SE Qld RL heartland

[SaveFeriss]

This topic is down under one guise or the other every single week on BF.

Regarding the title of the thread, SEQ may have been RL heartland, but is no longer.

RL does not rule the heart strings of Brisbane and Gold Coast people (SEQld is Bris & GC).

RL may dominate, but it is not HEARTLAND any longer. It is a League rich area, very wealthy, but there is now a substantial Rules push throught SEQld which is healthy and growing alongside League.

Though AFL will become the dominantor within 15 years I think.

 

[littleduck]

More flashbacks from RL fans about the Broncos goldern era and their 'huge' crowds.....Carlton and Collingwood fans dont go on about getting 122 k to a game, now do they? Stop living in the past stooges

To my knowledge, no H&A game has ever got over 100000?

 

[littleduck]

This topic is down under one guise or the other every single week on BF.

Regarding the title of the thread, SEQ may have been RL heartland, but is no longer.

RL does not rule the heart strings of Brisbane and Gold Coast people (SEQld is Bris & GC).

RL may dominate, but it is not HEARTLAND any longer. It is a League rich area, very wealthy, but there is now a substantial Rules push throught SEQld which is healthy and growing alongside League.

Though AFL will become the dominantor within 15 years I think.

I can go along with most of that, except to say that League remains undisputed market leader in SEQ according to all key criteria which means it is still League heartland, it just doesn't dominate to the extent that it once did. It still remains the football code of choice in the hearts of SEQ'ers, there is just no outlet to express that passion for the game other than the Qld Maroons. Most are ambivalent about the Broncos.

I agree SEQ is a weakness for RL, and it's not unrealistic to think AFL might be ahead within 15 years, should the NRL continue to neglect this highly populated region and the AFL push continue.

 

[SaveFeriss]

LittleDuck.. I just had a quick look around to find some H&A attendance stats with no luc, but I think you will find that from about the 1940's-1970's H&A games did attract more than 100,000 spectators on numerous occasions.

Just wish I had the Data, but I have to go into Sufferers Parasite so no time..

But Im fairly confident all the same.

 

[littleduck]

Just wish I had the Data, but I have to go into Sufferers Parasite so no time..

Hope you return safely from that hole. IMO Broadbeach is now the best part of the South Coast, followed by Coolongatta.

 

[littleduck]

LittleDuck.. I just had a quick look around to find some H&A attendance stats with no luc, but I think you will find that from about the 1940's-1970's H&A games did attract more than 100,000 spectators on numerous occasions.

...

But Im fairly confident all the same.

According to stats.rleague.com the best H&A crowds in AFL/VFL are:

99,346 - Melbourne v Collingwood @ MCG, 1958
94,825 - Collingwood v Essendon @ MCG, 1995
92,935 - Hawthorn v Collingwood @ Waverley Park, 1981
91,936 - Richmond v Collingwood @ MCG, 1977
91,571 - Essendon v Carlton @ MCG, 2000
90,564 - Richmond v Essendon @ MCG, 1982
88,390 - Collingwood v Essendon @ MCG, 2000
88,066 - Essendon v Collingwood @ MCG, 1992
87,894 - Essendon v Carlton @ MCG, 1995
87,653 - Geelong v Essendon @ MCG, 1989

 

[littleduck]

According to stats.rleague.com the best H&A crowds in AFL/VFL are:

99,346 - Melbourne v Collingwood @ MCG, 1958
94,825 - Collingwood v Essendon @ MCG, 1995
92,935 - Hawthorn v Collingwood @ Waverley Park, 1981
91,936 - Richmond v Collingwood @ MCG, 1977
91,571 - Essendon v Carlton @ MCG, 2000
90,564 - Richmond v Essendon @ MCG, 1982
88,390 - Collingwood v Essendon @ MCG, 2000
88,066 - Essendon v Collingwood @ MCG, 1992
87,894 - Essendon v Carlton @ MCG, 1995
87,653 - Geelong v Essendon @ MCG, 1989

Interestingly, the biggest ever H&A crowd for any code in Australia belongs to an NRL match -- 104,583.

According to stats.rleague.com the best H&A crowds in NRL/ARL/NSWRL are:
104583 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, March 1999
62255 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, February 2000
58593 - Brisbane v St George @ QEII, August 1993
57212 - Brisbane v Gold Coast @ QEII, June 1993
55934 - St George v Balmain @ SCG, June 1966
54833 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, February 2001
54751 - Brisbane v Canterbury @ QEII, July 1993
54645 - Brisbane v Warriors @ QEII, August 1995
53146 - Souths v St George @ SCG, August 1969
51919 - St George v Parramatta @ SCG, August 1964
51517 - Brisbane v Parramatta @ QEII, March 1993
50153 - Souths v St George @ SCG, July 1967
50130 - Manly v Easts @ SCG, May 1974

 

[ComicStoreGuy]

Interestingly, the biggest ever H&A crowd for any code in Australia belongs to an NRL match -- 104,583.

Umm no that's two matches, because arn't there two games played at a double header, the real crowd at that match was 52291.5
.

 

[grayham]

According to stats.rleague.com the best H&A crowds in NRL/ARL/NSWRL are:
104583 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, March 1999
62255 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, February 2000
54833 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, February 2001

The Old double header concept sure died in the arse didnt it.
2002, 2003, and 2004 figures didnt even make the top 20.

 

[Qsaint]

.

I agree SEQ is a weakness for RL, and it's not unrealistic to think AFL might be ahead within 15 years, should the NRL continue to neglect this highly populated region and the AFL push continue.

It is definately changing littleduck, and it not neglect by the NRL, the courier mail is still full of 6 pages of RL and 1 or 2 of AFL, the NRL promote everything. But AFL is definately gaining marketshare and the NRL in my opinion can't do anything about it. RL will probably survive but AFL will be the code of choice sooner rather than later. RU is still strong and will get much better if the REDs can actually win a few games, Reds v Waratahs and Australia v Someone(Not England/SA or NZ because we haven't got a large stadium) still pull huge crowds compared to the Bronco's. If we had a stadium big enough you would definately get your 80k to a Bledisloe game and the Lions would certainly fill more seats with a good game than the Bronco's. The interesting thing is RU is still growing everywhere and is not competing directly with the AFL, smart move by the RU, so you can still support the Wallabies and your AFL team. RL on the otherhand is fighting the ARL and the RU at the same time.

 

[Qsaint]

The Old double header concept sure died in the arse didnt it.
2002, 2003, and 2004 figures didnt even make the top 20.

Wasn't the 99 game the opening of the olympic stadium? So just like the opening of Lang Park the crowd was inflated. Also they gave away heaps of tickets..................................

By the way the RU crowd Australia v NZ was bigger anyway

 

[grayham]

Lets divide littled1cks NRL crowds into gimmick games, and normal games.

Gimmick games (new stadium / new team / double header)

104583 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, March 1999
62255 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, February 2000
58593 - Brisbane v St George @ QEII, August 1993
57212 - Brisbane v Gold Coast @ QEII, June 1993
54833 - Double Header @ Stadium Australia, February 2001
54751 - Brisbane v Canterbury @ QEII, July 1993
54645 - Brisbane v Warriors @ QEII, August 1995
51517 - Brisbane v Parramatta @ QEII, March 1993

Normal games:

55934 - St George v Balmain @ SCG, June 1966
53146 - Souths v St George @ SCG, August 1969
51919 - St George v Parramatta @ SCG, August 1964
50153 - Souths v St George @ SCG, July 1967
50130 - Manly v Easts @ SCG, May 1974

So in all of 100 odd years the best H&A crowd stuggles past 50,000, yet the Swans got 50,000 up against the RU WC replay a few weeks back and RL types like littled1ck and Moffo were laughing about it. Not to mention, the swans have already clocked up 4 crowds over 50K at Homebush already.

Last normal 50K+ RL crowd was back in 1974.

Funny, also that the SCG is no longer a RL ground.

 

[Qsaint]

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1264&storyid=1756569

Club chiefs don't want 16th team

THE majority of club chief executives met yesterday and expressed strong concerns about a 16th club being added to the NRL premiership.


And the CEOs want the NRL to pass on their anxiety to the game's six-member partnership committee, which on Monday discusses whether to admit a new team.

The partnership committee – comprising the ARL's Colin Love, John McDonald and Nick Politis and News Ltd's Peter Macourt, Ian Philip and Stephen Loosley – will be handed a 400-page document on a 16th side.


Although not on the agenda for yesterday's seven-hour chief executive's meeting, the 16th team debate was discussed with many CEOs worried about the financial strain a new club would place on the game.


"Thirteen of the 15 clubs are losing money – how can the game possibly afford a 16th team?" asked Parramatta chief executive Denis Fitzgerald.


Clubs want the NRL's $2.5 million annual grant to increase to equal the game's $3.25 million salary cap.


Knights chief executive Ken Conway suggested rugby league was still $15 million short of being "run comfortably."


No vote on a 16th team was taken yesterday by the CEOs with most aware the final decision – on whether Central Coast, Gold Coast or Wellington win through – lay solely with the partnership committee.


"The game is under-funded so an extra side doesn't seem good business to us," said Dragons chief executive Peter Doust. "Expansion may not be in the overall interests of the game at this point in time."




Going well isn't it, the AFL has teams that are losing money as well, but AFL revenue as a whole can support them. The NRL can not even though the Salary Cap is about 50% of the AFL.

 

[Beaussie]

Wasn't the 99 game the opening of the olympic stadium? So just like the opening of Lang Park the crowd was inflated. Also they gave away heaps of tickets.

That is correct. The Daily Telegraph was also offering its readers $5 tickets for weeks before the game.

 

[dr nick]

87,000 went to an Origin game in Melbourne in 1994. You wish to retract your comments?

ahh the memories.... when we all thought the game was going to be a massive hit in Melbourne.

 

[littleduck]

It is definately changing littleduck, and it not neglect by the NRL, the courier mail is still full of 6 pages of RL and 1 or 2 of AFL, the NRL promote everything. But AFL is definately gaining marketshare and the NRL in my opinion can't do anything about it. RL will probably survive but AFL will be the code of choice sooner rather than later. RU is still strong and will get much better if the REDs can actually win a few games, Reds v Waratahs and Australia v Someone(Not England/SA or NZ because we haven't got a large stadium) still pull huge crowds compared to the Bronco's. If we had a stadium big enough you would definately get your 80k to a Bledisloe game and the Lions would certainly fill more seats with a good game than the Bronco's. The interesting thing is RU is still growing everywhere and is not competing directly with the AFL, smart move by the RU, so you can still support the Wallabies and your AFL team. RL on the otherhand is fighting the ARL and the RU at the same time.

Some good points. I think you're on the right track.

But I totally disagree when you say "... the NRL in my opinion can't do anything about it". Admitting the Gold Coast Dolphins will go a long way to RL reasserting itself, and ensure RL remains the undisputed market leader during our lifetime. It will mean an NRL match in SEQ every weekend of the season, which is the very minimum for RL to remain the preferred code. IMO for RL to ensure SEQ comfortably remains true heartland ahead of all other codes, there needs to be 2 Brisbane teams and 1 Gold Coast team. It is likely that there will be 1 Brisbane team and 1 Gold Coast team soon, but that will still leave Brisbane vulnerable IMO. Brisbane IMO will remain vulnerable while ever there is only the Broncos up against the Lions with a possibility of a relocation from Melbourne sooner rather than later. Whether the GC Dolphins are admitted or not, I still believe 2 AFL teams based at the Gabba up against 1 NRL team across town at Lang Park could see AFL eventually push ahead. IMO it's madness that Lang Park is not home to 2 NRL teams.

Also, let's not forget Rugby League retains the most popular football match in town EVERY season, that is the State of Origin. Twice every 2nd year. Big club games from the Broncos can attract nearly 400000 tv audience, something which the Lions and Wallabies cannot match. On the other hand, State of Origin is regularly in a league of its own attracting upwards of 700000 Brisbanites. This means RL can harness state pride like no other code can dream of, including the Qld Reds. This IMO is unlikely to change.

Tv audience is a comprehensive victory to RL. Unfortunately, like big crowds, a strong tv audience is not nearly enough!

Also, you haven't factored in the inevitable Lions slide down the ladder (only one way to go from 3 peat premiers, thats down). IMO the only chance for AFL growth to continue in Brisbane after the era has ended is for the Lions to remain top 8 finals series regulars like the Broncos. The greatest danger IMO is the AFL (and fans) thinking they have it made in Brisbane and removing concessions.

 

[littleduck]

That is correct. The Daily Telegraph was also offering its readers $5 tickets for weeks before the game.

Maybe, I wouldnt know. But I hope you dont think the AFL hasnt ever gone through stages of handing out freebies and/or cheap tickets.

 

[Qsaint]

Maybe, I wouldnt know. But I hope you dont think the AFL hasnt ever gone through stages of handing out freebies and/or cheap tickets.

It was true, and when has the AFL ever given out tickets to a match between it's two best preforming or most supported teams, let alone a double header?

 

[littleduck]

It was true, and when has the AFL ever given out tickets to a match between it's two best preforming or most supported teams, let alone a double header?

I don't know. I'm just talking generally.. it's nieve to think the AFL have never offered super cheap tickets and/or freebies in its time.

 

[butterflykiss]

Not too bad eh?

AFL releases record figures for 2004
Sportal


The AFL has released its mid-season review indicating the league has never been more popular.

Club memberships and television audiences are at record levels while attendances in 2004 are on course to be the second highest in league history (behind the 1998 season) despite the reduced capacity of the MCG.

The AFL’s mid-season review revealed total club membership was on the verge of reaching 500,000 for the first time while crowds were up 3.5 percent after round 13 in 2004 compared to this time last year.

Television audiences were even healthier with total free-to-air viewers up 6.3 percent compared to last year while overall the figures are up nearly 20 percent compared to 2002 – the first year of the current five year agreement with Channels Nine, Ten and Foxtel.

And visitors to the AFL’s official website are also at record levels – up 47 percent on 2003 with Collingwood and Carlton recording the most unique visitors per month.

Overall club membership was up 7.6 percent on last year to a combined total for all 16 clubs of 498,355 with Adelaide still recording the most members of just over 45,500 despite suffering a three percent drop on last year’s membership figures.

The only other clubs to suffer membership falls were Carlton (four percent), Hawthorn (one percent) and Western Bulldogs (nine percent) with Fremantle (29 percent), St Kilda (29 percent) and Brisbane (24 percent) recording the biggest increases.

Attendances are up overall again despite crowds at the MCG – which is undergoing re-building work ahead of the 2006 Commonwealth Games – being down by 133,000.

The increased popularity of Telstra Dome has helped to off-set this with average crowds at Docklands of between 3,000 and 4,000 per match while Perth and Brisbane are attracting their highest crowds on record.

There has been an 11 percent increase in crowds in Perth this year, due mostly to the improvement of Fremantle, while crowds for Lions’ matches are still up 10 percent despite the Gabba only being capable of holding 36,000.

However crowds in South Australia, long considered to be the AFL’s most passionate state, are down four percent with league boss Andrew Demetriou saying the league was working with the SANFL to find out why this was the case.

But Adelaide is still the league’s highest drawing club after 13 rounds in 2004 despite a four percent fall in crowds, narrowly ahead of Collingwood which has surprisingly experienced a ten percent drop in crowds.

However this has been off-set by the huge increases in crowds for other clubs particularly league leaders St Kilda, who have jumped to third on the AFL’s crowds tally this season thanks to a 27 percent increase while Carlton have enjoyed the biggest increase in crowds of 32 percent.

The results thrilled AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou.

“Thus far all our indicators are increasing again and in particular our membership was a phenomenal result this year,” he said.

 

[grayham]

Not too bad eh?

AFL releases record figures for 2004
Sportal


The AFL has released its mid-season review indicating the league has never been more popular.
<snip>
“Thus far all our indicators are increasing again and in particular our membership was a phenomenal result this year,” he said.

Yeah, But what about the abismal state of umprining in the AFL Andy ?

 

[littleduck]

Not too bad eh?

AFL releases record figures for 2004
Sportal


The AFL has released its mid-season review indicating the league has never been more popular.

Club memberships and television audiences are at record levels while attendances in 2004 are on course to be the second highest in league history (behind the 1998 season) despite the reduced capacity of the MCG.

The AFL’s mid-season review revealed total club membership was on the verge of reaching 500,000 for the first time while crowds were up 3.5 percent after round 13 in 2004 compared to this time last year.

Television audiences were even healthier with total free-to-air viewers up 6.3 percent compared to last year while overall the figures are up nearly 20 percent compared to 2002 – the first year of the current five year agreement with Channels Nine, Ten and Foxtel.

And visitors to the AFL’s official website are also at record levels – up 47 percent on 2003 with Collingwood and Carlton recording the most unique visitors per month.

Overall club membership was up 7.6 percent on last year to a combined total for all 16 clubs of 498,355 with Adelaide still recording the most members of just over 45,500 despite suffering a three percent drop on last year’s membership figures.

The only other clubs to suffer membership falls were Carlton (four percent), Hawthorn (one percent) and Western Bulldogs (nine percent) with Fremantle (29 percent), St Kilda (29 percent) and Brisbane (24 percent) recording the biggest increases.

Attendances are up overall again despite crowds at the MCG – which is undergoing re-building work ahead of the 2006 Commonwealth Games – being down by 133,000.

The increased popularity of Telstra Dome has helped to off-set this with average crowds at Docklands of between 3,000 and 4,000 per match while Perth and Brisbane are attracting their highest crowds on record.

There has been an 11 percent increase in crowds in Perth this year, due mostly to the improvement of Fremantle, while crowds for Lions’ matches are still up 10 percent despite the Gabba only being capable of holding 36,000.

However crowds in South Australia, long considered to be the AFL’s most passionate state, are down four percent with league boss Andrew Demetriou saying the league was working with the SANFL to find out why this was the case.

But Adelaide is still the league’s highest drawing club after 13 rounds in 2004 despite a four percent fall in crowds, narrowly ahead of Collingwood which has surprisingly experienced a ten percent drop in crowds.

However this has been off-set by the huge increases in crowds for other clubs particularly league leaders St Kilda, who have jumped to third on the AFL’s crowds tally this season thanks to a 27 percent increase while Carlton have enjoyed the biggest increase in crowds of 32 percent.

The results thrilled AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou.

“Thus far all our indicators are increasing again and in particular our membership was a phenomenal result this year,” he said.

Great news. It would seem all codes are achieving growth in most areas of the game. Sport is the winner at the end of the day.

Although, no mention of Sydney in that otherwise positive article.

 

[Joffaboy]

Although, no mention of Sydney in that otherwise positive article.

What Sydney not part of the 16 team comp. Contributed significantly to the 498k club members.

How many members does rl have?

 

[Beaussie]

What Sydney not part of the 16 team comp. Contributed significantly to the 498k club members.

How many members does rl have?

The Swans more than likely have more members than all the NRL clubs put together. From memory, when Wests merged with Balmain, 600 members decided the fate of the Wests Magpies club.

 

[littleduck]

What Sydney not part of the 16 team comp. Contributed significantly to the 498k club members.

How many members does rl have?

RL clubs dont operate on the same membership-based structure as AFL clubs.