said Thankyou Mark Duffield

[meima]

You guys should attend training. These guys can kick, and reliably hit targets.

Something is wrong though because under pressure one game day too many are ******* up basic skill executions.

I went to training , there is minimum pressure when they kick , is understandable as you don't want injuries. When the pressure is on they just rush it or kick sky high.

 

[Proud SJW]

Too much is being made of this "effort before skills" thing anyway.

When someone says "we value effort over skills" it doesn't mean we don't value skills. It means we value one thing more than the other.
It's just the media (and supporters) taking a negative inflection on a statement and running with it. Being journalists, you'd think they'd have a slightly better grasp of English.

If you think about it, you could go the other way too.
What if someone said "we value skills more than effort" and everyone took it to mean effort isn't valued?
Then you'd have a team full of Colin bloody Sylvias.
Yeah. Been there. No thanks.

That our skills are bloody poor at the moment doesn't mean we've stopped trying to refine them, it's a stupid bloody beat up.
I do not believe Fremantle is a poorly skilled team (not including Dawson). The execution is being affected by confidence and poor structure.

It's not like Brad Hill kicked poorly a couple of times yesterday because he suddenly forgot how to kick, and it's not like he forgot how to kick because someone forgot to remind him at training because we were too busy telling him to put more effort in.

The whole conversation is getting ludicrous.

 

[meima]

Too much is being made of this "effort before skills" thing anyway.

When someone says "we value effort over skills" it doesn't mean we don't value skills. It means we value one thing more than the other.
It's just the media (and supporters) taking a negative inflection on a statement and running with it. Being journalists, you'd think they'd have a slightly better grasp of English.

If you think about it, you could go the other way too.
What if someone said "we value skills more than effort" and everyone took it to mean effort isn't valued?
Then you'd have a team full of Colin bloody Sylvias.
Yeah. Been there. No thanks.

That our skills are bloody poor at the moment doesn't mean we've stopped trying to refine them, it's a stupid bloody beat up.
I do not believe Fremantle is a poorly skilled team (not including Dawson). The execution is being affected by confidence and poor structure.

It's not like Brad Hill kicked poorly a couple of times yesterday because he suddenly forgot how to kick, and it's not like he forgot how to kick because someone forgot to remind him at training because we were too busy telling him to put more effort in.

The whole conversation is getting ludicrous.

If Your English is better why don't you be the journalists. Is like you know a lot better than anybody else.

 

[refresh]

You guys should attend training. These guys can kick, and reliably hit targets.

Something is wrong though because under pressure one game day too many are ******* up basic skill executions.

I agree. These guys are AFL footballers and to say they collectively can't kick or lack skill is looking at it too simply. There will individually be better kicks, worse kicks, better skills, worse skills throughout the competition.

Something else is wrong.

My guess is they are playing scared timid football afraid to make a mistake. When they have possession they stop and look to pass the responsibility to someone else. It is poor decision making that is the cause of the skill deterioration and lack of confidence.

not sure why they are scared of error but I would be firstly looking at the message communication from the coaches

 

[Nightrain]

If we didn't fix poor skills and our inability to run the ball out of the backline in the last 6 months how likely is it we do it now, during the season.

We have wasted the off season and the JLT thinking our 2013 backline of Spurr, Dawson, Sutty, Johnson, Ibbo could get it done.

It was clear as ******* day that good teams have great run out of the backline and we thought we could go back to our dour defence and it would work. It's either arrogance or stupidity that got us in this bind and I'm not sure which is worse.

We are trying. It's why Weller is playing out of position in the backline. And we've had S. Hill there and Sherro. It's not like the coaching panel don't know this. Problem is, guys like Sherro and Weller aren't great defenders.

 

[Proud SJW]

If Your English is better why don't you be the journalists. Is like you know a lot better than anybody else.

I'd like to think I have too much integrity to become a journalist. Also, I think most people would fall asleep reading what I write sometimes.

Regarding the interpretation of Lyon's (and Pavlich's) comments, though - do you think I'm wrong? Do you think they meant they don't value skills?

 

[meima]

I'd like to think I have too much integrity to become a journalist. Also, I think most people would fall asleep reading what I write sometimes.

Regarding the interpretation of Lyon's (and Pavlich's) comments, though - do you think I'm wrong? Do you think they meant they don't value skills?

You are not wrong , but to mention it to the media your players want the focus on other stuff rather than skill just give a loophole for the media to attack ross himself when thing don't go right for your team .

 

[Nightrain]

We are now going to change our personnel according to Ross' presser, he was blunt about what needed to happen to keep playing and it didn't now changes will be forced, Ibbo and Johnno will be 2 of the first to go as they were already shifted forward on Sunday as they couldn't deliver out of defense, Dawson would be another likely to go, Expect Hughes, Collins, Balic (mid tho) and Sheridan all to come in to sure up the backline.

Balic in the backline? Is he quick off the mark and can he defend? By all reports in the Peel thread he's not the quickest bloke and looks lax-ical.

 

[Nightrain]

You guys should attend training. These guys can kick, and reliably hit targets.

Something is wrong though because under pressure one game day too many are ******* up basic skill executions.

I have been and for a non-pressure environment they should be better.

It's not just the missing of targets that hurt us.

During the Geelong game, I watched how we had the ball in defence and Suban was waiting, un-marked, just outside our defensive 50 and I think it was either Sutcliffe or Tucker with ball. The only option was to kick to Suban and that's what he did. But it wasn't a kick to advantage, it was a looping 45m kick on top of his head. The trajectory of the ball gave Blicavs enough time to run from 30m away, spoil, take Suban down at the same time, pick the ball up and hit a target in their forward line. Instead of putting it on his head you would think that an AFL footballer would instinctively kick it either infront or boundary side so that Suban is not standing there like a sitting duck and Blicavs has less chance of the spoil as he has to run further.

Then I watch teams like the saints on the w/e who were pinging worm burners out of their defence. Eagles had no chance of stopping the ball coming out as it was flat, fast and precise.

So whilst our kicks maybe on target some of the time, we always allow the opposition a chance to spoil because of our poor kick selection or lack of confidence/skill to be able to execute that "no-chance-to-spoil" kick. Our kicks are soft and lack conviction.

Then there are our handballs....

 

[Shadow Man]

Balic in the backline? Is he quick off the mark and can he defend? By all reports in the Peel thread he's not the quickest bloke and looks lax-ical.

he can look how he likes if he get's it 30 odd times..

 

[Lachy96]

One thing i have noticed which i think makes our ball movement look even worse than it is, is our inability to spread and get into space. We have noone bar fyfe who can actually take contested marks on a regular basis, so kicking to one on ones or to a pack never works and almost always results in a turnover.

Im hoping with this injection of youth ross is going to give the young guys the freedom to run and carry and create, taking the game on and playing some exciting instintive footy that won the bulldogs a premiership from 7th spot! I think lyon really needs to evolve because his defensive, low scoring gameplan just wont get it done anymore no matter who the personel.

Its going to be a long road back to performing to the high standards we have in the past but hopefully ross can come up with something to develop the young players and play semi-competitive football for the rest of the season.

 

[imperial_oz]

Mark Duffield article in today's Game section of The West has nailed it beautifully. The Dockers have the worst skill level in the AFL and a coach who values "effort" above skill level in his coaching philosophies.

I quote Duffield "..Not the players, regardless of what coaching focusses are, are full-time athletes who have let their own skill levels slide to appoint where they uncompetitive in the AFL.

Also " to cure the disease you must admit what it is: this is a crisis in confidence borne by a skill level
that is now arguably the worst in the AFL"

Duffield also no one should avoid scrutiny - Lyon and his coaching methods/beliefs, the board for endorsing lyon's methods & beliefs till 2020 and the players and their skill level.

V Cats 7 of first 11 Cat goals from Dockers clangers worse V Power 10 of Power first 12 goals from Docker turnovers.

You know things have completely turned to s*** when Mark Duffield start making sense.

Oh well, at least we have crumpet face to keep the bar low.

 

[igon value]

You guys should attend training. These guys can kick, and reliably hit targets.

Something is wrong though because under pressure one game day too many are ******* up basic skill executions.

So can I at training.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

You know things have completely turned to s*** when Mark Duffield start making sense.

Oh well, at least we have crumpet face to keep the bar low.

I think Mark Duffield is a very good journo, I reckon he makes good sense in articles I have read?
Haggers is one different dude and always recanting his statements and twists them - says "good call, good call" one hell of a lot on 6pr - strokes Langdon ego and is bend over - take one in the date - yes man to anything Sheagles.
Duff man is alright in my book.

 

[Outshined]

Duffield's alright, but it's not groundbreaking to realise that essentially everything is wrong with Freo.

 

[Dockernut]

You guys should attend training. These guys can kick, and reliably hit targets.

Something is wrong though because under pressure one game day too many are ******* up basic skill executions.

Agreed. The reason that shit-trucks in other some teams have improved (someone mentioned Masten for example) is because their teammates are coached to work hard to create space, and those instructions are followed. If your teammates are working for you to provide a shepherd, clear space and give you an opportunity to dispose of the pill cleanly, you'll look like a gun every time.

 

[noone]

I thought Hale and Guerra were meant to fix the kicking?

After reading Ross's press conference, I have a bit more faith than yesterday. I dare say those that lose their spot have pretty much lost it for good.

Where do you read it mate? I can never hear the ****ing questions they ask, I always like to listen to post game when coaches are under pressure.

 

[Wally Walpamur]

Where do you read it mate? I can never hear the ******* questions they ask, I always like to listen to post game when coaches are under pressure.

http://m.fremantlefc.com.au/news/2017-04-02/ross-lyon-postmatch-q-a-rd-2-v-port
On the Freo website after each game.

 

[dominguez]

Too much is being made of this "effort before skills" thing anyway.

When someone says "we value effort over skills" it doesn't mean we don't value skills. It means we value one thing more than the other.
It's just the media (and supporters) taking a negative inflection on a statement and running with it. Being journalists, you'd think they'd have a slightly better grasp of English.

A lot of the guys that have recently left (Barlow, De Boer, Mzungu, Crowley) and those on the way out (Johnson, Griffin, Zach, Ballantyne, Ibbotson) are the old school "guys you want to be in the trenches with". Once they lose a yard of pace their skills get exposed.

Unfortunately we have a lot of guys nearing the end at once, and through some debatable drafting and high ladder position the guys who should be 3rd/4th/5th year players ready to step in aren't there.

 

[freo_leo29]

Balic in the backline? Is he quick off the mark and can he defend? By all reports in the Peel thread he's not the quickest bloke and looks lax-ical.

I said (Mid tho) after Balic's name

 

[Proud SJW]

You are not wrong , but to mention it to the media your players want the focus on other stuff rather than skill just give a loophole for the media to attack ross himself when thing don't go right for your team .

You're not wrong, but it would be like walking in a minefield when things aren't good.
It can be fairly hard to predict how the media will spin any statement, and these guys are AFL coaches who are forced to comment at the end of every game as if they were politicians, but they aren't. Well, most of them aren't. Some have a passing ability with the political style of rhetoric, but it does seem to go hand in hand with how well the team is doing at the time.

This is why most coaches (and players) just give out standard responses during post game pressers.

 

[Nolo180]

One thing i have noticed which i think makes our ball movement look even worse than it is, is our inability to spread and get into space. We have noone bar fyfe who can actually take contested marks on a regular basis, so kicking to one on ones or to a pack never works and almost always results in a turnover.

Im hoping with this injection of youth ross is going to give the young guys the freedom to run and carry and create, taking the game on and playing some exciting instintive footy that won the bulldogs a premiership from 7th spot! I think lyon really needs to evolve because his defensive, low scoring gameplan just wont get it done anymore no matter who the personel.

Its going to be a long road back to performing to the high standards we have in the past but hopefully ross can come up with something to develop the young players and play semi-competitive football for the rest of the season.

I agree wat do we have to lose by taking a few risks. We arnt getting anywhere playing the percentages so we may as well take the game on. Maybe confidence will grow if they get the freedom to be creative & move the ball quickly instead of their stoppage game which has clearly been exposed.

 

[muckypup]

I'm curious as to how no one mentions Sandi int heir assessment of 'who is on the way out' but it seems to me one Fremantles biggest problems is its ruck structure. It's pretty glaring that we need a ruckman who can move forward, covers ground quickly. Basically something more versatile than he offers.

 

[wayToGo_]

I'm curious as to how no one mentions Sandi int heir assessment of 'who is on the way out' but it seems to me one Fremantles biggest problems is its ruck structure. It's pretty glaring that we need a ruckman who can move forward, covers ground quickly. Basically something more versatile than he offers.

I think the 90+ points we gave up through turn overs might be a more pressing matter but each to their own

 

[dockshark]

I'm curious as to how no one mentions Sandi int heir assessment of 'who is on the way out' but it seems to me one Fremantles biggest problems is its ruck structure. It's pretty glaring that we need a ruckman who can move forward, covers ground quickly. Basically something more versatile than he offers.

I agree, although going by this years games he's less of a liability than Griffin. Darcy should play the rest of the season IMO, and pull Sandi out for the games against weaker teams. These kids seem to thrive off being given responsibility and being backed in.