SANFL plotting another Port Adelaide Football Club coup

[Papa G]

bit off topic but how is Hawthor a middle tier vic club? we have 56,450 payed up members.

Those figures are rubbery and I think most Hawthorn people would concede that. The Tasmanian deal has sent Hawthorn up the ladder markedly in terms of financials as well as members but if you look at crowd numbers those numbers just don't translate. Evidence was on Saturday. I know I'll probably get stuff like "Port are shit and no one wants to watch them" but there were only 27k at the MCG, this from a club with 56,000 members, firing on all cylinders, a geniune threat for the flag played in perfect conditions on a Saturday afternoon at a ground which their fans love. Your probably 5th in line in Melbourne these days in terms of support but I still think your closer to Geelong or the Saints than you are to Carlton/Richmond.

But yes, it is a bit off topic.

 

[Minotaur]

True but you have to embrace the next generation. If I was a dyed in the wool Port fan Id love the Creed but it alienates everyone else. Cant expect the next generation to just roll up

I don't think the Creed and the est. 1870 etc etc does turn people off. It turns off people in your demographic (i'm guessing an over 35 year old bloke who loves footy and supported Norwood, Glenelg or sturt and jumped on when the Crows entered the AFL because you like top line footy and the crows were the SA team - so why wouldn't you support them?) You are not going to stop supporting the Crows for another team. You are not the demographic we should be targeting. To be honest I think doing stuff that turns off your demographic is a good way of attracting a younger audience.

I think the history and all the "it's a real club stuff" gives the second AFL team established in Adelaide a unique selling point compared to the Crows which are clearly the dominant market force.

It is hard to tell definitely because the embrace of the past has co-incided with the worst period in the club's on field performance. I don't think any team in the history of anything has ever increased is supported base whilst it is totally rubbish on the field.

i also think the Crows do a heaps better job in doing in school promotions and have had over the last decade more marketable players than us.

 

[rose jam]

the realisation has set in now that it's a failed model to bring in an existing club because it alienates so many potential supporters

Look at Freo, they still have a very strong supporter base, did not call themselves East Fremantle or whatever but still manage a tenious link to that club that gives them a memebership kick start but doesn't alienate potential new supporters (may not know what I'm talking about there)

Port Adelaide is a tiny demographic and it is paying for it. It is a failure and needs to be rebuilt. How? No idea, probably disbanding and creating a team in Tassie is the best thing the league could do.

 

[Minotaur]

I'd drop the Power bit - I reckon it seriously blows.


Port Pirates for mine.

I totally agree with this. I think port Pirate and encourage a real bad boy image in black tops and encourage kids to come to games with skull and cross bones flags. The old timers would love it because C'arn the pirates could almost be mistaken for c'arn the pies. The kids would love it becuase of the rebel thing. All that can exist on the Port Adelaide heritage.

Power is hopeless.

 

[Docker Clint]

Rucci is trolling his own club's supporters and they're biting well.

 

[ozpie]

bit off topic but how is Hawthor a middle tier vic club? we have 56,450 payed up members.

because pet memberships dont count....when u can get at least 3quarters of those members to show up at every game you too can be considered one of the big boys...till then, back to mid-tier my friend

 

[Portmanteau]

I think the history and all the "it's a real club stuff" gives the second AFL team established in Adelaide a unique selling point compared to the Crows which are clearly the dominant market force.

It is hard to tell definitely because the embrace of the past has co-incided with the worst period in the club's on field performance. I don't think any team in the history of anything has ever increased is supported base whilst it is totally rubbish on the field.

This.

Live the Creed + current performances = laughable
Live the Creed + a few seasons of finals on end = get in

 

[Geoffa32]

That's the truth.

No one has given a shit about the SANFL since the crows entered the AFL 20 years ago. it is only old men who run the argument that the Port heritage in the SANFL turns off potential new supporters because you need to be about as old as me (35) to remember a time when the SANFL was a big thing. Where is this army of 35++ people who would suddenly start supporting the POwer if it dropped its Port heritage. Will KG and Kornsey senior start supporting us.

You also need a player that will draw these people to games.

Looking at Port's list there are not too many players that kids and teens would actually want to come and see. Very little excitement in watching Boak and even Gray. I guess Hartlett could be that player, but not yet. People used to go to games to watch guys like Tredders, Shaunie, and Chad.

Getting Sam Day may fix this.

 

[Waspy79]

the realisation has set in now that it's a failed model to bring in an existing club because it alienates so many potential supporters

Look at Freo, they still have a very strong supporter base, did not call themselves East Fremantle or whatever but still manage a tenious link to that club that gives them a memebership kick start but doesn't alienate potential new supporters (may not know what I'm talking about there)

Port Adelaide is a tiny demographic and it is paying for it. It is a failure and needs to be rebuilt. How? No idea, probably disbanding and creating a team in Tassie is the best thing the league could do.

Quite simply, you are wrong, and have no idea about the demographics of South Australian football.

 

[stewie griffen]

Your're joking right? Your "Power" club was founded on Ego and Deceit and those are traits that are still very present in your club today. For the "Power" to claim the history of the Magpies is a disgrace.

The SANFL should have issued the second licence to a neutral. Your Schizophrenic (split personality) club will soon enough bring about the end of the SANFL comp if it's allowed to continue dragging it down.

Bigfooty... always bringing the lulz....

Do you even remember the bidding process for the second license in SA? What neutral would you have issued the license to? Norwood/Sturt? Yeah, that would have worked out well....

I like how you even explained schizophrenic... nice work

 

[Geoffa32]

Quite simply, you are wrong, and have no idea about the demographics of South Australian football.

The Port branded SANFL composite side was always the best option. Its a natural rival to the Rest of SA branded Adelaide Crows. Remember it used to be "Us and Them".

But since 2004, and the feeling of "jobs done" with all the key staff members who left, (Chiefly Bucky Cunningham) the replacements have mismanaged the club to the position you are in now.

Now "Us" is relient on "Them".

 

[Waspy79]

The Port branded SANFL composite side was always the best option. Its a natural rival to the Rest of SA branded Adelaide Crows. Remember it used to be "Us and Them".

But since 2004, and the feeling of "jobs done" with all the key staff members who left, (Chiefly Bucky Cunningham) the replacements have mismanaged the club to the position you are in now.

Now "Us" is relient on "Them".

How does Port and composite work Geoffa?

The best option was to divide the city South/East (Norwood, Sturt, South, Glenelg) and North/West (Central, West, Port, Eagles, North) and have the clubs enter at the same time, but the SANFL wasn't up for it, so Port did the hard work and got the ball rolling and was eventually rewarded with a licence of its own.

 

[kaysee]

...
Port Adelaide is a tiny demographic and it is paying for it. It is a failure and needs to be rebuilt. How? No idea, probably disbanding and creating a team in Tassie is the best thing the league could do.

Like others have said... you have no idea about SA football. As for a tiny demographic... Collingwood is a small suburban football club with 70k members, on the back of their 1st premiership in 30 years, in a city of 4 million people. Their crowds are big because they play another Vic team every 2nd week, but 70k don't rock up against interstate teams. Port us a small suburban football club with 32k members in a city of 1.1 million people... even in our worse season ever we're not doing that bad. The well covered financial issues is due to the SANFL raping both Adelaide clubs.

 

[Geoffa32]

How does Port and composite work Geoffa?

The best option was to divide the city South/East (Norwood, Sturt, South, Glenelg) and North/West (Central, West, Port, Eagles, North) and have the clubs enter at the same time, but the SANFL wasn't up for it, so Port did the hard work and got the ball rolling and was eventually rewarded with a licence of its own.

The players in the initial squad for the Power mostly composed of SANFL players. The PAFC team of 1996 did not just enter the comp. You guys had SANFL zone selections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_AFL_Draft

Anyway...


Don't forget Norwood were also working to get into the AFL. But that is glossed over. Port got caught out first and copped the flack.

Port and Norwood going into the AFL would have been the best option. Splits the city in half East/West and a bit of a cultural divide in Toffs V Working class.

That would have been the best option. Both clubs go in at same time, a far more even spread of supporters with supporters of the other SANFL clubs picking one of these clubs to make their own.


Where is the Doc with the DeLorean.........

 

[Tulip]

Wear your best 1970's maggies gear to the bulldogs game this week as a symbol of your protest against the SANFL's control of our board.

Since 1997 the SANFL have used its death by 1000 (budget) cuts strategy to destroy our club. Its now time to take it back.

**** wearing the gear, just rock up to the games and speak with your feet!

This is a serious situation, noone wants to see one of the proudest organisations in Australian Footy to dissapear

 

[Waspy79]

The players in the initial squad for the Power mostly composed of SANFL players. The PAFC team of 1996 did not just enter the comp. You guys had SANFL zone selections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_AFL_Draft

Anyway...


Don't forget Norwood were also working to get into the AFL. But that is glossed over. Port got caught out first and copped the flack.

Port and Norwood going into the AFL would have been the best option. Splits the city in half East/West and a bit of a cultural divide in Toffs V Working class.

That would have been the best option. Both clubs go in at same time, a far more even spread of supporters with supporters of the other SANFL clubs picking one of these clubs to make their own.


Where is the Doc with the DeLorean.........

Not sure what your point is regarding our initial squad is, The PAFC won the licence and had concessions in regards to establishing its initial squad, but I do agree that a Port and Norwood option would have worked (probably with a clear alignment to SA clubs within the natural geographic divide as I outlined earlier), provided entry occured in the same year so as neither club got a head start advantage. Whether you deny it or not the Crows having a 6 year head start on Port has been a massive advantage for the Crows in pursuit of market share, especially on the back of flags in 1997 and 1998.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Whether you deny it or not the Crows having a 6 year head start on Port has been a massive advantage for the Crows in pursuit of market share, especially on the back of flags in 1997 and 1998.

Oh cry me a river!!!

The eagles had a 8 year start on Freo but has the AFL ever bailed us out???

 

[Geoffa32]

Not sure what your point is regarding our initial squad is, The PAFC won the licence and had concessions in regards to establishing its initial squad, but I do agree that a Port and Norwood option would have worked (probably with a clear alignment to SA clubs within the natural geographic divide as I outlined earlier), provided entry occured in the same year so as neither club got a head start advantage. Whether you deny it or not the Crows having a 6 year head start on Port has been a massive advantage for the Crows in pursuit of market share, especially on the back of flags in 1997 and 1998.

However your best years attendance wise was in the early years in the AFL. In fact I recall a KPMG study that suggested attendances would be about 35,000 for Port in the AFL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Adelaide_Football_Club

Which they were for the firrst year. But then dropped off to a level around 30,000 for a while (2000 being an exception), before the big plunge in 2006 onwards.


If we had a head start and that affected Port's attendances, you would expect your early years to be low and then building?

If anything, plenty of Port people stopped going to Crows games and took up Power memberships and attended Port games.

 

[Waspy79]

Oh cry me a river!!!

The eagles had a 8 year start on Freo but has the AFL ever bailed us out???

And out come the Freo flogs. The Fremantle posters on this board are the most childish, least informed and most pathetic of any club, much like on-field Freo sadly. Your club was in massive financial trouble not long ago, but I am guessing it was before your time.

Your club is a composite club just like the Crows sonny, try comparing apples with apples you muppet.

 

[Waspy79]

However your best years attendance wise was in the early years in the AFL. In fact I recall a KPMG study that suggested attendances would be about 35,000 for Port in the AFL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Adelaide_Football_Club

Which they were for the firrst year. But then dropped off to a level around 30,000 for a while (2000 being an exception), before the big plunge in 2006 onwards.


If we had a head start and that affected Port's attendances, you would expect your early years to be low and then building?

If anything, plenty of Port people stopped going to Crows games and took up Power memberships and attended Port games.

I am guessing this response was taken from a database of pre-prepared template responses for use in these sort of discussions. I should know not to bother with you Geoffa.

No doubt the Crows lost some fans to Port, at a time you had a long season ticket waiting list, so in terms of memberships, the Crows were unaffected, and Port may have even benefited from that scenario, until the stadium capacity was increased, the fans of both clubs got disinterested in an expanded VFL competition and the novelty factor for others wore off, on-field performances began to stink, foxtel and live against the gate was introduced, club champions retired and recruits failed to replace them or were stolen by expansion clubs, and both clubs find themselves in the situation they are in now, in a steady decline.

 

[Hellgood]

Whilst there is a lot to be unhappy about at Port Adelaide at the moment, I don't think things are as bad as people like to believe. We are absolutely abysmal on the field, playing at a stadium which the fans hate and the SANFL are taking our money. It hurts when you see the poor crowds at AAMI, but the reality is, is that if we get our shit together on the field I see no reason why those "bandwagoner" type supporters who were all their when we filled our stadium nearly week in week out back around 2002-2005 would not return when we get better and are playing right in the city. The poster that said that it was like "mission accomplished, lets go home" after we won in 2004 at the club is right on the money. Carr and Schofield left to go back to WA and many staff did as well. It's hard to see, but we'll get better sometime soon, all clubs do to an extent. Carlton, St Kilda, Melbourne and even Collingwood have all had abysmal periods over the last decades and they came out the other side of the tunnel (jury is still out on Melbourne, but they are a hell of a lot better than they were).

It won't just happen and we need our club figureheads to make the right decisions on the field and off it too. The club has not been the same since 2007 after that soul destroying loss, which could have been averted had Choco not decided it would be better "spectacle" for the game .

To the doomsdayers, calling the club a "failed concept", rubbing their hands with glee at our apparently imminent demise, just grow up and think about how you can seriously be hoping for a club to die. Who knows in a decade it might be you who is defending your clubs position in the league on a daily basis. The vultures were queing up a couple of years back for a shot at North's carcass, but they've fought back pretty damn well and I think we will too. To our supporters, just go to the game, protest the SANFL, doesn't matter what, but just make it look like you care, in the end large groups of people emotionally attached to a common cause can do great things.

 

[Geoffa32]

You do realise Waspy that there is little difference in the fundamentals in the set up between the Crows and the Power. And WCE/Freo for that matter.

What clubs do Power players go back to when not playing AFL.
What clubs do you draw Father Sons from. Scott Hodges sons dont qualify for the Power yet some bloke from some another SANFL club who played against him do...
Who approves your board?
Who do you pay a licence fee to?
Who holds a debt to the AFL on Port's behalf?

The only real difference between Port and Adelaide is branding. Surely the issues of the last few months should illustrate how far from an actual club you guys are.

 

[Waspy79]

You do realise Waspy that there is little difference in the fundamentals in the set up between the Crows and the Power. And WCE/Freo for that matter.

What clubs do Power players go back to when not playing AFL.
What clubs do you draw Father Sons from. Scott Hodges sons dont qualify for the Power yet some bloke from some another SANFL club who played against him do...
Who approves your board?
Who do you pay a licence fee to?
Who holds a debt to the AFL on Port's behalf?

The only real difference between Port and Adelaide is branding. Surely the issues of the last few months should illustrate how far from an actual club you guys are.

The fundamental difference is that Port Adelaide FC won the licence to establish a club in the AFL, and that, Geoffa, is a massive and fundamental difference to the origins of the other clubs, regardless of the rules in which each club operates which are of course not of Port's making.

 

[Geoffa32]

I am guessing this response was taken from a database of pre-prepared template responses for use in these sort of discussions. I should know not to bother with you Geoffa.

No doubt the Crows lost some fans to Port, at a time you had a long season ticket waiting list, so in terms of memberships, the Crows were unaffected, and Port may have even benefited from that scenario, until the stadium capacity was increased, the fans of both clubs got disinterested in an expanded VFL competition and the novelty factor for others wore off, on-field performances began to stink, foxtel and live against the gate was introduced, club champions retired and recruits failed to replace them or were stolen by expansion clubs, and both clubs find themselves in the situation they are in now, in a steady decline.

Apart from your first paragraph, I can't disagree with anything you have said.

Good to discuss such things with a genine Port supporter who does not hold the SANFL 100% to blame.

If you can get your house in order start winning games, become a flag contender the people will generally come. Maintain that for a few years and the core supporter group builds. Lulls in form may then see crowds of 21-25k, not the 17-21 of now.

It all comes down to winning and building a team people want to come to watch. For both clubs. Sure the SANFL and system we operate in is flawed, and needs to change. But that change alone will only sustain existance. You dont want to just exist.

 

[Geoffa32]

The fundamental difference is that Port Adelaide FC won the licence to establish a club in the AFL, and that, Geoffa, is a massive and fundamental difference to the origins of the other clubs, regardless of the rules in which each club operates which are of course not of Port's making.

Twenty years ago. Let it go. Does not help today.

I already said twenty years ago the way SA entered the AFL was flawed.

But the PAFC that entered the AFL was a mirror of the AFC. Only difference was the number of board members you members could vote for. Which, according to Rucci, has been eroded anyway.