Science/Environment Schizophrenia and Cannabis

[Demosthenes]

Just noticed this while reading the article about Raina Thaiday's sentencing:

http://ab.co/2qABibR

If you haven't heard about the case, she killed her 8 children during a schizophrenic episode and was found not guilty due to mental illness.

I don't have a problem with the sentence. What did interest me is that one of the leading psychiatrists assisting the court said that whilst she had no history of schizophrenia, it may have been triggered by her ceasing long-term cannabis use a few weeks earlier.

Can anyone more knowledgeable than myself expand upon links between the two? I was always under the impression weed was relatively harmless.

 

[skilts]

Just noticed this while reading the article about Raina Thaiday's sentencing:

http://ab.co/2qABibR

If you haven't heard about the case, she killed her 8 children during a schizophrenic episode and was found not guilty due to mental illness.

I don't have a problem with the sentence. What did interest me is that one of the leading psychiatrists assisting the court said that whilst she had no history of schizophrenia, it may have been triggered by her ceasing long-term cannabis use a few weeks earlier.

Can anyone more knowledgeable than myself expand upon links between the two? I was always under the impression weed was relatively harmless.

The lesson to be learned from this is that it is unwise to stop taking cannabis.

 

[Footypie32]

I have heard that if you have a family history of schizophrenia, using cannabis is not a good idea.

However yes, it's mostly harmless.

 

[Gough]

I was accused of being a bad influence on a seventy year old the other day, his wife complained that he always ends up stoned around me. She reckons it's f***ed his brain, as I pointed that she was slurring as she said this, I asked if it could be early onset Alzheimers, no she slurred it's the dope. People are stupid.

 

[kickazz]

Withdrawal from cannabis, combined with alcohol, can be mightily ugly.

 

[JackOutback]

Correlation does not equal causation. Does weed cause mental illness or do people with mental illness like the calming effect weed is known to have?

 

[kickazz]

Correlation does not equal causation. Does weed cause mental illness or do people with mental illness like the calming effect weed is known to have?

Even if it is the latter, there is always the argument that you are short-circuiting the reward paths in the brain, making enjoyment of life in general, without it, more difficult.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Can anyone more knowledgeable than myself expand upon links between the two? I was always under the impression weed was relatively harmless.

the short answer is we just don't know yet. there's some research on the topic; some studies have found a correlation, but others haven't. given the sheer amount of reefer that is used around the world on a daily basis, i don't think it could be classed as a cause of schizophrenia. however, there is enough evidence to at least ask whether it has an impact on those with underlying psychosis issues. eg:

In 2000, a review by researchers from the National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre in Australia examined two hypotheses:

1. That heavy use of cannabis causes "cannabis psychosis," which would never have happened had the patient never used cannabis, and
2. That cannabis use may precipitate, or exacerbate the symptoms of, schizophrenia.

The authors concluded that there was limited evidence to support the first hypothesis, but more support for the second, citing a large prospective study which found a linear relationship between cannabis use before the age of 18 and risk of being diagnosed with schizophrenia over the next 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_and_psychosis

 

[Carnage]

I have heard that if you have a family history of schizophrenia, using cannabis is not a good idea.

However yes, it's mostly harmless.

Two parents got it.
Smoked weed heavily 15-25.
I'm in my 30s and dodged the bullet!

 

[Snake_Baker]

......... one of the leading psychiatrists assisting the court said that whilst she had no history of schizophrenia, it may have been triggered by her ceasing long-term cannabis use a few weeks earlier...........

Nah mate, that's not what it states.

Even I wouldn't try to pull that one.

The article states: "He said it may have been triggered by Thaiday's long-term cannabis usage, which only stopped months before the killings."

The data on cannabis use causing issues in persons with an existing pre-disposition to induced schizophrenia has some weight in the scientific literature. My view is that this correlates to strains of cannabis with a more potent tetrahydrocannabinol to cannabadiol ratio, which is particularly prevalent in the skunk strains.

Of course, the legalisation and licenced cultivation of better balanced strains of cannabis would stamp out this problem.

 

[Demosthenes]

The article's changed since I posted it, if that's the case.

 

[Brick Loosener]

Do know it's the main cause of Bob Marley Syndrome.
Also cures cancer if you believe the memes.
If you kill 8 kids you'll spout any bullshit would be true.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Two parents got it.
Smoked weed heavily 15-25.
I'm in my 30s and dodged the bullet!

Do you still smoke it from time to time?

 

[Demosthenes]

If you kill 8 kids you'll spout any bullshit would be true.

It wasn't the defence who made the assessment though, it was the court-appointed psychiatrist (who's one of Australia's more eminent medicos).

 

[Carnage]

Do you still smoke it from time to time?

Occasionally.

 

[Present Not Past]

Even if it is the latter, there is always the argument that you are short-circuiting the reward paths in the brain, making enjoyment of life in general, without it, more difficult.

Are you saying that while she was a pot-head she enjoyed having her children. However, as soon as the pot stopped that enjoyment stopped?

 

[Shane Hird]

I recently gave up due to a middle aged crisis gym junkie crusade so I could clear my lungs out and go harder with excercise sessions.

As with all the other times in the last 30 years when I'd stopped for periods of months at a time, my brain cleared up within a week and I felt no apparent side effects what so ever.

I'm of the opinion that everyone has different ways on how their brain deals with THC intake.

Some brains can handle it quite easily with no problems while others are just not wired very well to deal with it...causing a myriad of psychological mishaps.


This story though about this woman is completely bogus I think though.

A good lawyer concocted this fairytale for his client and what a great job he or she did.

 

[Grin]

Nah mate, that's not what it states.

Even I wouldn't try to pull that one.

The article states: "He said it may have been triggered by Thaiday's long-term cannabis usage, which only stopped months before the killings."

The data on cannabis use causing issues in persons with an existing pre-disposition to induced schizophrenia has some weight in the scientific literature. My view is that this correlates to strains of cannabis with a more potent tetrahydrocannabinol to cannabadiol ratio, which is particularly prevalent in the skunk strains.

Of course, the legalisation and licenced cultivation of better balanced strains of cannabis would stamp out this problem.

Research that I've seen shows no significant increase in hospital admissions for psychosis during the period that skunk strains came in use.

 

[Snake_Baker]

This story though about this woman is completely bogus I think though.

A good lawyer concocted this fairytale for his client and what a great job he or she did.

She must be doing a pretty good job of conning the Queensland judicial system.

Research that I've seen shows no significant increase in hospital admissions for psychosis during the period that skunk strains came in use.

A link is usually appropriate at this point, if possible.

 

[blackcat]

how many kids? 8 kids?

fecund.

mebbe a Sino.

was she betting at crown casino and left them in the car? what was the temperature?

 

[Grin]

A link is usually appropriate at this point, if possible.

I'm assuming the irony is deliberate

 

[CD Xbow]

There has been debate for many years about dope & psychosis. Most studies show between about a 1.5 - 2x risk of developing psychosis in later life after cannabis use in adolescent years. It's thought not so much that dope 'causes' schizophrenia as unmasks it. In my family we have a relative who had a couple of psychotic episodes after dope and speed as a youth, and much later in life had bipolar disorder. So in their case the drugs probably unmasked their underlying illness. Interestingly there are studies around that are now able to drill down to the genetic level to assess risk:

"A recently published study using the Dunedin birth cohort data found that genetic predisposition moderated the effect of cannabis on psychosis. The gene of interest in this study coded for catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT). The COMT gene product is involved in the metabolism of dopamine (the neurotransmitter thought to be involved in psychotic symptoms), and has been implicated in studies of the genetic basis of schizophrenia [86]. In the population, there are three allelic variants of this gene: Val/Val Val/Met and Met/Met [142]. It was found that adolescent cannabis users with a particular variant of the COMT gene (Val/Val, 25% of the sample) were at risk of developing schizophreniform disorder by the age of 26, whereas adolescent cannabis users who did not have this variant were not at an increased risk of schizophreniform disorder [86]. Interestingly, Suzuki et al. [143] reported a similar association of vulnerability to the recurrence of methamphetamine psychosis with this allelic variation."

This is a pretty good summary, from the Gov: http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov...2A31B6C742DFE5CA25767E00122541/$File/m684.pdf

So in short, drugs are wasted (and too dangerous) for the young. Leave 'em to your Mums and Dads kiddies.

 

[Snake_Baker]

There has been debate for many years about dope & psychosis. Most studies show between about a 1.5 - 2x risk of developing psychosis in later life after cannabis use in adolescent years. It's thought not so much that dope 'causes' schizophrenia as unmasks it. In my family we have a relative who had a couple of psychotic episodes after dope and speed as a youth, and much later in life had bipolar disorder. So in their case the drugs probably unmasked their underlying illness. Interestingly there are studies around that are now able to drill down to the genetic level to assess risk:

"A recently published study using the Dunedin birth cohort data found that genetic predisposition moderated the effect of cannabis on psychosis. The gene of interest in this study coded for catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT). The COMT gene product is involved in the metabolism of dopamine (the neurotransmitter thought to be involved in psychotic symptoms), and has been implicated in studies of the genetic basis of schizophrenia [86]. In the population, there are three allelic variants of this gene: Val/Val Val/Met and Met/Met [142]. It was found that adolescent cannabis users with a particular variant of the COMT gene (Val/Val, 25% of the sample) were at risk of developing schizophreniform disorder by the age of 26, whereas adolescent cannabis users who did not have this variant were not at an increased risk of schizophreniform disorder [86]. Interestingly, Suzuki et al. [143] reported a similar association of vulnerability to the recurrence of methamphetamine psychosis with this allelic variation."

This is a pretty good summary, from the Gov: http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov...2A31B6C742DFE5CA25767E00122541/$File/m684.pdf

So in short, drugs are wasted (and too dangerous) for the young. Leave 'em to your Mums and Dads kiddies.

Do you have any data on hand for this? Links?

 

[LFTWNG11]

http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov...2A31B6C742DFE5CA25767E00122541/$File/m684.pdf

"The evidence of a cross-sectional association between cannabis use and psychosis is not enough to be able to conclude that cannabis causes psychosis. First of all, evidence of association does not provide information about the temporal relationship of the cannabis psychosis relationship. It remains possible that experiencing psychosis could make it more likely that people go on to use cannabis"

 

[Sinjin Smith]

the short answer is we just don't know yet. there's some research on the topic; some studies have found a correlation, but others haven't. given the sheer amount of reefer that is used around the world on a daily basis, i don't think it could be classed as a cause of schizophrenia. however, there is enough evidence to at least ask whether it has an impact on those with underlying psychosis issues. eg:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_and_psychosis

Great post. Like booze I think it excasberates underlying issues, my opinion only. I've got a pretty addictive mental thought process hence I've stayed away from most substances and activities such as gambling however I do realise this is my issue.

I like a drink, a smoke and lines however if I hit it for too long I end up in a bad place. The substances aren't really to blame (though they don't help) there's an underlying brain process that is the cause.

I know multi million dollar heroin users, they operate normally.