Review Slow starting Cats come storming home to defeat Tigers by 30 points

[And_ROOS]

Without much thinking the two I would take out of that lot and Bont and Gawn

I have had to watch a fair bit more of the Bulldogs and Demons this season then I want to, but I can tell you now Bont is absolutely killing it this season and has probably only had 2 "good" games with the rest being either above average or match winner, he is kicking goals, providing assists, all over the field and having massive impact. Been a few games where he has either dragged them over the line or got them going when they start a bit shit. Easily

Bont won't win the Brownlow but he is putting together a season similar to his 2021 season where he ended up with 30 odd votes. What will hurt him is that there will be some games where Treloar takes votes off him because he had high possession games in big wins.

As for Gawn, he has been the best ruck all season and been super consistent. Constantly getting 20+ disposal games, dominating the hitouts and clearances, kicking a goal every other game, English has had a few games where he dropped off a bit, and Grundy has been consistently good but only dominates games here or there.

I actually think Petracca, JHF and Anderson are probably too high up the list, and Gulden probably too low.

 

[cats_09]

Love this club

 

[Warhorse]

He cant work on his lack of height and little can be done on strength.

He is basically a worse version of the version of menzel with a dodgy knee. His goals are comfortably lower, less disposals per game, less x factor and even his tackle count aint even better. And this is despite the fact menzel often had to take the second best defender while henry gets the 3rd and sometimes 4th best defender. Many of henrys goals are due to his opponents running off him. We sacked menzel who was playing better. I dont see how we persist with henry in this role unless he dramatically improves and I dont see how he does given his physical limitations.

He needs to find a tank and a different position.

He is a really dumb footballer and always runs to where the ball is not going or even worse running into the space of the key forwards.

There is talent there but can see why he continued to be dropped by Collingwood

 

[Hinkley29]

Just looking at Miers stats. We don’t want his little “form slump” to last too long. 12 possessions @ 25% effective and 6 turnovers. Last 2 weeks he has combined had 5 score involvements and 1 goal assist.

The two games before that he was more “gryan like!” So lets just hope it is a 2 week bug.

Maybe we can release him a little more up the ground given Dempsey seems to be more effective forward? Need Miers as the plus 1 around the contest

Opposition teams have been putting a lot of work into miers recently.

They have rightly identified that he is super important to our system, and we need to find a way to free him up (or for others to fill the role if he is getting heavy attention).

Cat and mouse

 

[Hinkley29]

If he doesnt have the tank to move up field then i think he is another ryan gamble (another player who had similar talents but less opportunities as ollie henry) and is done.

Let me repeat - he is 21 years old.

 

[Hinkley29]

He cant work on his lack of height and little can be done on strength.

He is basically a worse version of the version of menzel with a dodgy knee. His goals are comfortably lower, less disposals per game, less x factor and even his tackle count aint even better. And this is despite the fact menzel often had to take the second best defender while henry gets the 3rd and sometimes 4th best defender. Many of henrys goals are due to his opponents running off him. We sacked menzel who was playing better. I dont see how we persist with henry in this role unless he dramatically improves and I dont see how he does given his physical limitations.

He needs to find a tank and a different position.

What are his physical limitations?

How many 21 year old 189cm players have a huge tank? If he has the same issue at 25 that will limit his upside but until then who knows.

for him to reach his potential one of 2 things has to happen:
Door A - he develops a much better running capacity and becomes a very difficult roaming forward. Similar to Jezza current role OR
Door B - he gets much stronger and becomes more of a power forward who can also use his athleticism. Charlie curnow is the best case example of this.

Personally, I think door A is the more likely option, but I am very confident that one of these two scenarios will occur.

I repeat, he is 21 years old.

Comparing him to a washed up and broken Menzel who literally did nothing other than jag the odd goal through footy smarts is ridiculous and disingenuous.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Just on O Henry he is a hell of alot better than Ryan Gamble

Ryan Gamble

Age

37

Ht

184cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.6

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

1.0

4star

, but he is not as talented as Menzel no way

What did Menzel kick in his comeback game after a couple of years out , i think it was 6 goals and it was against Coll - and Geel got belted

 

[Mr Meow]

Just on O Henry he is a hell of alot better than Ryan Gamble , but he is not as talented as Menzel no way

What did Menzel kick in his comeback game after a couple of years out , i think it was 6 goals and it was against Coll - and Geel got belted

Menzel would've had a Stevie J level career or even better if the injuries didn't occur.

O.Henry's ceiling is below that but he could easily be a Fritsch/Gunston type third tall. Forwards can take a while to develop.

 

[Hinkley29]

Just on O Henry he is a hell of alot better than Ryan Gamble , but he is not as talented as Menzel no way

What did Menzel kick in his comeback game after a couple of years out , i think it was 6 goals and it was against Coll - and Geel got belted

Durability is a talent - and ollie Henry is far more durable than Menzel ever was.

the most important ability is availability

 

[allrighty]

I have had to watch a fair bit more of the Bulldogs and Demons this season then I want to, but I can tell you now Bont is absolutely killing it this season and has probably only had 2 "good" games with the rest being either above average or match winner, he is kicking goals, providing assists, all over the field and having massive impact. Been a few games where he has either dragged them over the line or got them going when they start a bit shit. Easily

Bont won't win the Brownlow but he is putting together a season similar to his 2021 season where he ended up with 30 odd votes. What will hurt him is that there will be some games where Treloar takes votes off him because he had high possession games in big wins.

As for Gawn, he has been the best ruck all season and been super consistent. Constantly getting 20+ disposal games, dominating the hitouts and clearances, kicking a goal every other game, English has had a few games where he dropped off a bit, and Grundy has been consistently good but only dominates games here or there.

I actually think Petracca, JHF and Anderson are probably too high up the list, and Gulden probably too low.

Great analysis.

 

[allrighty]

Speak for yourself! I wasn’t around then - my childhood was the 90s - but I think we romanticise the past a bit.

I do miss the free-flowing stupidity and naivety of old fashioned shootout footy, but I don’t miss the lower skill level, I don’t miss standing room as a short bloke, and I don’t miss the big hits now we know a bit more about brain trauma.

60's - 90's all pretty good. I think the interwebs has changed the world immensely and it's not always for the good.

 

[iameviljez]

Just on O Henry he is a hell of alot better than Ryan Gamble , but he is not as talented as Menzel no way

What did Menzel kick in his comeback game after a couple of years out , i think it was 6 goals and it was against Coll - and Geel got belted

Menzel is a ridiculous high bar for talent, though. I have only seen three more talented players at the club - two of them have the same name, and the other one has a Brownlow and a Gary Ayres medal.

Ps - it was four.

 

[Seeds]

What are his physical limitations?

How many 21 year old 189cm players have a huge tank? If he has the same issue at 25 that will limit his upside but until then who knows.

for him to reach his potential one of 2 things has to happen:
Door A - he develops a much better running capacity and becomes a very difficult roaming forward. Similar to Jezza current role OR
Door B - he gets much stronger and becomes more of a power forward who can also use his athleticism. Charlie curnow is the best case example of this.

Personally, I think door A is the more likely option, but I am very confident that one of these two scenarios will occur.

I repeat, he is 21 years old.

Comparing him to a washed up and broken Menzel who literally did nothing other than jag the odd goal through footy smarts is ridiculous and disingenuous.

His tank is something i hope he can improve. I wasnt refering to that when i I said he was limited. Jezzas basically a wing/half foward these days. Thats a role henry could potentially excell at. I would like to see him played thereand if his tank isnt ready yet then he needs to get working on it during the pre season.

Its B where he is limited. Just doesnt have the body shape/size/strength. Working out in the gym can only help so much and probably inhibits his leaping as well.

 

[Lana]

Without much thinking the two I would take out of that lot and Bont and Gawn

Schoolyard rules who would you leave to the end

 

[Hinkley29]

His tank is something i hope he can improve. I wasnt refering to that when i I said he was limited. Jezzas basically a wing/half foward these days. Thats a role henry could potentially excell at. I would like to see him played thereand if his tank isnt ready yet then he needs to get working on it during the pre season.

Its B where he is limited. Just doesnt have the body shape/size/strength. Working out in the gym can only help so much and probably inhibits his leaping as well.

Jack Henry is very strong for his size, and he certainly wasn’t a beast at age 21.

We have no idea yet what o Henry will become.

 

[Warhorse]

What are his physical limitations?

How many 21 year old 189cm players have a huge tank? If he has the same issue at 25 that will limit his upside but until then who knows.

for him to reach his potential one of 2 things has to happen:
Door A - he develops a much better running capacity and becomes a very difficult roaming forward. Similar to Jezza current role OR
Door B - he gets much stronger and becomes more of a power forward who can also use his athleticism. Charlie curnow is the best case example of this.

Personally, I think door A is the more likely option, but I am very confident that one of these two scenarios will occur.

I repeat, he is 21 years old.

Comparing him to a washed up and broken Menzel who literally did nothing other than jag the odd goal through footy smarts is ridiculous and disingenuous.

Doesn't have the football smarts for A and is to short for B. Maybe a backline player as he can follow someone else to the ball

 

[Hinkley29]

Durability is a talent - and ollie Henry is far more durable than Menzel ever was.

the most important ability is availability

I have noticed a few disagreements on this post - which is good, we don’t need this place to be all agreement all the time, how boring would that be.

But Goggin Our Best and Warhorse i am interested in what it is that you disagree with. Do you not believe that durability is a skill? And do you not think that a player can be criticised for a lack of durability?

IMHO durability is something you are born with, like pace, a propensity for stamina, jumping ability, commitment/dedication, hand eye coordination, spatial awareness, etc.

We are allowed to criticise George horlin smith and Charlie constable for being too slow.

We are allowed to criticise Jordan Murdoch for a lack of awareness.

We are allowed to criticise Jake stringer for a perceived lack of dedication and commitment.

But heaven forbid anyone criticise Menzel, or paddy McCartin, or (one for the oldies) Paul lynch for having a lack of durability.

But I hear you say “those guys were just unlucky, injuries are just random luck”. They really aren’t random luck - their bodies were not built to withstand the rigours of professional footy. Menzel was born with knees that were not able to hold up. Paddy mccartin was born with a susceptibility to concussions. Paul lynch was born with hamstrings made of spaghetti.

In just the same way GHS’s body was not built to go fast, Jordan Murdoch was not blessed with a great footy brain, Jake stringer was not born with great drive and dedication to succeed.

IMHO it is really no different. But of course I would like to hear your takes on this Goggin Our Best and Warhorse.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Schoolyard rules who would you leave to the end

Treloar and I don't think it's even a difficult decision.

 

[AlcoaCat]

Menzel is a ridiculous high bar for talent, though. I have only seen three more talented players at the club - two of them have the same name, and the other one has a Brownlow and a Gary Ayres medal.

Ps - it was four.

It was four, terrible game in dreary conditions, enlivened only by Menz taking a a tongue-out semi speccy.

Of all the players I wish had had a fair crack, it was Menzel. Outrageously, ridiculously talented.

 

[And_ROOS]

It was four, terrible game in dreary conditions, enlivened only by Menz taking a a tongue-out semi speccy.

Of all the players I wish had had a fair crack, it was Menzel. Outrageously, ridiculously talented.

I actually thought a fight, non-****ed knee Menzel had a higher ceiling than Stevie J, so I agree with you if we got a full career from a fully fit Menzel we probably win the flag in 2013 and do better in 2012 and 2014.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

He cant work on his lack of height and little can be done on strength.

He is basically a worse version of the version of menzel with a dodgy knee. His goals are comfortably lower, less disposals per game, less x factor and even his tackle count aint even better. And this is despite the fact menzel often had to take the second best defender while henry gets the 3rd and sometimes 4th best defender. Many of henrys goals are due to his opponents running off him. We sacked menzel who was playing better. I dont see how we persist with henry in this role unless he dramatically improves and I dont see how he does given his physical limitations.

He needs to find a tank and a different position.

Alot of this is valid criticism, but in fairness, he is only 21yo and has already shown he can kick 40 goals in a year.

Athletically he is gifted, has good agility, reach, fantastic mark, very good speed...

I had similar criticism of him and still do, that he lacks endurance and the ability to pressure around the ball carrier and contests, offers zero in terms of linking up from defence to forward fifty, and tries to essentially play as an undersized key forward.

He seems to be caught out in no mans land a bit with his style of play that he has very little bows to his string if he isnt marking and kicking goals, what is he offering?? I think nothing.

Huge potential and only 21yo, but he needs to reinvent himself over the pre season and learn alot more to add to his game, especially in teansition and defence

 

[allrighty]

Schoolyard rules who would you leave to the end

Tough question. Treloar and Merrett

 

[allrighty]

Tough question. Treloar and Merrett

How about you Lana

 

[Generalissimo]

But I hear you say “those guys were just unlucky, injuries are just random luck”. They really aren’t random luck - their bodies were not built to withstand the rigours of professional footy. Menzel was born with knees that were not able to hold up. Paddy mccartin was born with a susceptibility to concussions. Paul lynch was born with hamstrings made of spaghetti.

It depends. I don't think what happened to Matthew Egan or Jason Snell was anything other than sheer bad luck.

 

[Lana]

How about you Lana

Ignoring the bottom few, I'd say Rowell