Coaching Staff Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

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DERO said:
Pretty close apart from the bit about Joe putting himself before the team. That is not accurate.

According to Ant Daniher, Joe continued to play on and suffer in silence because he wanted to help the team. He struggled to train during pre-season so I reckon the fitness team would have had an inkling that something was up. Everyone had the best intentions.
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Exactly why relying on players to rule themselves out is so stupid. Of course players want to play. Daniher has been conditioned to "give 100% for the good of the team" for most of his life. He's always going to put his hand up, like 95% of footballers, because to say 'no' is seen as shirking his duties and responsibilities. Maybe, in the twilight of his career he'll gain an understanding; but to expect a 24 year old who's been told how important he is to team success for so long to understand this is just wrong, and it's a failure of the club that they don't recognise it.
 
mike14 said:
Exactly why relying on players to rule themselves out is so stupid. Of course players want to play. Daniher has been conditioned to "give 100% for the good of the team" for most of his life. He's always going to put his hand up, like 95% of footballers, because to say 'no' is seen as shirking his duties and responsibilities. Maybe, in the twilight of his career he'll gain an understanding; but to expect a 24 year old who's been told how important he is to team success for so long to understand this is just wrong, and it's a failure of the club that they don't recognise it.
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Every player is different I guess and there are different layers. Anyway, I am happy for people to form their own opinions. I don’t really have one but I thought it important to point out what actually happened.
 
mike14 said:
Exactly why relying on players to rule themselves out is so stupid. Of course players want to play. Daniher has been conditioned to "give 100% for the good of the team" for most of his life. He's always going to put his hand up, like 95% of footballers, because to say 'no' is seen as shirking his duties and responsibilities. Maybe, in the twilight of his career he'll gain an understanding; but to expect a 24 year old who's been told how important he is to team success for so long to understand this is just wrong, and it's a failure of the club that they don't recognise it.
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I'm sure if his leg fell off everyone and their dog would've known he wasn't able to play in those games. OP is not as obvious and the severity cannot be fully understood without consulting the person who is injured, because it is an inflammation of the pubic bone where the symptoms are pain and tenderness, not something that you can scan like a hamstring and immediately grade it and give it a recovery time. Evidently, the doc concluded it was mild based on the information he had at the time, and they decided playing Joe with what they thought was minor and manageable inflammation was the best option.

Playing through injury is ridiculously common, I'd guess probably a third to a half of players at all clubs are playing with some sort of injury that impacts their ability to play at 100% by this stage of the year, but there's always a couple. That is a fairly standard approach at all clubs.

When we had that short turn around after ANZAC day, the short recovery period probably showed it up more clearly to us as spectators that only see him on game day, but they persist with it likely thinking it's just the short recovery period that's interfering with him. A week later, he plays Hawthorn after a longer break, but it hasn't improved, isn't responding to the prescribed treatment plan. They put him on a month of rest and a few days later find out it's not minor at all, or if it ever was it certainly isn't now, and he's sidelined indefinitely.

Perhaps hindsight says he should've been dropped a week earlier, and it's especially hard knowing now that McKernan was a capable replacement, but that's hindsight again. If the choice is Joe with 'minor' inflammation playing at 80% or McKernan (2017 edition), I'd take Joe any day of the week, and evidently the selection committee thought so too. Thank goodness, I suppose, that the 2018 edition of McKernan was a capable replacement in the end.

I guess there's also the question of whether Joe understood how serious it could become if it wasn't treated on those early symptoms, and perhaps he just has a high pain tolerance and didn't think it was that bad until it was.
 

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DERO said:
Pretty close apart from the bit about Joe putting himself before the team. That is not accurate.

According to Ant Daniher, Joe continued to play on and suffer in silence because he wanted to help the team. He struggled to train during pre-season so I reckon the fitness team would have had an inkling that something was up. Everyone had the best intentions but it just did not work out.
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Hey yodellinhank there’s always next year pal! Ha ha.
 
DERO said:
Pretty close apart from the bit about Joe putting himself before the team. That is not accurate.

According to Ant Daniher, Joe continued to play on and suffer in silence because he wanted to help the team. He struggled to train during pre-season so I reckon the fitness team would have had an inkling that something was up. Everyone had the best intentions but it just did not work out.
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Except I would say it is putting yourself in front of the team. Maybe we go better in some of the earlier games if he puts his hand up.
 
mike14 said:
Which is fine, and it's where we differ. I'd prefer we have those in charge be able to take separate potential issues (form and/or injury in this case) and go "ok he's playing like shit but he needs to work through, and he may be injured but he can probably work through it...hmm, maybe one is impacting on the other and we should look into it prior to being a 3rd of the way through the season, especially with short turn around games".

The bolded raises an interesting point though; just what the hell does a 'fitness test' entail these days? Can only assume for JD it meant being able to get himself to the training venue on time...
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So you think it is just an Essendon issue ?
Seriously have a look at all clubs. They carry their top end players when maybe they should not. Even more so when they are under pressure to win. Has been happening for years.
 
So how do people see the assistant's for 2019 ?
Woosh with Harding + Pop seem to be certain but what of the Corrigan's Skipworth, Jordan and Harvs ?

One move we need to make is bring Caracella home.
 
naraku said:
So how do people see the assistant's for 2019 ?
Woosh with Harding + Pop seem to be certain but what of the Corrigan's Skipworth, Jordan and Harvs ?

One move we need to make is bring Caracella home.
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Pretty sure Caracella re-signed at Richmond for another 2 years but yeah all of Harvey,Skipworth,Corrigans need to go would try to get Bartel,McViegh
 
Lore said:
I'm sure if his leg fell off everyone and their dog would've known he wasn't able to play in those games. OP is not as obvious and the severity cannot be fully understood without consulting the person who is injured, because it is an inflammation of the pubic bone where the symptoms are pain and tenderness, not something that you can scan like a hamstring and immediately grade it and give it a recovery time. Evidently, the doc concluded it was mild based on the information he had at the time, and they decided playing Joe with what they thought was minor and manageable inflammation was the best option.

Playing through injury is ridiculously common, I'd guess probably a third to a half of players at all clubs are playing with some sort of injury that impacts their ability to play at 100% by this stage of the year, but there's always a couple. That is a fairly standard approach at all clubs.

When we had that short turn around after ANZAC day, the short recovery period probably showed it up more clearly to us as spectators that only see him on game day, but they persist with it likely thinking it's just the short recovery period that's interfering with him. A week later, he plays Hawthorn after a longer break, but it hasn't improved, isn't responding to the prescribed treatment plan. They put him on a month of rest and a few days later find out it's not minor at all, or if it ever was it certainly isn't now, and he's sidelined indefinitely.

Perhaps hindsight says he should've been dropped a week earlier, and it's especially hard knowing now that McKernan was a capable replacement, but that's hindsight again. If the choice is Joe with 'minor' inflammation playing at 80% or McKernan (2017 edition), I'd take Joe any day of the week, and evidently the selection committee thought so too. Thank goodness, I suppose, that the 2018 edition of McKernan was a capable replacement in the end.

I guess there's also the question of whether Joe understood how serious it could become if it wasn't treated on those early symptoms, and perhaps he just has a high pain tolerance and didn't think it was that bad until it was.
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Very sensible take on the situation. Lots of hysteria elsewhere here. People seem to be missing the point that even if Joe had stopped three weeks earlier he still would have missed the same chunk of football. OP is OP.
 
I suspect Worsfold has effectively moved to a director of football type of role (which is where he is best) after the shakeout earlier this year. Given that, selection of the assistant coaches is critical. if we have a full turnover in 2019 it is back to square one - and we risk having the dysfunctional, "it will take time", type of attitude we saw for the first 9 games. That said, we need a senior coach in the making among the assistant coaches so that someone is in a leadership position to step up either now or when Worsfold formally steps back. Strong central leadership in a coaching group is critical - if it is not Worsfold then who is doing the leading? We have a few senior players who are coming into their last years - are we going to have a coaching panel which gives these guys the leadership and chance for a premiership (Hurley, Hooker, etc)?
 
ant555 said:
So you think it is just an Essendon issue ?
Seriously have a look at all clubs. They carry their top end players when maybe they should not. Even more so when they are under pressure to win. Has been happening for years.
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Hell no, although I'd say we're comfortably in the bottom 3rd of the league for man management.
 
mike14 said:
Hell no, although I'd say we're comfortably in the bottom 3rd of the league for man management.
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Based on ? It is not like we have had a much worse injury run than a number of clubs. In fact there are several that have been hit with the injury stick much worse than we have.
 

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ant555 said:
Based on ? It is not like we have had a much worse injury run than a number of clubs. In fact there are several that have been hit with the injury stick much worse than we have.
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Based on the number of times in the last decade or so we've named blokes who had a 'niggle' and they couldn't get through the game, to then miss the next 3 or 4; based on the number of times we've been told it's a '1-2 week injury' only for it to turn in to a 6+ week one; based on the biggest **** up of the implementation and overview of a system that the sport has ever seen; based on conversations with a few players at a supporters function a few years back.

We have actually been pretty lucky with injuries compared to many, but that's completely different to man management and how we identify and deal with those injuries after they've occurred...
 
mike14 said:
Based on the number of times in the last decade or so we've named blokes who had a 'niggle' and they couldn't get through the game, to then miss the next 3 or 4; based on the number of times we've been told it's a '1-2 week injury' only for it to turn in to a 6+ week one; based on the biggest **** up of the implementation and overview of a system that the sport has ever seen; based on conversations with a few players at a supporters function a few years back.

We have actually been pretty lucky with injuries compared to many, but that's completely different to man management and how we identify and deal with those injuries after they've occurred...
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Think we are apart on this. We have always played some sort of stupid ducks and drakes game with announcing injuries but I do not feel we have been any worse than other clubs over the journey.
 
ant555 said:
Think we are apart on this. We have always played some sort of stupid ducks and drakes game with announcing injuries but I do not feel we have been any worse than other clubs over the journey.
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Yeah we obviously do.
To say that I've been less than impressed with our man management, going back to almost 2000, would be a massive understatement
 
yodellinhank said:
It isn't grinchy. We beat them by 10 goals last season. Our form interstate has been pretty decent in recent history.

Using the fact we were 14th (now why was that?) to pump it up is a good example of the constant lowering of the bar Worsfold receives from his admirers on here.
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Pretty good?

Prior to this year we hadn't won interstate since 2014 except for a couple of scratchy wins against Brisbane and the GC.
 
boncer34 said:
Pretty good?

Prior to this year we hadn't won interstate since 2014 except for a couple of scratchy wins against Brisbane and the GC.
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'15 and '16 are write offs. '14 we were 3-2 and '13 we went 4-1 with the loss the annual Sydney rip. It's a total lie to say Worsfold turned our interstate form around.
 
yodellinhank said:
'15 and '16 are write offs. '14 we were 3-2 and '13 we went 4-1 with the loss the annual Sydney rip. It's a total lie to say Worsfold turned our interstate form around.
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You can wriggle around all you like on this, but your own numbers show it's not a 'total lie' at all.
 
DapperJong said:
yodellinhank theres a perfectly shit MCG record for you to have a whinge about.
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Or our record against Victorian clubs in general this year. Only managed to beat Geelong, North and St Kilda. We can have all the interstate wins we want, but they're cancelled out if we can't beat our nearest and dearest.
 
Vindicater said:
Weird season.

If we beat Port we will end up with the same amount of wins as last year with a similar percentage despite having a harder draw and a lot more injuries.
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Even though we missed out on finals, i think we are leaps and bounds ahead of where we were this time last year.

Cant really take any of last years performance data as precedent due to being given a easy fixture based off 2016 anomaly year.

Same amount of wins this year is a huge tick given the difference in fixture difficulty of '17 vs '18.
 
NO NO NO, Don't be mislead, we bloody well failed. We lost games we should have won, and blew even more.
Coaching staff need to get rid of some dead wood, stop playing favorites and INJECT some young blood.
Not ready, bullshit, get em off training wheels and give em the keys to the bus.
 

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Coaching Staff Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

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