SEN/Robbo/Hun: Essendon players have received show cause notices

[Barkly St End]

All the accusations around leaks and incompetence have really only come from Essendon supporters and the club. In fact that appears to be their only defence.

One thing is undeniable - the process is meant to be in private and the names of athletes are not meant to be known, in fact, nothing about the investigation is meant to be known.

As soon as ASADA agreed to do the joint investigation with the AFL - that blew that out of the water (and let's not forget the government announcement either).

So one way or the other, the correct process has not been followed, and the Essendon players have every right to question the process in the courts.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

the guy is a complete fanny-pack. He's been completely hard line on Essendon from the start, so him saying that is no surprise whatsoever and I'd put little to no store in it. Guy comes from an athletics b/g, and has backside pains over AFL getting perceived different treatment

So he's not drinking from the AFL boys club cup, he mustn't be trusted. I get it.


You've got to be careful about these guys who are hardline on drugs in sport.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I agree that is the norm, and that is the usual process - but I do not accept that ASADA has evidence of 34 players having been administered with TB4.

That is unlikely in the extreme.

So, is there anything which prohibits ASADA from using this process to extract the evidence they need - and I say to you - no, there is not.

McDevitt is talking deals already, if players confess - how on Earth can players confess? (did I take the good or bad Thymosin? how the hell would I know? I understood it was the good one, etc)

Once again, ASADA do not have the evidence and are hoping for something to fall out.

Evidence of the good thymosin purchased by the club, would probably be convincing, but if they can't produce said evidence, what then?

 

[Barkly St End]

Ah but you aren't calm. You are in damage control. All your long hours, your hard work of convincing everyone nothing would ever happen. All coming down crashing around you. So you have an imperative, you MUST convince us that you are right, and by god you'll do it in every thread available to you. Right?

Who ends up being right or not will depend on whether infraction notices ever see the light of day (which I think are unlikely in the extreme).

In the meantime, we have a flawed process, probably an illegal one, and the Essendon players are victims to a grave injustice.

 

[Bobby Charlton]

Are you gonna friggin troll every thread and put the same bullshit on each one.
You still haven't answered the question.
Did you know an athlete can be done for Intent to use not only for being administered a prohibited drug.

McDevitt says the show causes are for possible use.

 

[citizen-erased]

Any Essendon players found guilty of breaching anti-doping laws but are determined to have not had sufficient knowledge about what they were taking could have 75 per cent of the maximum penalty slashed.

Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority chief executive Ben McDevitt told 3AW on Friday that if any of the 34 past and present Essendon players caught up in the investigation weren’t aware of what they were taking they could face a minimum ban of one year, as opposed to the maximum of two years.

He said if players “provided substantial assistance”, including making a full admissions, there was an option of a further six months being slashed off their penalty.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...n-penalties-20140613-zs6i5.html#ixzz34TcvS4aS

morgoth

"substantial assistance" & full admissions is an interesting statement to make.
Each player has, I assume, cooperated with the investigation. If they respond to their SC letters (as opposed to ignoring them), what does substantial assistance mean? scavenger hunt for documents/evidence?

Full admissions as well. What can they admit to that wasn't asked in the interview process?

This is starting to sound like it has already played out and ASADA are setting the scene for a what has passed is punishment.
Hard line last night, soft touch this morning.
Little's response this afternoon will be interesting.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

So he's not drinking from the AFL boys club cup, he mustn't be trusted. I get it.


You've got to be careful about these guys who are hardline on drugs in sport.

well, on the one hand you'll scream blue murder about bias of some journalists like Chip, but on the other you'll discount it out of hand with a wink about guys like Colbert?

Ok then

 

[Barkly St End]

Charter's piece of the puzzle is only that he procured TB-4 for Dank.

And we know Dank had other business interests.

So I can't see how useful this "evidence" is.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Seriously how can you post this. Still no understanding of the process after 16 months. It's sad that HTB has not educated people properly.

You have no idea. Listen to McDevitt's interview on ABC radio.

 

[Belnakor]

So he's not drinking from the AFL boys club cup, he mustn't be trusted. I get it.


You've got to be careful about these guys who are hardline on drugs in sport.

LOL.

I love the way Essendon seem to think they should be dealt differently to everyone else in sport. Little's ego is obviously so out of control he thinks that he can get a different result to everyone else in an identical situation.

 

[Belnakor]

And we know Dank had other business interests.

So I can't see how useful this "evidence" is.

its pretty useful when Dank can't give another source for the "good" TB

 

[Satan]

He can sue Efc then

 

[Barkly St End]

"substantial assistance" & full admissions is an interesting statement to make.
Each player has, I assume, cooperated with the investigation. If they respond to their SC letters (as opposed to ignoring them), what does substantial assistance mean? scavenger hunt for documents/evidence?

Full admissions as well. What can they admit to that wasn't asked in the interview process?

This is precisely it - this is precisely what's going on here.

There is zero chance that ASADA has hard evidence of 34 footballers having been administered TB4.

They are hoping that one of them jumps up and says: yes, I did.

 

[Bobby Charlton]

Makes much more sense to go after something that explicitly banned. Alot more.

WADA has stated ADO is not permitted. ASADA have a duty to uphold the WADA code.

 

[legend166]

Hey guys I think BSE is right clearly there's no evidence that Essendon were given TB4. I mean there's certainly no public admission from Stephen Dank that he injected the whole list with TB4 or anything.

Oh wait, what's this?

NM: Thymosin Beta 4 – why was that used in Essendon players given there is an opinion from a doctor or researcher and other scientists that its effects are uncertain? (note: The AFL believes it has a strong circumstantial case that TB-4 was used on players.)

SD: That's not totally true Nick because, with all due respect, right, there is good data – very good data – that supports Thymosin Beta 4 in the immune system.

NM: OK, why give it to all Essendon players if only some of them had colds and flu?

SD: Well, the point is that there is a degree of immunosuppression after a game or a hard training week, right. Often times the ability to back up next week is decreased by the hit on the immune system.

NM: Did you see any indications in Essendon players that it actually helped them?

SD: Well apart from the fact they won 11 out of their first 14, right, and we did regular bloods [blood tests] . . . at the end of the day I was very happy with the science, I was very happy after working a long time in football, right, that there are periods of malaise which are possibly related to sub-clinical flus and sub-clinical colds, right, which can affect performance. When we want to be honest, Nick, how much performance data is there out there on Actovegin [calf's blood extract)]

NM: There's a lot, isn't there?

SD: No there's not! So, you know, you've got to extrapolate from the science.

NM: How often were Essendon players taking Thymosin Beta 4?

SD: [Explains the dosage level but asks that this be not published].

NM: ASADA has just released on its website that Thymosin Beta 4 is prohibited in all routes and out of competition.

SD: Well, that must have just only come in this year and I will get someone to speak to ASADA about that. That's just mind-blowing.

NM: Thymosin Beta 4, they must have just banned that.

SD: I think they've only just put that in to back up their case.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-science-of-stephen-dank-20130823-2shhd.html#ixzz34TfdkDLl

 

[The_Reaper]

This is precisely it - this is precisely what's going on here.

There is zero chance that ASADA has hard evidence of 34 footballers having been administered TB4.

They are hoping that one of them jumps up and says: yes, I did.

Why?

 

[jenny61_99]

Who ends up being right or not will depend on whether infraction notices ever see the light of day (which I think are unlikely in the extreme).

In the meantime, we have a flawed process, probably an illegal one, and the Essendon players are victims to a grave injustice.

As sung directly from the Essendon hymn book. We can see right through you BSE.

 

[Belnakor]

They are hoping that one of them jumps up and says: yes, I did.

you mean like a footballer might go on a football chat show and admit they took a banned drug?

Yes that would be strange.

 

[Pack Specialist]

Sorry if this has been asked, but if Watson is found guilty does he now have to give back the brownlow?

I actually don't want this to happen but it's basically the only way not to taint the award.

Lets be real though, Jobe was a champ before 2012, pre being deceived by James Hirds evil mind.

 

[Barkly St End]

its pretty useful when Dank can't give another source for the "good" TB

No, it's not evidence of TB4 having entered the blood stream of an individual footballer - the brief of evidence is directed at individual footballers, and it must be about that individual footballer having been administered a prohibited substance.

ASADA might have a suspicion that Dank procured TB4 from Charters and that he may have used it at the Essendong footy club - but that is not enough to prove a violation by an individual footballer.

 

[Barkly St End]

you mean like a footballer might go on a football chat show and admit they took a banned drug?

Yes that would be strange.

Yeh - except as I have been saying for 15 months now - AOD has been off the table since day one.

 

[DERIBERATE]

Hey guys I think BSE is right clearly there's no evidence that Essendon were given TB4. I mean there's certainly no public admission from Stephen Dank that he injected the whole list with TB4 or anything.

Oh wait, what's this?

It's worth noting that the intended therapeutic benefit sought - fighting immune system suppression - is consistent with the good kind of Thymosin, not TB4. This does support his defence that he simply got the name wrong.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

well, on the one hand you'll scream blue murder about bias of some journalists like Chip, but on the other you'll discount it out of hand with a wink about guys like Colbert?

Ok then

I'm not sure I've ever "screamed" or even posted about Chip, to be honest.

This list of people calling out drugs in sport in this country is minute in comparison to those feeding on the scraps of AFL accreditation, and who don't or won't ask the hard questions.

No idea who this DC guy is, but if he's not making excuses for Essendon or the process then he's a breath of fresh air.

 

[Belnakor]

It's worth noting that the intended therapeutic benefit sought - fighting immune system suppression - is consistent with the good kind of Thymosin, not TB4. This does support his defence that he simply got the name wrong.

even though he ordered specific TB4 from Charter?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Hey guys I think BSE is right clearly there's no evidence that Essendon were given TB4. I mean there's certainly no public admission from Stephen Dank that he injected the whole list with TB4 or anything.

Oh wait, what's this?

I love how the journo got as many mentions of Thymosin Beta 4 out there as possible before he dropped the "it's banned" bomb on him.

Elite journalism. Makes the "I meant Thymomodulin..." excuse absolutely weak.