawks path and got rid of gasper etc and just went for youth,specially because the hawks now look like having a team that will grow together for years and become a force....looking at us im not sure we not just doing the same as we always do..get 2-3 top liners and expecting them to do it all,while we top up with other clubs rejects

That makes 2 of us starkers. I wish the exact same thing.

 

[Weaver]

To be honest i wish TW took the hawks path and got rid of gasper etc and just went for youth,specially because the hawks now look like having a team that will grow together for years and become a force....looking at us im not sure we not just doing the same as we always do..get 2-3 top liners and expecting them to do it all,while we top up with other clubs rejects

But the Hawks didn't do that. When Everitt and Crawford were rumoured to be leaving last year they fought to keep them. They also have kept Vandenburg, Smith, Crawford, Barker, Dixon who are all 29 or older.

They have replaced their veterans one by one with Graham, Thompson, Hay, Lekkas and co leaving. Which is exactly what we are doing.

The exciting youth team is actually built around those veterans and a core of guys in that key 22-26 age group. Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Williams, Ladson, Sewell, Osborne, Campbell, Bateman, Clarke, Jacobs, Croad, Guerra ... not a kid amongst them. They are all 5-year veterans at least.

The Hawks team at Geelong contained NO first-year players. Lewis, Young and Roughead are 2nd year players. Dawson a third year player. That is their youth. Four kids.

Richmond played 3rd year players Hartigan, Raines, Roach and Jackson. 2nd year players Deledio and Tambling. We had more kids on the field than they did.

 

[Weaver]

Surely we need to be close to where the Dogs are, and well ahead of where the Hawks are. And the question is, are we???

Brian Harris, Robert Murphy, Wayde Skipper, Sam Power, Jordan McMahon, Daniel Cross and Mathew Boyd are all 23-24 this year. That are Pat Bowden's age.

They are a veteran team. Everyone is over the of 23 except their two gun kids Cooney and Griffen and ruckman Minson (who is 21 and in his fourth season).

'Kids' like Gilbee, Hahn, Giansiracusa have been around 7 years.

 

[1980]

But the Hawks didn't do that. When Everitt and Crawford were rumoured to be leaving last year they fought to keep them. They also have kept Vandenburg, Smith, Crawford, Barker, Dixon who are all 29 or older.

They have replaced their veterans one by one with Graham, Thompson, Hay, Lekkas and co leaving. Which is exactly what we are doing.

The exciting youth team is actually built around those veterans and a core of guys in that key 22-26 age group. Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Williams, Ladson, Sewell, Osborne, Campbell, Bateman, Clarke, Jacobs, Croad, Guerra ... not a kid amongst them. They are all 5-year veterans at least.

The Hawks team at Geelong contained NO first-year players. Lewis, Young and Roughead are 2nd year players. Dawson a third year player. That is their youth. Four kids.

Richmond played 3rd year players Hartigan, Raines, Roach and Jackson. 2nd year players Deledio and Tambling. We had more kids on the field than they did.

That's just an exercise in selective analysis.

The facts of the matter are that they've gotten rid of a bunch of experienced players in a very short space of time, regardless of past deeds or reputations.

Add Nick Holland and Rawlings to your list.

We continue to persist with the likes of Stafford, Chaffey, Gaspar and we replace veterans like Campbell with nobodys like P Bowden.

Fact of the matter is we should be doing to Gaspar and Stafford what the Hawks had the courage to do to Holland and Hay. Hay was 26 and an AA when he got the a rs. Thats what we're defining as youth policy, not how many first year players are in the team.

 

[starkravenmad2]

But the Hawks didn't do that. When Everitt and Crawford were rumoured to be leaving last year they fought to keep them. They also have kept Vandenburg, Smith, Crawford, Barker, Dixon who are all 29 or older.

They have replaced their veterans one by one with Graham, Thompson, Hay, Lekkas and co leaving. Which is exactly what we are doing.

The exciting youth team is actually built around those veterans and a core of guys in that key 22-26 age group. Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Williams, Ladson, Sewell, Osborne, Campbell, Bateman, Clarke, Jacobs, Croad, Guerra ... not a kid amongst them. They are all 5-year veterans at least.

The Hawks team at Geelong contained NO first-year players. Lewis, Young and Roughead are 2nd year players. Dawson a third year player. That is their youth. Four kids.

Richmond played 3rd year players Hartigan, Raines, Roach and Jackson. 2nd year players Deledio and Tambling. We had more kids on the field than they did.

while that may be true weaver,the older players they have kept are worth a hell of a lot more than our older players,and all the 22-26 age group proves when compared to us is the hawks are getting it right and we sadly are failing again
while they only had 4 kids playing and we had more we were flogged and they won,so i have no idea what that means one way or the other lol

 

[froars]

while that may be true weaver,the older players they have kept are worth a hell of a lot more than our older players,and all the 22-26 age group proves when compared to us is the hawks are getting it right and we sadly are failing again
while they only had 4 kids playing and we had more we were flogged and they won,so i have no idea what that means one way or the other lol

Did you rate Graham, Hilton, Morrison ahead of Chaffey, Gas, Richo, Kellaway.
I'm sure some would, but i don't, and they were the players we got rid of last year, plus the retirement of Campbell. Add to that the heap the year before and there's been quite a turnover already. These are just the dregs that Weaver says will cop all the abuse until the new crop come up (poor bastards)

You just can't turnover that many players, there aren't that many draft picks to cover the lot. Even if you could, we don't have the middle depth of players to take over the experience lost and leave just kids to run around like chooks with their heads chopped off, and that's what they'd be. Everyone is just gonna have to face the fact it's gonna take a few more years yet.

I have foggy memories of how we used to idolise players who played for us - distant memories

 

[Heisenberg_]

The impatience, irrationality and sheer single-minded blindness of many Richmond supporters is largely responsible for the mediocrity of our once great club.

Too many people don't have the patience to do the genuine hard work needed to build something from the ground-up. 1 or 2 years into a rebuilding plan and there is a clamour for results-now and coaching changes.

Every time we begin the process we shoot ourselves in the foot as the club officials run scared of rabid and moronic fans.

Instead of having the self-belief, competence and leadership to continue building a side, Frawley felt the hot breath on his neck and topped-up with veterans to try and get immediate success. Instead of having the sense of security to let a Gaspar or Holland go, he couldn't face the Richmond fans after a poor season so kept his veterans at any cost.

Greg Miller is a guy who can stare down these fans. Form a plan and stick to it. Terry Wallace is a guy who can stare down these fans. Neither is going to run scared of coteries, player groups, sponsors or guys with trucks of chicken waste.

Neither guy is going to let the players run the club as happened in the past. Both have the reputations and status to make tough decisions and not need to apologise to anyone. Both can give the one finger salute to the fans and get on with the business of running the club ... which is exactly what we need.

The Richmond plan is clear to anyone with eyes who cares to look.

We are going for pace, pace, pace. Guys who run like the wind and kick the ball well. These guys Deledio, JON, Casserley, Tambling, Meyer, Raines will be brought in every year and we will keep turning them over until we have a 15 man midfield. It will take time. These types of players need 4 years, not 1 to get up to the standards of AFL fitness and competence.

We are developing mobile key position players. Guys like Thursfield who are running, rebounding defenders. Guys like Hughes who play more like Tarrant than Rocca.

The plan is there. For the first time in 25 years we have genuine leadership at the club who are committed to sticking to a plan and bringing it to fruition. Not a bunch of nuff-nuffs who will change and panic at the first sign of fan unrest.

The plan might not be he right one, but at least we have blokes with a vision of how the AFL will look in 5 years time and are building a team for that challenge.

Guys who are trying to build a team to challenge for premierships in 5 years and not caring about a finals appearance this year or next.

Eventually people will see that this year and next don't matter. That players like Gaspar, Tivendale, Chaffey and co don't matter. They are not part of the planning, they are not part of the future. They are simply place-holders. Taking the bumps and punishment (and losses) while we develop the kids to take their place.

They'll do their 1-2 years of service and then be pushed aside when the kids are ready. In exchange for being well paid duds for the past decade, they get to suffer the punishment of ending their career as fall-guys attracting the anger of the fans and losing most weeks.

Instead of having rabid fans pointing the finger at Tambling and wondering why he isn't a game-winner by 19, they can take out their anger on Tivendale while Tambling gets to take his time and grow into a player.

Finally thing start heading in the right directions and idiots who want success yesterday only want to tear it all up and start again.

great post as usual, pity somee of the more irrational posters will probably argue about it

 

[Terry Tan]

WOW what a raging debate!

A funny thing happened today - KRock commentator (& ex Channel 7) called TW the "Baron of Bullsiht" cos he talks a lot and does little. What a great line. That will have the solariumed one spewing.

Anyway, I reckon we are in for a really hard year. We won't beat Brisbane this week, and we won't beat Carlton. The $hits goings to hit the fan when we only win 2 games for the year.

Hope I'm wrong, but I'm getting a really bad feeling

 

[oxx]

That makes 2 of us starkers. I wish the exact same thing.

I too look 4ward to the unceremonious dismissals of the dud brigade.

Gotta agree with Weaverdom in regards to the Hawks not actually taking such a path.

 

[Numpty Tiger]

Yup, one more coach sacking would just about do it, I reckon. Would see us broke and shunted off to the Gold Coast for sure!

76 gamer: you seem to have achieved what many before you couldn't - you have united a vast majority of tiger fans (in opposition to your suggestion, of course!).

 

[IDGAF]

The impatience, irrationality and sheer single-minded blindness of many Richmond supporters is largely responsible for the mediocrity of our once great club.

Too many people don't have the patience to do the genuine hard work needed to build something from the ground-up. 1 or 2 years into a rebuilding plan and there is a clamour for results-now and coaching changes.

Every time we begin the process we shoot ourselves in the foot as the club officials run scared of rabid and moronic fans.

Instead of having the self-belief, competence and leadership to continue building a side, Frawley felt the hot breath on his neck and topped-up with veterans to try and get immediate success. Instead of having the sense of security to let a Gaspar or Holland go, he couldn't face the Richmond fans after a poor season so kept his veterans at any cost.

Greg Miller is a guy who can stare down these fans. Form a plan and stick to it. Terry Wallace is a guy who can stare down these fans. Neither is going to run scared of coteries, player groups, sponsors or guys with trucks of chicken waste.

Neither guy is going to let the players run the club as happened in the past. Both have the reputations and status to make tough decisions and not need to apologise to anyone. Both can give the one finger salute to the fans and get on with the business of running the club ... which is exactly what we need.

The Richmond plan is clear to anyone with eyes who cares to look.

We are going for pace, pace, pace. Guys who run like the wind and kick the ball well. These guys Deledio, JON, Casserley, Tambling, Meyer, Raines will be brought in every year and we will keep turning them over until we have a 15 man midfield. It will take time. These types of players need 4 years, not 1 to get up to the standards of AFL fitness and competence.

We are developing mobile key position players. Guys like Thursfield who are running, rebounding defenders. Guys like Hughes who play more like Tarrant than Rocca.

The plan is there. For the first time in 25 years we have genuine leadership at the club who are committed to sticking to a plan and bringing it to fruition. Not a bunch of nuff-nuffs who will change and panic at the first sign of fan unrest.

The plan might not be he right one, but at least we have blokes with a vision of how the AFL will look in 5 years time and are building a team for that challenge.

Guys who are trying to build a team to challenge for premierships in 5 years and not caring about a finals appearance this year or next.

Eventually people will see that this year and next don't matter. That players like Gaspar, Tivendale, Chaffey and co don't matter. They are not part of the planning, they are not part of the future. They are simply place-holders. Taking the bumps and punishment (and losses) while we develop the kids to take their place.

They'll do their 1-2 years of service and then be pushed aside when the kids are ready. In exchange for being well paid duds for the past decade, they get to suffer the punishment of ending their career as fall-guys attracting the anger of the fans and losing most weeks.

Instead of having rabid fans pointing the finger at Tambling and wondering why he isn't a game-winner by 19, they can take out their anger on Tivendale while Tambling gets to take his time and grow into a player.

Finally thing start heading in the right directions and idiots who want success yesterday only want to tear it all up and start again.

LMAOOOO @ the first time i have seen you be positive about the RFC in two years .

.... but that is a ripping post Weaver

 

[Ghost of 1965]

LMAOOOO @ the first time i have seen you be positive about the RFC in two years .

.... but that is a ripping post Weaver

The plan is there, we were warned not to expect too much this year.

Our time will come.

'65

Now if I can only convince the 17yo and 19yo boys as well.

 

[IDGAF]

No-one's going to argue with that Weaver.

But we dont live in a silo, and we do play against other teams. The signs are that the Dogs are not just ahead of us, but WAY ahead. If the Hawks pull ahead and their own youth policy, which mind you started earlier than ours and goes much deeper, brings them results in year 3 instead of year 5, where will that leave us?

Surely we need to be close to where the Dogs are, and well ahead of where the Hawks are. And the question is, are we???

Mate ...seriously , time to pull our heads in and just concentrate on what is going on in our own backyard and our game plan .

Personally ...IDGAF about the Hawks this and the Bullies that ... F..k em` . The bullies have been 5-6 years in the making and thier senior core schits all over ours and the Hawks , well the jury is still way , way out on them . They beat Freo in Tassie - hardly a ground breaking achievement , and the Cats probably had thier worst day out in three years ... looooong way to go

We all rejoiced when we signed Wallace ... the chosen one to deliver us from the wilderness .

He came to us with a game plan , and we will stick to it .

People scoff at us for giving the bloke 5 years .. i say it was wise , almost a masterstroke . Our list was that rooted when he walked in the door 5 years will only really be scratching the surface . Fast forward 1 season and three games and already we have d..kheads like 76 gamer calling for his head . Plough and Miller knew this would happen , it is ingrained in us . So they acted accordingly .

I cannot tell you how hilariously short sighted it is to be questioning Wallace already ... LMAOOOOO

I could go on but Weaver has already illustrated it better than i could

 

[jackson_rules]

The plan is there, we were warned not to expect too much this year.

Our time will come.

'65

Now if I can only convince the 17yo and 19yo boys as well.

2 bad its the 17-19 yr olds that stick up for the club and the long term plan, try convincing the 30-50 year olds

 

[Coondog 17]

Get lost, Coondog.

My comments regarding Wallace are from the heart and are in the best interests of the Richmond Football Club - at least that's what I believe but many of my fellow Tiger supporters do not, which is OK.

I/we don't need some Scragga lobbing grenades into what is an already contentious discussion.

Go back to the Bulldogs boards.

What your saying about him not being a good match day coach are spot on. We saw the same thing at the Bulldogs. Yes he had a couple of good years but he had a pretty good list and an all australian CHF but as soon as other coaches worked us out it was the end for Wallace.
He Peter Rhode and maybe even Grant Thomas are the same as they are not match day coaches but would be ideal as football managers.

 

[1980GFVideo]

2 bad its the 17-19 yr olds that stick up for the club and the long term plan, try convincing the 30-50 year olds

And credit to them.

Thank god they do otherwise we would be in some membership strife as the last fans to see success are in thier mid thirties at youngest.

I think the young supporters have real charachter to barrack for a team not based on success. (I would exclude Bentleigh but I dont know how old he is)

But we mid thirties and over remember success.

The days when you didnt get excited by your top draft pick beating another draft pick in a foot race but actual victories and finals.

The days when we didnt talk about positives,light in the tunnell and five year plans.

 

[CoggaRules]

We all rejoiced when we signed Wallace ... the chosen one to deliver us from the wilderness .

He came to us with a game plan , and we will stick to it .

ahhhhum there ID, kind of think that is why we didnt get him, if you know what I mean. Hint: Spud(DUD cant help saying it but he is one with a diploma) = 1 game plan that we stuck to.

 

[1980]

Mate ...seriously , time to pull our heads in and just concentrate on what is going on in our own backyard and our game plan .

Personally ...IDGAF about the Hawks this and the Bullies that ... F..k em` . The bullies have been 5-6 years in the making and thier senior core schits all over ours and the Hawks , well the jury is still way , way out on them . They beat Freo in Tassie - hardly a ground breaking achievement , and the Cats probably had thier worst day out in three years ... looooong way to go

We all rejoiced when we signed Wallace ... the chosen one to deliver us from the wilderness .

He came to us with a game plan , and we will stick to it .

People scoff at us for giving the bloke 5 years .. i say it was wise , almost a masterstroke . Our list was that rooted when he walked in the door 5 years will only really be scratching the surface . Fast forward 1 season and three games and already we have d..kheads like 76 gamer calling for his head . Plough and Miller knew this would happen , it is ingrained in us . So they acted accordingly .

I cannot tell you how hilariously short sighted it is to be questioning Wallace already ... LMAOOOOO

I could go on but Weaver has already illustrated it better than i could

IDGAF, seriously, you're right. But what surprises me most is how many people got fired up about it on this board, instead of just laughing it off. I think it says something about how some richmond supporters think we're travelling with an overreaction like that.

But I also reckon 5 year plans are get out of jail free cards. Frawley had 5 years. Takes 5 years to become competitive? Just look at Wallace himself. He turned the dogs around from the first day he was appointed coach there. He made them competitive in his first 6 months. Bulldogs went from 15th in 96 to 3rd in 97. 3rd again in 98.

How long before we see it at Punt Rd? 3rd is a stretch, but what is it we should be aiming for this season? 8 wins? 8th place? Just please not 9th.

76er has been naive posting about sacking wallace, but he's made some relevant points about seeing the team progress. I dont believe for a minute in anyone getting get out of jail free cards. Thats exactly what Danny Frawley had. If Wallace can do one thing, its get more out of the existing player list. He's proved it before with the Dogs. We saw signs of it last season. Recruiting quality is a top priority, but the players that walk on the ground every weekend must give their best, and its the coaches job to make sure they do. We'll be a far better club if we get more out of the list we've got, instead of just selling future plans like a dotcom. I was more convinced we were last year than this one.

 

[jake]

But I also reckon 5 year plans are get out of jail free cards. Frawley had 5 years. Takes 5 years to become competitive? Just look at Wallace himself. He turned the dogs around from the first day he was appointed coach there. He made them competitive in his first 6 months. Bulldogs went from 15th in 96 to 3rd in 97. 3rd again in 98.

I'm gonna give Wallace the benefit of the doubt for now. Footy is more demanding these days with nearly all the interstate clubs up and running fast. If he says he is going to take one step back to take two steps forward then that is fine, but the first step forward must be in 2008, otherwise I will be running out of patience. Even Frawley could get an average team up for one season, so I don't think that should be any measure of a coach.

How long before we see it at Punt Rd? 3rd is a stretch, but what is it we should be aiming for this season? 8 wins? 8th place? Just please not 9th.

I'd cop 12th-15th this season 8th-10th next and top 8 the season after that. But I'm more interested in midterm planning than short term results. I want to see tough decisions made. We need to be proactive recruiters. What if Coughlan becomes a 10-12 handball 5-7 kick player for the whole season. Do we speak to clubs? I think we should. I'm not so interested in where we finish this season or next but what decisions we make along the way.

 

[1980]

I'd cop 12th-15th this season 8th-10th next and top 8 the season after that. But I'm more interested in midterm planning than short term results. I want to see tough decisions made. We need to be proactive recruiters. What if Coughlan becomes a 10-12 handball 5-7 kick player for the whole season. Do we speak to clubs? I think we should. I'm not so interested in where we finish this season or next but what decisions we make along the way.

If anyone on this board disagrees with this post, they are ********ed in the head.