Toast Sean Dempster retires.

[Diehard Saint]

Amateur hour. Who ever the media Mgr is they're having a rough week.

I agree with waldy the Dempster thing has been handled horribly bad. Again we've new and wonderful ways to let the media beat up on one of our greats. Last year it was roo with the get off the ground saga.

BT on SEN called it right with one of his tweets. Our club invited this speculation because they didn't handle it properly

Why? Everything the club does does not have to be in the public eye.
They were trying to handle it privately, even mentioned that Dempster is a private person.

The club is entitled to select or not select whoever they want without deferring to the media. And Dempster and the club are entitled to have whatever discussions they are having behind closed doors. Nobody's business but the parties involved.

Just because one slimy, pathetic gossip monger gleans some information and tries to create a huge saga out of it doesn't mean the club handled it badly.

 

[dewah07]

heck me what are the saints media campaigners doing, we literally did nothing wrong but come out of it looking like spuds.

thought finnis wanted to be the leader in communication and understanding where their at, seems to be an obvious shift the last 15 months IMO

 

[StCicatriz]

Why? Everything the club does does not have to be in the public eye.
They were trying to handle it privately, even mentioned that Dempster is a private person.

The club is entitled to select or not select whoever they want without deferring to the media. And Dempster and the club are entitled to have whatever discussions they are having behind closed doors. Nobody's business but the parties involved.

Just because one slimy, pathetic gossip monger gleans some information and tries to create a huge saga out of it doesn't mean the club handled it badly.

You have to control the narrative. There's no point hiding shit in football because as we've seen with degoey, albeit a different incident, the truth comes out eventually. Because we didn't control the narrative we let Damo make out like he had this exclusive of something that was only known to those behind closed doors. So the extension of that is he could allude to some bullshit dramatic reason as to what was happening. He exploited our poor handling of the situation.

We should have just been honest and said Dempster isn't available for selection for round 2 due to a medical situation. The matter is private and we ask for privacy in this instance. Eventually people would find out its related to concussion but you atleast avoid people's rumour mongering and speculation that there's some falling out with the club over selection. The only thing you probably would want to avoid here is people speculation about drugs.

 

[Diehard Saint]

You have to control the narrative. There's no point hiding shit in football because as we've seen with degoey, albeit a different incident, the truth comes out eventually. Because we didn't control the narrative we let Damo make out like he had this exclusive of something that was only known to those behind closed doors. So the extension of that is he could allude to some bullshit dramatic reason as to what was happening. He exploited our poor handling of the situation.

We should have just been honest and said Dempster isn't available for selection for round 2 due to a medical situation. The matter is private and we ask for privacy in this instance. Eventually people would find out its related to concussion but you atleast avoid people's rumour mongering and speculation that there's some falling out with the club over selection. The only thing you probably would want to avoid here is people speculation about drugs.

I do get your point but I find it abhorrent that we actually have to pander to the media and do this.

I know everything AFL related is huge news, especially here in Melbourne, but it irks me that these irresponsible jerks like Barrett and Lyon (" he should be made an example of and forced to play in the VFL until he regains his spot because of his sooking") can get away with these kind of stories and never be held accountable for anything scurrilous they put out there.

So yes, I guess the best way IS to pre empt them and prevent them from claiming a news exclusive, but I still think it's ridiculous to have to disclose everything going on at a club.

 

[StCicatriz]

I do get your point but I find it abhorrent that we actually have to pander to the media and do this.

I know everything AFL related is huge news, especially here in Melbourne, but it irks me that these irresponsible jerks like Barrett and Lyon (" he should be made an example of and forced to play in the VFL until he regains his spot because of his sooking") can get away with these kind of stories and never be held accountable for anything scurrilous they put out there.

So yes, I guess the best way IS to pre empt them and prevent them from claiming a news exclusive, but I still think it's ridiculous to have to disclose everything going on at a club.

I agree with what you're saying it sucks that people are low enough to speculate and allude to stuff that's not there in such a mainstream forum.

But sadly it's how the media works

Hutchy and Damo have an excellent podcast that talks about this stuff called the sounding board. They even touch on how hutchy got sued by kozi for defaming him.

Damo is definitely not dumb. Hes a very experienced media operator who knows how to generate a story. He saw a hole and he exploited it for everything it was worth. It was the biggest talking point coming out of the footy show. His boss hutchy and the ch9 senior management would be stoked with the attention it got.

We have to learn from that

Even if the selection dramas were true we'd still want to deflect that by getting on the front foot and spinning it. We tell the story. Not barret

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

There's a different between three first game debutants (Sydney) and three who've all played senior football two playing 90+ games each.

You're not comparing apples with apples. Sydney has to blood debutants due to the way their list is after a period of sustained success. We are at a very different stage of development to Sydney where we have the cattle and want to get games into them with the odd debutant, (Long). Add Carlisle to that also I suppose.

 

[Mowman]

I agree with what you're saying it sucks that people are low enough to speculate and allude to stuff that's not there in such a mainstream forum.

But sadly it's how the media works

Hutchy and Damo have an excellent podcast that talks about this stuff called the sounding board. They even touch on how hutchy got sued by kozi for defaming him.

Damo is definitely not dumb. Hes a very experienced media operator who knows how to generate a story. He saw a hole and he exploited it for everything it was worth. It was the biggest talking point coming out of the footy show. His boss hutchy and the ch9 senior management would be stoked with the attention it got.

We have to learn from that

Even if the selection dramas were true we'd still want to deflect that by getting on the front foot and spinning it. We tell the story. Not barret

We should already know this.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

**Warning: The following contains the unsolicited musings of a frustrated Saints fan**


For many years I (like all of you) have watched every controversial event that comes within four degrees of St.Kilda play out negatively in the media. Unfortunately for all of us, witnessing sensationalist headlines and reading very wrong explanations of events has become second nature to St.Kilda supporters.

Without needing to delve into the archives of St.Kilda history, every AFL ‘expert’ we care to talk to will give us their unsolicited thoughts on the ‘schoolgirl saga’, the Lovett sacking or the behind the scenes operations of the football club in the 1980’s.

Occasionally very legitimate column inches devoted to real injustices and issues, such as Caro’s recent expose on the money owed to past players. However most have no basis in truth whatsoever, and would sit quite comfortably on the front page of this week’s New Idea. Example A was the ‘alternative facts’ Barret unearthed to smear the most experienced, decorated and respected player on our list (behind a 5 time club champion) a couple of nights ago.

My question is this: What Aristotelian confluence of events would it take for out President to actually speak in the media?

The players, staff, 30k+ members and thousands of supporters deserve clear leadership, and surely want to see someone of importance respond immediately and publicly to ill-informed and scandalous comments. Over recent years I have occasionally witnessed Nettlefold, Fininis or (as of today) Richardson respond to media enquiries around difficult or controversial topics. However, when was the last time someone heard Westaway or Summers publicly defend our club when it is attacked from the outside?

How many of our own supporters (let alone other teams) can even remember the last time they witnessed our current President speak in public? Who is actually the off-field public face of our club? Is it written in the rules governing St.Kilda that a President must have the oratory presence of Humphrey B.Bear? Because the media silence policy is really not working for us!

This is not about making the office bigger than the jumper, or having board members interfere with on-field business. Certain times Roo, Richo or Geary will be required to represent the club. Marketing can handle issues such as branding. However, comments on serious and emerging issues such as stadium deals or player well-being should be handled by the highest office in the club. He (or she) needs to be shielding our players and coaching staff from ill-informed speculation and unnecessary distractions (as well as agitating for the best outcomes for the club behind the scenes this requires a media precence that is both proactive and reactive). Where was the clear statement first thing Thursday morning from the leader of our football club denouncing Barret’s baseless story and defending Sean? Where was the top-down commitment to right the wrongs visited on players who sacrificed for our jumper in the 80’s – and actually kept the club alive – after their stories were publicly aired recently?

Internally this club might be better run than it has ever been before. However, how our club operations are projected in public matters to tens of thousands of stakeholders (ie the fans), and I am sure it matters to Sean Dempster right now.

We don’t need (or even want) Eddie, Koschie or Brayshaw levels of media dribble from a President. But surely a basic requirement of the office should be to lead the football club both internally and externally.

One of the best St.Kilda clubman of recent years deserved a better and more immediate response from the club’s leadership. And if we want this to stop happening we really need to be better led.

 

[Diehard Saint]

**Warning: The following contains the unsolicited musings of a frustrated Saints fan**


For many years I (like all of you) have watched every controversial event that comes within four degrees of St.Kilda play out negatively in the media. Unfortunately for all of us, witnessing sensationalist headlines and reading very wrong explanations of events has become second nature to St.Kilda supporters.

Without needing to delve into the archives of St.Kilda history, every AFL ‘expert’ we care to talk to will give us their unsolicited thoughts on the ‘schoolgirl saga’, the Lovett sacking or the behind the scenes operations of the football club in the 1980’s.

Occasionally very legitimate column inches devoted to real injustices and issues, such as Caro’s recent expose on the money owed to past players. However most have no basis in truth whatsoever, and would sit quite comfortably on the front page of this week’s New Idea. Example A was the ‘alternative facts’ Barret unearthed to smear the most experienced, decorated and respected player on our list (behind a 5 time club champion) a couple of nights ago.

My question is this: What Aristotelian confluence of events would it take for out President to actually speak in the media?

The players, staff, 30k+ members and thousands of supporters deserve clear leadership, and want to see someone respond immediately and publicly to ill-informed and scandalous comments. Over recent years I have occasionally witnessed Nettlefold, Fininis or (as of today) Richardson respond to media enquiries around difficult or controversial topics. However, when was the last time someone heard Westaway or Summers publicly defend our club when it is attacked from the outside?

How many of our own supporters (let alone other teams) can even remember the last time they witnessed our current President speak in public? Who is actually the off-field public face of our club? Is it written in the rules governing St.Kilda that a President must have the oratory presence of Humphrey B.Bear?

This is not about making the office bigger than the jumper, or having board members interfere with on-field business. Certain times Roo, Richo or Geary will be required to represent the club. Marketing can handle issues such as branding. However, comments on serious emerging issues such as stadium deals or player well-being should be handled publicly by the highest office in the club. He (or she) needs to be shielding our players and coaching staff from ill-informed speculation and unnecessary distractions. Where was the clear statement first thing Thursday morning from the leader of our football club denouncing Barret’s baseless story and defending Sean. Where was the top-down commitment to right the wrongs visited on players who sacrificed for our jumper in the 80’s – and actually kept the club alive – after their stories were publicly aired recently?

Internally this club might be better run than it has ever been before. However, how our club operations are projected matters to tens of thousands of stakeholders (ie the fans), and I am sure it matters to Sean Dempster right now.

We don’t need (or even want) Eddie, Koschie or Brayshaw levels of media presence from a President. But a basic requirement of the office should be to lead the football club both internally and externally.

One of the best St.Kilda clubman of recent years deserved a better and more immediate response from the club’s leadership. If we want this to stop happening to the club we really need to be more proactive – and better led.

I've always wondered at the silence by the President of the time after events such as those mentioned.
Sirengate and Whispers in the Sky also come to mind.

 

[George]

Nup. I don't buy that. Fact is, Richo not playing them didn't just hurt their chances to play with us, but hurt their chances anywhere else. No club is going to take seriously two midfielders who couldn't get a game at St Kilda in the last 3 years, given our poor performances. Another club's logic would be that if they couldn't get a game even then, they must be crap. It doesn't matter if TC or Eli go somewhere and say, "Nah, look at our VFL performances - we SHOULD have been picked, but Richo kept playing his favourites, all in the name of 'helping their development'." Nobody will take them seriously now. Moreover, the other club will look at the handful of games they DID play, and think their performances were poor. It doesn't matter how much TC or Eli explain they were played as forward pockets in teams that barely saw the ball in the forward half (thanks to those mids like Luke that were doing bugger all in there).

George, you're friends with Tommy. Tell me I'm wrong.

Yeah mate Tom is one of the most loyal guys you'd ever meet. He was just honored to have played at the level. Definitely thought he was up to AFL standard (as did plenty of others) but like you said once you are delisted from any club really the mountain to climb is definitely a lot higher.

He definitely misses it but understands why the club did what they did.

 

[VDS66]

Really?

 

[austinnn]

**Warning: The following contains the unsolicited musings of a frustrated Saints fan**


For many years I (like all of you) have watched every controversial event that comes within four degrees of St.Kilda play out negatively in the media. Unfortunately for all of us, witnessing sensationalist headlines and reading very wrong explanations of events has become second nature to St.Kilda supporters.

Without needing to delve into the archives of St.Kilda history, every AFL ‘expert’ we care to talk to will give us their unsolicited thoughts on the ‘schoolgirl saga’, the Lovett sacking or the behind the scenes operations of the football club in the 1980’s.

Occasionally very legitimate column inches devoted to real injustices and issues, such as Caro’s recent expose on the money owed to past players. However most have no basis in truth whatsoever, and would sit quite comfortably on the front page of this week’s New Idea. Example A was the ‘alternative facts’ Barret unearthed to smear the most experienced, decorated and respected player on our list (behind a 5 time club champion) a couple of nights ago.

My question is this: What Aristotelian confluence of events would it take for out President to actually speak in the media?

The players, staff, 30k+ members and thousands of supporters deserve clear leadership, and surely want to see someone of importance respond immediately and publicly to ill-informed and scandalous comments. Over recent years I have occasionally witnessed Nettlefold, Fininis or (as of today) Richardson respond to media enquiries around difficult or controversial topics. However, when was the last time someone heard Westaway or Summers publicly defend our club when it is attacked from the outside?

How many of our own supporters (let alone other teams) can even remember the last time they witnessed our current President speak in public? Who is actually the off-field public face of our club? Is it written in the rules governing St.Kilda that a President must have the oratory presence of Humphrey B.Bear? Because the media silence policy is really not working for us!

This is not about making the office bigger than the jumper, or having board members interfere with on-field business. Certain times Roo, Richo or Geary will be required to represent the club. Marketing can handle issues such as branding. However, comments on serious and emerging issues such as stadium deals or player well-being should be handled by the highest office in the club. He (or she) needs to be shielding our players and coaching staff from ill-informed speculation and unnecessary distractions (as well as agitating for the best outcomes for the club behind the scenes this requires a media precence that is both proactive and reactive). Where was the clear statement first thing Thursday morning from the leader of our football club denouncing Barret’s baseless story and defending Sean? Where was the top-down commitment to right the wrongs visited on players who sacrificed for our jumper in the 80’s – and actually kept the club alive – after their stories were publicly aired recently?

Internally this club might be better run than it has ever been before. However, how our club operations are projected in public matters to tens of thousands of stakeholders (ie the fans), and I am sure it matters to Sean Dempster right now.

We don’t need (or even want) Eddie, Koschie or Brayshaw levels of media dribble from a President. But surely a basic requirement of the office should be to lead the football club both internally and externally.

One of the best St.Kilda clubman of recent years deserved a better and more immediate response from the club’s leadership. And if we want this to stop happening we really need to be better led.

I'm not so sure I want the president speaking out every time there is a little ripple in our pool. I don't want to sound uncaring to Shinner or naive to the concept of controlling the media narrative, which was an excellent and elementary point well made, but I wouldn't class this as a Red Alert situation. This was one highly respected veteran player reported to be considering retirement due to being disillusioned with the club, hardly the biggest scandal. It was sufficient for Richo or Finnis to come out and squash the rumour I think, even if it was a little late.

I am willing to bet that the following happened;

Dempster sought medical advice about sustained effects of concussion and weighed up within the club the pros and cons of continuing in the twos.

The club suggested clarifying this publicly,

Dempster indicated that he'd prefer to not be a story, reasoning that he didn't want pity, and perhaps didn't want to give opponents an advantage should he take the field in the future,

The club reluctantly respected Dempster's wishes, reasoning that an announcement could be made when Sean's decision was made.

Purple found out, and did what he does,

Roo - when quizzed on the footy show - was unsure of what Dempster wanted or what was best for the club, so played cards close to his chest,

Richo squashed the rumour with as little fuss as possible.

By getting the president involved, you're kind of giving more importance to rumour than you should.


On the other hand, I do get your query about the eternal silence of the president. I think that when their team started up, it must have been agreed that the CEO be the spokesperson for the club, and when you've got an enthusiastic and competent communicator in Finnis, why wouldn't you utilise that advantage? Some other clubs do it like us: How many club presidents can you name off the top of your head? Eddie, Kochie, the lady from the Tigers, and... ermm?? It's far more common these days for the CEO to be dishing out quotes and beating the drum.

I don't really see the problem.

 

[JG22]

'Damian Barrett has said he believes Sean Dempster and St Kilda are negotiating on a payout that could see Dempster walk away from the game.

Dempster has taken time from the game to deal with health issues, related to concussion.'

 

[sonnywalters]

You're not comparing apples with apples. Sydney has to blood debutants due to the way their list is after a period of sustained success. We are at a very different stage of development to Sydney where we have the cattle and want to get games into them with the odd debutant, (Long). Add Carlisle to that also I suppose.

We have the cattle?
I hadnt realised?
Based on what? We havent made finals since 2011.
Who says we 'have the cattle'?

 

[sonnywalters]

There is no conspiracy here people.
Sean has probably been considering his future since he was knocked out cold v Freo in 2014.
The head knock in JLT Rd 1 may have been the last straw and he may have had private advice from his doctor about the risks involved.
Pretty straight fwd.

 

[StCicatriz]

We should already know this.

Given the sagas of the past. I have to agree with you man

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

We have the cattle?
I hadnt realised?
Based on what? We havent made finals since 2011.
Who says we 'have the cattle'?

You're being very cute here - you hadn't realised? Well watch St Kilda play football then. "I hadn't realised" my a*se! What a stupid comment

We have a number of youngsters 18-24 yo whom we need to get games into and those same youngsters natural improvement will drive the team forward and help to win more games and make finals. Do I really need to list them all? Yes we need cream and we should always be trying to improve the list but that will only be 2-3 players at a time in trade/draft that could impact immediately.

It helps the Sydney 1st and 2 nd gamers to play with the 8-10 gun Sydney players like Buddy, Kennedy, Jack, Hannaberry and the like also

 

[StCicatriz]

There is no conspiracy here people.
Sean has probably been considering his future since he was knocked out cold v Freo in 2014.
The head knock in JLT Rd 1 may have been the last straw and he may have had private advice from his doctor about the risks involved.
Pretty straight fwd.

I had forgotten about that one. **** it was nasty as

 

[Up Bush]

I had forgotten about that one. **** it was nasty as[/QUOTE

There is no conspiracy here people.
Sean has probably been considering his future since he was knocked out cold v Freo in 2014.
The head knock in JLT Rd 1 may have been the last straw and he may have had private advice from his doctor about the risks involved.
Pretty straight fwd.

I guess this along with the two knockouts in 2011?

 

[VDS66]

His mum was on MMM today and confirmed he fell out of his cot at 7 months.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

I heard today that Shinner all but gone from club. Only sticking point is his payout, but it's all getting closer.

 

[King_Steele]

I heard today that Shinner all but gone from club. Only sticking point is his payout, but it's all getting closer.

All the best to Shinner.

5 grand finals for 1 win (05) is a little sour on our end

 

[NarrowMind]

I heard today that Shinner all but gone from club. Only sticking point is his payout, but it's all getting closer.

Cheers for the update.
Once everything has been settled, is there then anything standing in the way of an immediate upgrade for Marshall off the rookie list?

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Cheers for the update.
Once everything has been settled, is there then anything standing in the way of an immediate upgrade for Marshall off the rookie list?

IF Shinner goes then I believe the club have got clarification that he could be placed on LTI List as he'll be forced to retire due to injury.
Marshall would be the man to be promoted, coaches very excited about what he's delivered, probably even more so on training track in match sim than even the VFL.
What that means for our forward structure if he happened to play this year is beyond my comprehension currently!

 

[#gosaintas]

IF Shinner goes then I believe the club have got clarification that he could be placed on LTI List as he'll be forced to retire due to injury.
Marshall would be the man to be promoted, coaches very excited about what he's delivered, probably even more so on training track in match sim than even the VFL.
What that means for our forward structure if he happened to play this year is beyond my comprehension currently!

One of Members, Bruce or Paddy plays high. Roo plays back. Gilbert play where he belongs, at Sandy.
Otherwise Bruce plays back and Roo plays high.