Coaching Staff Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

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The coach has to take some blame when team starts two years in a row looking unprepared. Coaching structure start of last season also contributed to our problems.

He’s struggled tactically. Yes yes don’t on our coach like others but here it’s deserved.

Throw the cheque book at Roos
 
Our players are talented but stupid. He is trying to teach them smart football, proper structures, accountability etc but with this bunch I don't think that will work. Just tell them to outscore their opponents and keep it pretty simple. We are never going to be an accountable well structured side with this cattle. I was concerned with Woosha's comments last week that nothing will change at training and players will approach the week the same as any other week because that is what high performing athletes do, irrespective of result. But these guys aren't athletes, they are footy players. They are a team. They need a reason to fight, they need to be motivated, they need to burn and want to try new things. I want it to work for Woosha, but sadly I don't think it's going to happen for him at Essendon. While he once again tries to instill hard lessons in this bunch, another season slips away. They'll finally get it later this year, win some big games, be the talk of summer and bang we will do it all again next year. Woosha would be great stepping into a team like Adelaide. But we are a unique beast. Hope I'm wrong...
 

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TheGreatBarryB said:
The coach has to take some blame when team starts two years in a row looking unprepared. Coaching structure start of last season also contributed to our problems.

He’s struggled tactically. Yes yes don’t on our coach like others but here it’s deserved.

Throw the cheque book at Roos
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Roos...

**** me dead.
 
Layden Javerde said:
Our players are talented but stupid. He is trying to teach them smart football, proper structures, accountability etc but with this bunch I don't think that will work. Just tell them to outscore their opponents and keep it pretty simple. We are never going to be an accountable well structured side with this cattle. I was concerned with Woosha's comments last week that nothing will change at training and players will approach the week the same as any other week because that is what high performing athletes do, irrespective of result. But these guys aren't athletes, they are footy players. They are a team. They need a reason to fight, they need to be motivated, they need to burn and want to try new things. I want it to work for Woosha, but sadly I don't think it's going to happen for him at Essendon. While he once again tries to instill hard lessons in this bunch, another season slips away. They'll finally get it later this year, win some big games, be the talk of summer and bang we will do it all again next year. Woosha would be great stepping into a team like Adelaide. But we are a unique beast. Hope I'm wrong...
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I'd get Coxy to tap it to one of Cuz, Judd or Kerr
 
Layden Javerde said:
Our players are talented but stupid. He is trying to teach them smart football, proper structures, accountability etc but with this bunch I don't think that will work. Just tell them to outscore their opponents and keep it pretty simple. We are never going to be an accountable well structured side with this cattle. I was concerned with Woosha's comments last week that nothing will change at training and players will approach the week the same as any other week because that is what high performing athletes do, irrespective of result. But these guys aren't athletes, they are footy players. They are a team. They need a reason to fight, they need to be motivated, they need to burn and want to try new things. I want it to work for Woosha, but sadly I don't think it's going to happen for him at Essendon. While he once again tries to instill hard lessons in this bunch, another season slips away. They'll finally get it later this year, win some big games, be the talk of summer and bang we will do it all again next year. Woosha would be great stepping into a team like Adelaide. But we are a unique beast. Hope I'm wrong...
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You're wrong.

You think Essendon just happen to have a bunch of players with lower IQ than every other club?
It's down to Worsfold to implement the right strategies and communicate them effectively to his players...it's not because the players are 'stupid'.

I'm 99.99% sure that Clarkson could get the exact same group of players playing with much better endeavour and system.
 
windyhill said:
About as well as anylse on this site. We’re all good at guessing and that’s my guess.
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My guess has always been that our job was too good for anyone wanting to be an AFL coach to refuse. A mature and reasonably talented list, that had draft picks commensurate to lower finishes that weren't a true reflection of the talent on hand.

I think he took Essendon as a safer job and a more long term bet than Adelaide. I think staying in footy means a lot to him, and I highly doubt he walks away without a decent shove to get him going.

But that's my take based on my own gut feel.
 
I've said it for multiple years, but are the players just stupid? It's hard to pin down whether it's an issue with the players being too dumb to play to the game plan or whether it's that the coaches are incompetent and don't know how to teach it to the players. I'm thinking it's probably a combination of both and that the tactics should be based around the players available rather than what the latest tactical trend is. The current assistants don't inspire much confidence, but that's impossible to judge from the outside.

Edit: That also doesn't excuse the game plan from being pure shit as well.
 
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Farktherest said:
You're wrong.

You think Essendon just happen to have a bunch of players with lower IQ than every other club?
It's down to Worsfold to implement the right strategies and communicate them effectively to his players...it's not because the players are 'stupid'.

I'm 99.99% sure that Clarkson could get the exact same group of players playing with much better endeavour and system.
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How is it that some players under 3 different coaches now have struggled to work out how to defend in a zone ?
 

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ant555 said:
How is it that some players under 3 different coaches now have struggled to work out how to defend in a zone ?
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So its a selection issue. Why do these players keep getting selected when they have proven for a period they continually fail.
These players I'm assuming include Zaharakis, Myers, Heppel, Hurley, Bellchambers, Hooker, Baguley, McKernan (and others)?

Woosha will tear shreds off these same players again.....but are these core players listening? Does Woosha know this? If yes why is he
part of a team selection committee that continually selects these same players who have played under 3 different coaches and still struggle with
a basic concept that is required in the modern game?

As loyal supporters of this club, this is where a lot of our frustrations originates from. The same mistakes get made year in year out. For all this progress that has been made (esp post saga) a lot of things have not changed at all.
 
ant555 said:
So playing no defence is good in your books ?
Is it Wooshas fault our blokes all rush into a contest all the time and leave the outside to uncontested? We lack basic footy craft and it is players from the pre Worsfold era along with some new guys playing midfield that are not natural to the position. The coach can not fix our inability to mark either. The only issue I think the coach has is it seems he can not sell the message and get the buy in. A big issue yes and it will cost him his job but he is not the only issue. The players have to be held accountable for lack of effort and pride in their own performance.
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Yes, every part of this is Worsfold's fault. Worsfold controls it all and he has a list of 44 players to use to to make the point but he ends up turning back to the same crap that we've been dealing with (some stretching back almost 10 years).

It seems to me that the idea that players have been doing the same thing under 3 coaches is not as much of an indictment of the players, you known, "leopards and spots", as it is an indictment of the third coach who continues to select these players.

I think we all assume that the new coach comes in and casts a critical eye over the team. However, there is little to no evidence that this is what happens unless you get to recent Carlton/Fremantle bottom out territory. Senior players literally select themselves.

This is why I think we get stuck with players like Baguley, Brown or Guelfi, who are hardly AFL standard, playing bit-part roles. It's the coaches way of pretending that he has influence over the team when, due to the circumstances, much of which he brings on himself, he really has none and he has to continue to select the same players.

Seriously, Myers, Bellchambers and Zaharakis should all be dropped. It is the clearly the most logical thing to do in this scenario. Anything else is meaningless window dressing that betrays all of the stupid cliches about "standing for things". It must be a grand thing to have the "inmates running the asylum" as long as you're one of the inmates and not some kid looking at the team from outside the 22 wondering what the **** is going on.

There are a few examples of coaches who have come in and looked at a list, Malcolm Blight at Adelaide, the start of Clarkson's tenure at Hawthorn when they sold their players for picks (Hawthorn and Clarkson is different to the other examples of bottoming out because the Hawks were competitive). Given how shit so many teams are, and the length of time over which they are shit, this sort of critical thinking clearly doesn't happen very often - probably because a coach is usually selling a vision, to satisfy an impatient board that a premiership is just around the corner, in order to get a job.

As aside, do you really need to have played midfield as a junior footballer to pick up running patterns that you learn when you play for a AFL side? We are talking about players who have been AFL midfielders for 5 to 7 years. It makes no sense to me.

The irony, of course, is that it's the supposed midfielders who are the worst offenders.

All of these players soak up all the game time and all the training time (which is a huge part of the problem) and they still can't do simply things expected of professional players. So nothing will ever change because any competitors will never be given the chance to prove that they could make a difference. Essendon team selection is a protectionist racquet.

I don't know how Worsfold has been sucked into something he had no part of but the legacy of ASAGA lives, the club has not looked critically at its football players, probably since the 90s.
 
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westking said:
So its a selection issue. Why do these players keep getting selected when they have proven for a period they continually fail.
These players I'm assuming include Zaharakis, Myers, Heppel, Hurley, Bellchambers, Hooker, Baguley, McKernan (and others)?

Woosha will tear shreds off these same players again.....but are these core players listening? Does Woosha know this? If yes why is he
part of a team selection committee that continually selects these same players who have played under 3 different coaches and still struggle with
a basic concept that is required in the modern game?

As loyal supporters of this club, this is where a lot of our frustrations originates from. The same mistakes get made year in year out. For all this progress that has been made (esp post saga) a lot of things have not changed at all.
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Your comments are a fair call and Merritt and Fantaisia are others in the group although Heppell Bagually and McKernan do try their hardest to play the role but for Heppell his pace can get him burnt and McKernan and Bagually are simply C grade players who try hard but make mistakes .
You are right with selection. No one will make the bold call on what are supposed to be the key players but it is not a problem that is only within our walls. In general coaches have an issue dropping the key players. Do not know why. BJ was a classic example the year Bomber coached. week in and week out he would tell the coach he would try harder at the team stuff and every week was the same on the field. It is a mystery.
 
BrunoV said:
Yes, every part of this is Worsfold's fault.

Do you really need to have played midfield as a junior footballer to pick up running patterns that you learn when you play for a AFL side? We are talking about players who have been AFL midfielders for 5 to 7 years. It makes no sense to me.

The irony, of course, is that it's the supposed midfielders who are the worst offenders.

All of these players soak up all the game time and all the training time (which is a huge part of the problem) and they still can't do simply things expected of professional players. So nothing will ever change because any competitors will never be given the chance to prove that they could make a difference. Essendon team selection is a protectionist racquet.

Worsfold controls it all and he has a list of 44 players to use to to make the point but he ends up turning back to the same crap that we've been dealing with (some stretching back almost 10 years). I don't know how he has been sucked into something he had no part of but the legacy of ASAGA lives, the club has not looked critically at its football players, probably since the 90s.
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Do not agree with at all as far as midfield goes. You either have the instinct or you do not and it is not running patterns I am talking specifically about although it can be hard to get players heads around them if it is not natural. The big issue for players trying to learn midfield is not rushing into the ball or a contest you can not effect. Sides with genuine midfielders do not have this issue. Their players know how to evaluate the situation instinctively and will sit on the 3m rim or 5m rim of a contest if the numbers inside are even where as we just charge in thinking we are doing the right thing and putting pressure on and that is how sides easily clear the ball. You can only evolve this in players who have that instinct.

So as far as selection goes the theory you put out is okay but we do have to have the players who can play the roles and our genuine midfielders are not under developed because we do not have them, particularly the inside ball winners. We have Clarke and despite all efforts his kicking is woeful and not up to AFL standard. Who do we have after that ? who has not been developed well enough ? Much is one who may have got more senior games but has also had some injury and health problems. Mynot may be okay but is a rookie who needed some time. Parish gets games. Laverde has been injured 3 or 4 times a year so has not been fit enough to play a lot of VFL midfield let alone senior midfield. Begly injured. There are no other midfield types who have not been given a go.

To be really blunt we have 4 midfielders who player all midfield as juniors ,Shiel , Much , Clarke and Mynot and three players who where flankers who can play a midfield role pretty well in Heppell , McGrath and Dev Smith. Zaharakis has always been a winger/ half forward which is why he is not effective in the middle.
It is a list problem the coach has been stuck with.

You are right in questioning selection as some players seem to get a free ride but even then the coach alone does not select the side and it is not an issue that is common to only Essendon. I still say the issue is Dodoro and his belief he can look smart turning flankers into midfielders.
 
In terms of team performance if you consider hypothetically all other factors being equal between clubs then I think performance improvements come down to the following:

1) the strategy - no matter how this is derived the senior coach wears responsibility for this.

2) implementation of strategy by the coaching group - head coach owns this as well.

3) player attitude / coachability - this means the players individual capacity to take new instruction and implement then accordingly. Bringing coachable players into the club is a recruiters responsibility.

Lack of coachability represents a very significant factor in new recruits failing in a workplace (Ive recently read that 26% of new hires fail for this attitudinal reason). Everyone on here who has been in management of any kind would most likely know what its like to work with someone who is uncoachable - it's a nightmare.

I think it's possible IF we have enough of this attitude amongst the senior playing group it could be an issue for any coach to implement new strategy.
Part of the issue with the problem attitudes is its most likely to be good players who are the offenders (that's why they are still at the club) and therefore more difficult to drop or clear from the club entirely. It takes strong management to do this.

If this is actually the issue then Worsfold has had plenty of time to work this out and now owns this playing group good or bad. If he's stuck with players with shit attitudes for short term wins then he will pay the price for those players soon and the next coach will have the same problem with them.
 
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ant555 said:
Do not agree with at all as far as midfield goes. You either have the instinct or you do not and it is not running patterns I am talking specifically about although it can be hard to get players heads around them if it is not natural. The big issue for players trying to learn midfield is not rushing into the ball or a contest you can not effect. Sides with genuine midfielders do not have this issue. Their players know how to evaluate the situation instinctively and will sit on the 3m rim or 5m rim of a contest if the numbers inside are even where as we just charge in thinking we are doing the right thing and putting pressure on and that is how sides easily clear the ball. You can only evolve this in players who have that instinct.

So as far as selection goes the theory you put out is okay but we do have to have the players who can play the roles and our genuine midfielders are not under developed because we do not have them, particularly the inside ball winners. We have Clarke and despite all efforts his kicking is woeful and not up to AFL standard. Who do we have after that ? who has not been developed well enough ? Much is one who may have got more senior games but has also had some injury and health problems. Mynot may be okay but is a rookie who needed some time. Parish gets games. Laverde has been injured 3 or 4 times a year so has not been fit enough to play a lot of VFL midfield let alone senior midfield. Begly injured. There are no other midfield types who have not been given a go.

To be really blunt we have 4 midfielders who player all midfield as juniors ,Shiel , Much , Clarke and Mynot and three players who where flankers who can play a midfield role pretty well in Heppell , McGrath and Dev Smith. Zaharakis has always been a winger/ half forward which is why he is not effective in the middle.
It is a list problem the coach has been stuck with.

You are right in questioning selection as some players seem to get a free ride but even then the coach alone does not select the side and it is not an issue that is common to only Essendon. I still say the issue is Dodoro and his belief he can look smart turning flankers into midfielders.
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Melbourne, at least against Port, was guilty of having too many players getting sucked into the contest and they're all mids of the highest quality.

I accept that it is better to have mids understand this aspect of the game having learned it as juniors, or for it to be instinctual, but what you're describing is also symptomatic of the collapse of a system and the sort of selfish football played when players lose the confidence to play roles.

What I see when I watch VFL matches is that we destroy the ball winning instincts of flankers by leaving them on flanks and wings too long.
 
We're Carlton 2.0, egocentric across the board, from the highest point of administration to the rather odd unbalanced playing stock individuals we've accumulated along the way because of it.


I can't help but think the club is a series of roadblocks lately (a rather long lately) for the innovative direction the club need to go and JW either doesn't have the pull or want to change it.
 
the PILL said:
We're Carlton 2.0, egocentric across the board, from the highest point of administration to the rather odd unbalanced playing stock individuals we've accumulated along the way because of it.


I can't help but think the club is a series of roadblocks lately (a rather long lately) for the innovative direction the club need to go and JW either doesn't have the pull or want to change it.
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I’d argue you are Carlton 2.0 from a few years ago.
 
BrunoV said:
Melbourne, at least against Port, was guilty of having too many players getting sucked into the contest and they're all mids of the highest quality.

I accept that it is better to have mids understand this aspect of the game having learned it as juniors, or for it to be instinctual, but what you're describing is also symptomatic of the collapse of a system and the sort of selfish football played when players lose the confidence to play roles.

What I see when I watch VFL matches is that we destroy the ball winning instincts of flankers by leaving them on flanks and wings too long.
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You are correct and I should have articulated the balance of midfielders a bit better when discussing it.

I think Melbournes issue is they are a little too heavy on inside ball winners who all want to be in the action scrapping for the ball. Jones , Viney , Oliver are all players who want to be in scrapping for the ball. Throw in players like Hibbert and Melksham around the contests who are both very much see ball get ball players and there is an issue at times.

This is where you need the balance. Collingwood had a bit of an issue a few seasons ago but it was the other way. Too many players wanting to play the outside role.
You need to have the balance right. Right now we have 1 A grade in/out midfielder, another gun mid who is struggling with form and a bunch of learners, misfits or not up to its trying to fill the rest of the spots.

You know what , we can keep having discussions about what we think needs to happen but the real basic is the players have to play with passion and heart. If they do that we are good enough to win games. At the end of the day the coach is the bloke who has to carry the can as far as that goes.
 
If I was appointed the new coach of Essendon I would flat up tell Zaka and TBC (at least) that they can either accept a trade or play VFL until their contract is up.

Zaharakis could probably net us a 3rd rounder but would be worth him going for the cap space alone.
 

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Coaching Staff Senior Coach: John Worsfold - Thank you John

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