said Thankyou Mark Duffield

[smokingjacket]

Fat kids who can't follow a diet do not have long AFL careers. Under Harvey, Walters was inconsistent potential. Under Lyon he is one of the best forwards in the comp.

I think he could be used better in a different system to be honest. Unquestionably he responded well to being challenged by Lyon which in retrospect becomes a sign of good player management but by the same token you need to accept that we lost Simpson under similar circumstances. Not every side is set up to play the way we are. Some sides don't require their forwards to track back as much as we do thereby needing the sort of fitness base Lyon was asking of Walters. Definitely a success story though.

 

[stax on the mull]

Harvey won a final in 2010 with a super young team and then could hardly field a team through injury in the back half of 2011 and was dumped

There's sympathy for Harvey's plight with injuries to the team in 2011, but I'll give you the games played in the home and away season (not finals) for those 12 players you listed as a core group of All Australian talent from 2011-2013. It wasn't just injuries prior to Lyon and it wasn't all plain sailing without injuries after.

Johnson 2011 22 2012 22 2013 20
McPharlin 2011 20 2012 21 2013 13
Fyfe 2011 21 2012 9 2013 19
Pavlich 2011 20 2012 21 2013 9
Hill 2011 22 2012 20 2013 16
Ibboston 2011 18 2012 21 2013 13
Mayne 2011 22 2012 21 2013 21
Mundy 2011 12 2012 20 2013 19
Sandilands 2011 13 2012 12 2013 7
Neale 2011 not yet drafted 2012 11 2013 9
Walters 2011 3 2012 8 2013 18
Ballantyne 2011 17 2012 19 2013 18

 

[johnnomac]

Pretty much every first round pick we have had since S Hiĺl has been a dud.

2009 - Morabito (4), Fyfe (20)
2010 - Pitt (20)
2011 - Sheridan (16), Crozier (20)
2012 - Simpson (17)
2013 - Apeness (17)
2014 - Weller (13)
2015 - No first round picks
2016 - Logue (8)

Unfair to include Morabito and Pitt. Of the others, Simpson was a fail and Sheridan and Crozier are a tad disappointing. Apeness has had injury issues. Weller has shown some good signs, and too early for Logue. Fyfe is the only one who is elite.

I think the only "dud" in that list is Simpson.

It's probably more accurate to say that we haven't consistently uncovered elite players. Sheridan and Crozier for me are the biggest disappointments.

 

[dominguez]

Thomas (saints) and Harvey (dockers) paved the way for lyon to put the finishing touches on sides who already blooded youngsters. and these youngsters had already chalked up 30-40 games.

Who are the gun youngsters that were at the club when Ross arrived? Hill was very inconsistent, Fyfe was a HFF, Walters was heading towards de-listing and Morabito, Drum and Pitt were picks that didn't work out. The likes of Mundy, Johnson, Crowley and Ballantyne were established players who went from handy to elite under Ross.

The jury is out if Lyon can rebuild a competitive list.

The coach doesn't built the list, the recruiting department do. But who has shown promise then dropped off under Ross? Our club is laden with guys like Koops, Murphy, Polak and Medhurst - players who looked like they'd be superstars at 19-20 years old then never fulfilled that potential but that has stopped under Lyon.

 

[salim malik]

Who are the gun youngsters that were at the club when Ross arrived? Hill was very inconsistent, Fyfe was a HFF, Walters was heading towards de-listing and Morabito, Drum and Pitt were picks that didn't work out. The likes of Mundy, Johnson, Crowley and Ballantyne were established players who went from handy to elite under Ross.






The coach doesn't built the list, the recruiting department do. But who has shown promise then dropped off under Ross? Our club is laden with guys like Koops, Murphy, Polak and Medhurst - players who looked like they'd be superstars at 19-20 years old then never fulfilled that potential but that has stopped under Lyon.

2009 - Morabito (4), Fyfe (20)
2010 - Pitt (20)
2011 - Sheridan (16), Crozier (20)
2012 - Simpson (17)
2013 - Apeness (17)
2014 - Weller (13)
2015 - No first round picks
2016 - Logue (8)

Unfair to include Morabito and Pitt. Of the others, Simpson was a fail and Sheridan and Crozier are a tad disappointing. Apeness has had injury issues. Weller has shown some good signs, and too early for Logue. Fyfe is the only one who is elite.

I think the only "dud" in that list is Simpson.

It's probably more accurate to say that we haven't consistently uncovered elite players. Sheridan and Crozier for me are the biggest disappointments.

5 0f 7 0n that list are still at the club and still have plenty of time to show their worth. Simpson was always a spec pick and Pitt had the medical problem. I dont know the percentage of other clubs first round picks success rate but 5 out of 7 of essentially low round first picks would be right up there success wise.

 

[igon value]

Who are the gun youngsters that were at the club when Ross arrived? Hill was very inconsistent, Fyfe was a HFF, Walters was heading towards de-listing and Morabito, Drum and Pitt were picks that didn't work out. The likes of Mundy, Johnson, Crowley and Ballantyne were established players who went from handy to elite under Ross.

Hill was a third year player and top three draft pick, Fyfe ran second in the B&F in his second year. Ballantyne was no more established than Hill. Mundy won a B&F in 2010.

Drum wasn't even on the list when Lyon arrived. Your history is entirely inaccurate.

 

[ydraw]

Too much is being made of this "effort before skills" thing anyway.

When someone says "we value effort over skills" it doesn't mean we don't value skills. It means we value one thing more than the other.
It's just the media (and supporters) taking a negative inflection on a statement and running with it. Being journalists, you'd think they'd have a slightly better grasp of English.

If you think about it, you could go the other way too.
What if someone said "we value skills more than effort" and everyone took it to mean effort isn't valued?
Then you'd have a team full of Colin bloody Sylvias.
Yeah. Been there. No thanks.

That our skills are bloody poor at the moment doesn't mean we've stopped trying to refine them, it's a stupid bloody beat up.
I do not believe Fremantle is a poorly skilled team (not including Dawson). The execution is being affected by confidence and poor structure.

It's not like Brad Hill kicked poorly a couple of times yesterday because he suddenly forgot how to kick, and it's not like he forgot how to kick because someone forgot to remind him at training because we were too busy telling him to put more effort in.

The whole conversation is getting ludicrous.

Or maybe journalists are justifiably lampooning a typically hubristic and stupid statement from a guy whos repeatedly demonstrated that he thinks he knows more about footy than everyone else in the history of the sport combined.

 

[salim malik]

Or maybe journalists are justifiably lampooning a typically hubristic and stupid statement from a guy whos repeatedly demonstrated that he thinks he knows more about footy than everyone else in the history of the sport combined.

Sounds like the BF board.

 

[Proud SJW]

Or maybe journalists are justifiably lampooning a typically hubristic and stupid statement from a guy whos repeatedly demonstrated that he thinks he knows more about footy than everyone else in the history of the sport combined.

I take it you'd prefer the team of Colin Sylvias then.

 

[Mr Fonebone]

This one of the better write ups of our current woes

https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/how-freo-crashed-from-the-top-to-the-bottom-ng-b88438733z