Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young charged



Allegedly
 
Last edited:
thumbs_up said:
Women engage in victim blaming too unfortunately. The literature on victim blaming as a construct is basically as follows: we like to think we live in a safe world, so if we can find a reason to explain how the victim brought the event on by themselves then we can maintain the illusion that the world is safe.

It's pretty messed up (and lazy) but effectively it's easier for people to blame the victim than acknowledge the world can be randomly cruel
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True, but things are rarely able to be simplified or generalised.
 
thumbs_up said:
Women engage in victim blaming too unfortunately. The literature on victim blaming as a construct is basically as follows: we like to think we live in a safe world, so if we can find a reason to explain how the victim brought the event on by themselves then we can maintain the illusion that the world is safe.

It's pretty messed up (and lazy) but effectively it's easier for people to blame the victim than acknowledge the world can be randomly cruel
Click to expand...

That mentality doesn’t work for me, and I think there’s some big lessons in store for those who think that Life should be all about what’s ‘easy’ for them.

It’s not intended to be some idyllic journey where we just sit back and enjoy the ride to our final destination, but this isn’t the place for me to get on that soapbox .. lol
 
shorsky said:
That mentality doesn’t work for me, and I think there’s some big lessons in store for those who think that Life should be all about what’s ‘easy’ for them.

It’s not intended to be some idyllic journey where we just sit back and enjoy the ride to our final destination, but this isn’t the place for me to get on that soapbox .. lol
Click to expand...
That mentality doesn't work for me either. I was just speaking to research that has been done on victim blaming... If you're curious, here's an extract from a journal article on the matter... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810020305419

research suggests that a strong belief in a just world is also linked to victim blaming (e.g., Strömwall et al., 2013, Van den Bos and Maas, 2009). Such a view postulates that people “believe that they live in a world where people generally get what they deserve” (Lerner & Miller, 1978, p. 1030). A person who is victimized through no fault of their own is therefore contrary to the belief of a just world and should cause cognitive dissonance (Festinger, 1957). One way to resolve this dissonance, is to attribute the responsibility to the innocent victim. Indeed, research has shown that if a person befalls bad luck through no fault of their own, observers tend to put blame on the victim to maintain their belief in a just world (Furnham, 2003).
 

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shorsky said:
That mentality doesn’t work for me, and I think there’s some big lessons in store for those who think that Life should be all about what’s ‘easy’ for them.

It’s not intended to be some idyllic journey where we just sit back and enjoy the ride to our final destination, but this isn’t the place for me to get on that soapbox .. lol
Click to expand...

I was enjoying you on your soapbox actually
 
thumbs_up said:
That mentality doesn't work for me either. I was just speaking to research that has been done on victim blaming... If you're curious, here's an extract from a journal article on the matter... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810020305419

research suggests that a strong belief in a just world is also linked to victim blaming (e.g., Strömwall et al., 2013, Van den Bos and Maas, 2009). Such a view postulates that people “believe that they live in a world where people generally get what they deserve” (Lerner & Miller, 1978, p. 1030). A person who is victimized through no fault of their own is therefore contrary to the belief of a just world and should cause cognitive dissonance (Festinger, 1957). One way to resolve this dissonance, is to attribute the responsibility to the innocent victim. Indeed, research has shown that if a person befalls bad luck through no fault of their own, observers tend to put blame on the victim to maintain their belief in a just world (Furnham, 2003).
Click to expand...

Ain’t that the truth. You see it all the time on social media.

Whether someone’s been assaulted, robbed or scammed there’s direct or indirect criticism of the victim.

As though no one has ever made an error of judgment or a mistake in their life.

All it does it take the onus off the offender.
 
thumbs_up said:
That mentality doesn't work for me either. I was just speaking to research that has been done on victim blaming... If you're curious, here's an extract from a journal article on the matter... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810020305419

research suggests that a strong belief in a just world is also linked to victim blaming (e.g., Strömwall et al., 2013, Van den Bos and Maas, 2009). Such a view postulates that people “believe that they live in a world where people generally get what they deserve” (Lerner & Miller, 1978, p. 1030). A person who is victimized through no fault of their own is therefore contrary to the belief of a just world and should cause cognitive dissonance (Festinger, 1957). One way to resolve this dissonance, is to attribute the responsibility to the innocent victim. Indeed, research has shown that if a person befalls bad luck through no fault of their own, observers tend to put blame on the victim to maintain their belief in a just world (Furnham, 2003).
Click to expand...
I’m not discounting the propensity for some to veer toward the ease of ‘victim blaming’ - we see it often as I referred to previously.

However, while it feeds the need for output from researchers etc., it doesn’t make that behaviour ‘right’ imo; nor does it give people unequivocal judgement powers over their ‘neighbours’ in terms of ‘what’ constitutes ‘deserving’.

A ‘just’ world imo is a world that holds equally, honestly, fairness & respect as solid values, and holds accountability those who perpetrate against those values.
 
So on that note - I do hope the full truth of what transpired with SM becomes clear, and that justice is served in her honour. Something just doesn’t ring true for me in all of this, and I wonder if may turn out to quite complex.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that POS is responsible for her death. The Police were most definite in the press conference after his arrest, that he murdered her in a deliberate attack, which I suggest means they have some solid proof.

* Why he did it is massively puzzling for me.
Why would he attack & murder a woman 9 years older than his father, who’s out for her morning run ??
Why was he even in that location ?
When Police say it was a ‘deliberate attack’ do they mean he was waiting for her ? Did he know her route and go to Mt Clear to kill her ?

He’s a very young man, gainfully employed, had (by all accounts) a solid long-term relationship & a close family unit. He was at the time living with girlfriend in the ‘house sit’ abode, but neighbours spoke of his presence also at his family home.
Sure, he ‘parties’ - and has a DUI charge running, but he keeps his job so must be considered reliable & trustworthy one would think.
Does anyone know if he was still an Apprentice or had he Qualified ?

* Whether he was the one who disposed of her body ( or the Phone) is a different consideration.
The terminology seems to be that he is not cooperating with police - which to me indicates that he’s not ‘divulging the information they want - as opposed to the suggestions from some that he’s remaining Silent.
Since he hasn’t entered a Plea it’d be ludicrous to expect him to give any details !
But maybe he genuinely doesn’t know where she is
Maybe someone else disposed of the body (and the phone)

* Are Police still trying to get enough evidence to charge others I wonder, just slowly peeling back the layers of the onion, and waiting for the tears to fall perhaps.

* Are they still actively searching for Samantha ? Do any Ballarat locals know ? Mind you, I think perhaps everyone local has a vow of silence, as perhaps many have been questioned / given statements .
 
I'm going to go on my soapbox now :think:

There's a concept that was advanced many years ago about the banality of evil, that very few people are truly evil, but they drifted into "evilness" gradually, rather than being inherently "evil" in themselves.

They made decisions that they could justify at the time purely on the circumstances that presented to them at the time.

A druggy blowing away a rival drug dealer is purely a commercial decision, an argument about a questionable umpiring decision in a pub after the match (which has happened a couple of times), a one punch death because the guy was smaller, taller or more handsome, a possession like a nice car/phone/girlfriend that someone of jealous of, a bloke who's wife did something whch upset his belief of what should be his or her role in the relationship, the woman who has got tired of being bashed.

Pretty much all murders have a reason that the perpetrator could justify to him/her self at the time.

Very few people have the mind set to kill purely for the sake of taking some one's life

Sometimes if you read a transcript or ROI you get a feeling of "there but for the grace of God go I".

That can sometimes requires quite a mind shift and mental gymnastics to get to a place to understand where the murderer is coming from.

Doesn't excuse the person's actions though.

For some, however, you cannot determine the why or how they reached the decision to take someone else's life,

My rather glib response, is that for most murderers, the one major reason for taking another's life is an assault on the perpetrator's ego or what (s)he holds to be important to his/her self worth.

This thread is full of victim blaming, bikie gangs, dodgy panel beating shops, unknown pregnancies, quoting statistics of DV so that the poster's can make sense of an unknown death from their narrow life and experience viewpoint exacerbated by watching too many movies and TV police procedurals.

Only the perpetrator can answer the why, but in the interim, and in the absence of prosecution evidence, i'm going with the premise that he made the decision to take another person's life because it either reinforced his view of his own self worth or his ego was assaulted/insulted.
 
GrayRanga said:
I'm going to go on my soapbox now :think:

There's a concept that was advanced many years ago about the banality of evil, that very few people are truly evil, but they drifted into "evilness" gradually, rather than being inherently "evil" in themselves.

They made decisions that they could justify at the time purely on the circumstances that presented to them at the time.

A druggy blowing away a rival drug dealer is purely a commercial decision, an argument about a questionable umpiring decision in a pub after the match (which has happened a couple of times), a one punch death because the guy was smaller, taller or more handsome, a possession like a nice car/phone/girlfriend that someone of jealous of, a bloke who's wife did something whch upset his belief of what should be his or her role in the relationship, the woman who has got tired of being bashed.

Pretty much all murders have a reason that the perpetrator could justify to him/her self at the time.

Very few people have the mind set to kill purely for the sake of taking some one's life

Sometimes if you read a transcript or ROI you get a feeling of "there but for the grace of God go I".

That can sometimes requires quite a mind shift and mental gymnastics to get to a place to understand where the murderer is coming from.

Doesn't excuse the person's actions though.

For some, however, you cannot determine the why or how they reached the decision to take someone else's life,

My rather glib response, is that for most murderers, the one major reason for taking another's life is an assault on the perpetrator's ego or what (s)he holds to be important to his/her self worth.

This thread is full of victim blaming, bikie gangs, dodgy panel beating shops, unknown pregnancies, quoting statistics of DV so that the poster's can make sense of an unknown death from their narrow life and experience viewpoint exacerbated by watching too many movies and TV police procedurals.

Only the perpetrator can answer the why, but in the interim, and in the absence of prosecution evidence, i'm going with the premise that he made the decision to take another person's life because it either reinforced his view of his own self worth or his ego was assaulted/insulted.
Click to expand...
Happy to share my soapbox 😊

And yes, for want of a better way of saying it, I agree there are degrees of ‘evilness’.

However, imo some are pure Evil, they don’t deserve the title ‘human being’. .. they get there kicks from the pain, suffering, degradation & humiliation that they subject upon other beings.

Then there’s those who ‘fall into’ (as you say) evilness… note it’s not the druggie blowing away the rival drug dealer, it’s the druggie’s Drug Dealer - that’s a business decision & imo that person is evil on so many levels, but maybe a few steps below the aforementioned.

Similarly the bloke who thinks it’s his right to destroy his wife / partner / whoever, because they upset him - ‘evil’ in all its degrees, is a ticking time bomb.

All you mentioned are valid examples of dreadful situations that should never have happened, and I won’t go into them all, however I don’t attach the word ‘evil’ in describing All of the perpetrators that have to live with the consequences of their actions. There are unfortunate ‘accidents’ e.g. no one planned to have their combatant in the fight outside the pub, hit his head on the curb & die. It was just intended to be an old fashioned ‘sort it out’ !

Absolutely the perpetrator is only one who knows the driving force behind their actions. ..unfortunately most are too busy propagating their evilness to begin to tell the truth. … but eventually evidence bares all & then some of us try to figure the psychology behind it !

I’m geared toward ‘facts’ so as much as I’m interested in all the surrounding information, if I don’t get it substantiated I don’t tend to give it much credence. .. noting that I’m 100% positive that Police know a whole lot of stuff about this particular situation that I currently don’t have ‘substantiated’ :)

I’m waiting ..
 
shorsky said:
So on that note - I do hope the full truth of what transpired with SM becomes clear, and that justice is served in her honour. Something just doesn’t ring true for me in all of this, and I wonder if may turn out to quite complex.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that POS is responsible for her death. The Police were most definite in the press conference after his arrest, that he murdered her in a deliberate attack, which I suggest means they have some solid proof.

* Why he did it is massively puzzling for me.
Why would he attack & murder a woman 9 years older than his father, who’s out for her morning run ??
Why was he even in that location ?
When Police say it was a ‘deliberate attack’ do they mean he was waiting for her ? Did he know her route and go to Mt Clear to kill her ?

He’s a very young man, gainfully employed, had (by all accounts) a solid long-term relationship & a close family unit. He was at the time living with girlfriend in the ‘house sit’ abode, but neighbours spoke of his presence also at his family home.
Sure, he ‘parties’ - and has a DUI charge running, but he keeps his job so must be considered reliable & trustworthy one would think.
Does anyone know if he was still an Apprentice or had he Qualified ?

* Whether he was the one who disposed of her body ( or the Phone) is a different consideration.
The terminology seems to be that he is not cooperating with police - which to me indicates that he’s not ‘divulging the information they want - as opposed to the suggestions from some that he’s remaining Silent.
Since he hasn’t entered a Plea it’d be ludicrous to expect him to give any details !
But maybe he genuinely doesn’t know where she is
Maybe someone else disposed of the body (and the phone)

* Are Police still trying to get enough evidence to charge others I wonder, just slowly peeling back the layers of the onion, and waiting for the tears to fall perhaps.

* Are they still actively searching for Samantha ? Do any Ballarat locals know ? Mind you, I think perhaps everyone local has a vow of silence, as perhaps many have been questioned / given statements .
Click to expand...
He's a toxic male with a drug and alcohol problem. It was a rape thrill killing imo and for some reason he thought he would get away with it. No one else is involved and there's no conspiracy.
 
shorsky said:
So on that note - I do hope the full truth of what transpired with SM becomes clear, and that justice is served in her honour. Something just doesn’t ring true for me in all of this, and I wonder if may turn out to quite complex.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that POS is responsible for her death. The Police were most definite in the press conference after his arrest, that he murdered her in a deliberate attack, which I suggest means they have some solid proof.

* Why he did it is massively puzzling for me.
Why would he attack & murder a woman 9 years older than his father, who’s out for her morning run ??
Why was he even in that location ?
When Police say it was a ‘deliberate attack’ do they mean he was waiting for her ? Did he know her route and go to Mt Clear to kill her ?

He’s a very young man, gainfully employed, had (by all accounts) a solid long-term relationship & a close family unit. He was at the time living with girlfriend in the ‘house sit’ abode, but neighbours spoke of his presence also at his family home.
Sure, he ‘parties’ - and has a DUI charge running, but he keeps his job so must be considered reliable & trustworthy one would think.
Does anyone know if he was still an Apprentice or had he Qualified ?

* Whether he was the one who disposed of her body ( or the Phone) is a different consideration.
The terminology seems to be that he is not cooperating with police - which to me indicates that he’s not ‘divulging the information they want - as opposed to the suggestions from some that he’s remaining Silent.
Since he hasn’t entered a Plea it’d be ludicrous to expect him to give any details !
But maybe he genuinely doesn’t know where she is
Maybe someone else disposed of the body (and the phone)

* Are Police still trying to get enough evidence to charge others I wonder, just slowly peeling back the layers of the onion, and waiting for the tears to fall perhaps.

* Are they still actively searching for Samantha ? Do any Ballarat locals know ? Mind you, I think perhaps everyone local has a vow of silence, as perhaps many have been questioned / given statements .
Click to expand...
How can you be sure there is no doubt?
We don't even know what the evidence us.
All police are alleging is a deliberate act and he was under surveillance for 2 weeks. That's it. Only physical evidence we now of is the phone.
Reason this thread is so full of conjecture is there is no actual evidence to discuss.
Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion.
You must have a lot of faith in the police never being wrong.
 

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Aristotle Pickett said:
There's still people posting on this thread that fingered the husband because of 'stats'.
You should lose your posting rights if you talk crap with zero evidence.
Click to expand...

Aristotle Pickett said:
He's a toxic male with a drug and alcohol problem. It was a rape thrill killing imo and for some reason he thought he would get away with it. No one else is involved and there's no conspiracy.
Click to expand...
Do you get the irony between your posts?
 
GrayRanga said:
Only the perpetrator can answer the why, but in the interim, and in the absence of prosecution evidence, i'm going with the premise that he made the decision to take another person's life because it either reinforced his view of his own self worth or his ego was assaulted/insulted.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with this. I would even posit that there wasn’t even “a decision” as such. A combination of circumstances and a “sh!t happens” moment and in a split second the universe has shifted off course. What happens from then on is anyone’s guess.
 
Dogs_R_Us said:
I tend to agree with this. I would even posit that there wasn’t even “a decision” as such. A combination of circumstances and a “sh!t happens” moment and in a split second the universe has shifted off course. What happens from then on is anyone’s guess.
Click to expand...
The actual physical act of killing (or rape, physical assault or even theft) someone requires a decision and undertake an action.

To stab someone (possibly multiple times), to use a blunt instrument to bludgeon them to death, to keep the pressure on a person's neck to ensure the brain is starved of oxygen all requires a conscious protracted decision.

Even lining a bonnet up to hit someone requires a decision and action that is continued.

At any time the perpetrator could have stopped the act that resulted in death.

I come from the position that taking another person's life is an evil act; there is no justification for it.

We ascribe our own value system to the perpetrator's actions to determine whether we consider them evil. or not
 

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Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

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