So... a guy got beheaded in front of my office today

[JoondalupJ]

Literally 50 meters up the road from where I work. Was outside having a smoke when it all went down.

Poor bastard was ran over, decapitated, and then dragged in the middle of the road by these two blokes.

Two blokes who then waited 20 minutes for the police to arrive asking us all to take pictures and film them. When the police did get there, the cops promptly shot both of them.

Two PC's waiting near the scene couldnt do anything as the perps had knives (one had the biggest cleaver I have ever seen) and one had a handgun (for some bizzare reason British police arent armed). They had to call in the armed response unit to deal with it. By which time the poor bastard they targetted was cactus.

Looks like a religiously/ politically motivated 'terror' attack. The killers appear to have targetted a soldier from the local barracks, and were chanting while cutting this poor guys head off. Dragged him into the middle of the road and then calmly waited 20 minutes for the police to arrive, before charging a squad of heavily armed coppers.

Odd day.

Cameron has called a COBRA meeting about it. Anti terror type stuff. Intresting.

That poor bastard. Pity the cops didnt fire more rounds.

I,m glad the cops didn't kill them. Now they can live in misery for ever and die alone , wondering what the bullshit was about, and where are the virgins. Old decrepit babling fools , bit of luck they'll make 90 years inside and just on their last breath a warder can say , hey you peice of rubbish, it was all bulldust.
Poor sick weak brained people, brainwashed into believing everyone else is to blame, by cowards under some notion of a religion.Ask your club president what he reckons.

 

[Jetwa5h]

Na make them share a cell with a 6ft6 neo Nazi skinhead

 

[JoondalupJ]

Don't know what else to say other than this is completely f@#*^d.

And we, as a species, have the nerve to think that we are highly evolved.

Well some of us are, anyway what the hell is the "west", I live in a western country
I don't run around butchering muslims for good old Jesus Christ .

Last big bombing I heard about was perpetrated by islamic (or so they thought they were) terrorists .
I think they killed nearly three thousand people. Their bombs were planes.

Fancy going to all that trouble and violence and killing people who had nothing to do with whatever they were angry about, I guess the first Iraq war was their reason , Osama was really pissed about American infidels on his country turf , and wanted to kill Saddam himself anyway , isn't that bloody weird.

The terrorist war is political. This religion is used to engage half brains that aren't too well off.
Have a chip on their shoulder and can be persuaded to do things for absolute nonsense.

The killers of that soldier I guess really just make a point for some coward sitting safely a long way off
allowing that coward to just quietly say , well you lousy westerners we're still here and we'll kill you every now again.

So how do they get people to do something for nothing.
Religious fanaticism and brainwashing. But the killers would have to be so frigging stupid to believe so strongly to some scumbag send you off with a mindset to just go kill some westerner.

I'd like to change my idea of a horrible long life in prison for these half brains, maybe just put them down . They were not worth the trouble their poor families had bringing them into the world.

Now every really high up or medium powered or just the local islamic cleric better get out into the public in our western country and every other western country where they choose to live , why I don't know if they hate so bad. But all these clerics better be screaming from the top of their voices ,We didn't preach islam to idiots so they would run around murdering for stupid reasons.
Start telling their young people this is politics Allah doesn't want you butchering people.

Or we begin the long long journey of political change that sees this religion removed from our shores .

If it breeds one butcherer like those two bastards in London , then i]we can't ban it but surely we can keep the followers out and let them live in Muslim Countries. I know its not that simple , or do ngo helter skelter, or maybe build a carpark. Is that what this crap is going to create.
Because I'll tell you what if Israel or the USA ever get their backs to a wall they will obliterate everything.

Of course Israel should never have been allowed to take over Palestine. That's been the foundation of all the troubles in the world since the late forties, that and the fact that Islam has two major groups that hate each other equally. This killing was the death of one poor bloke , but it was a filthy crime any wonder the warmongers of the west get elected , we're all frightened of this crazyness , and when animals get frightened they attack.
Cop the EDL in England. What do people expect. But what can you expect from humans . I give up.

 

[whiteoak]

I don't want the clerics and the imam's in Western countries talking publicly about anything.

I just wish they'd STFU.

The same way as I wish every Bishop, Cardinal, Priest, Minister and Rabbi etc would do the same.

 

[evo]

A pretty decent essay:


In the aftermath of the Boston Marathon bombings and the foiled al Qaeda-backed plot in Toronto, the "anything but jihad" brigade is out in full force again. If the perpetrators of such attacks say they were influenced by politics, nationalism, money, video games or hip-hop, we take their answers at face value. But when they repeatedly and consistently cite their religious beliefs as their central motivation, we back off, stroke our chins and suspect that there has to be something deeper at play, a "root cause."
The taboo against criticizing religion is still so astonishingly pervasive that centuries of hard lessons haven't yet opened our eyes to what has been apparent all along: It is often religion itself, not the "distortion," "hijacking," "misrepresentation" or "politicization" of religion, that is the root cause.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a...-of-islamophobia_b_3159286.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

 

[LouisCK]

I think one of the most interesting aspects of this whole issue is how the perpetrators are primarily Sunni muslims. I can't recall an attack by Shia muslims against the West (outside of Hesbollah vs Israel, and even then its mostly defensive action), yet our leaders and media are big supporters of hardline Sunni muslim states, and demonise the largely impoverished Shia.

Iran, Syria, Hesbollah etc. are, in reality, the ones actually taking the fight to the Sunni extremists who attack Western civilians. So why aren't our leaders able to do the same, or at least, leave the Shia alone to defend the lives of Western civilians?

 

[rayven]

Iran, Syria, Hesbollah etc. are, in reality, the ones actually taking the fight to the Sunni extremists who attack Western civilians. So why aren't our leaders able to do the same, or at least, leave the Shia alone to defend the lives of Western civilians?

 

[LouisCK]

Can't see youtube from work, what's the gist?

 

[DeanoT]

Can't see youtube from work, what's the gist?

Which Stalinist regime do you work for?

 

[rayven]

Can't see youtube from work, what's the gist?

Eisenhower speaks of the wars between 1860-1960 and where the american arms industry was at start of all that (no arms industry) compared to the end (3 and a half million employees). Every american town in some way has seen economic prosperity as result of the huge arms industry. That industry has massive influence and what he calls misplaced power. That arms industry must be carefully monitored so it doesn't try and keep itself relevant. Only alert and knowledgeable citizens can do that.

And my point to your question is, some people don't want peace.

 

[cancat]

A pretty decent essay:


In the aftermath of the Boston Marathon bombings and the foiled al Qaeda-backed plot in Toronto, the "anything but jihad" brigade is out in full force again. If the perpetrators of such attacks say they were influenced by politics, nationalism, money, video games or hip-hop, we take their answers at face value. But when they repeatedly and consistently cite their religious beliefs as their central motivation, we back off, stroke our chins and suspect that there has to be something deeper at play, a "root cause."
The taboo against criticizing religion is still so astonishingly pervasive that centuries of hard lessons haven't yet opened our eyes to what has been apparent all along: It is often religion itself, not the "distortion," "hijacking," "misrepresentation" or "politicization" of religion, that is the root cause.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a...-of-islamophobia_b_3159286.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

He makes a few good points. However...

I think he misses the bigger picture in that not all terrorists use religion to justify their actions. Religion is the just the most popular method of justification due to their "holy" books providing a source of apparent moral certainty. Governments also use religion to justify their actions when it suits them.

Thomas Jefferson was a keen student of Islam, even teaching himself Arabic to further his reading. He recognised that the Barbary Pirates were using a literal interpretation of the Qu'ran to justify their actions. Modern Islamic extremists do the same. As also do critics of Islam such as the author of this essay. Whereas most authorities on Islamic law would say that while the Qur'an is the supreme source of law for Muslims there are extra-Qur'anic sources that need to be considered. This phenomenon is not exclusive to Islam.

So I disagree with the author's main point. It's not religion per se that is the problem. It is the interpretation which matters. The root causes of both terrorism and religion is human nature.

 

[blackcat]

A pretty decent essay:

religious text as cipher for human nature. does not have to be the locke version, because it only requires kings/heads of state/prophets, to take their constituents along with them. those heads are rarely if ever touched by their own hubris ramifications. that Text in quran koran is a problem (no doubt, ok, you've talked me 'round). but what about the defer(ing) to text and surrendering (external locus of control). it does not take an excuse for the US to go on foreign adventurism. nature of power, only type A personalities and sociopathic types rise to achieve rule.
this guy would have been a gang banger in compton.
if you see the video, watch him walking. he does this strut that a hip hop, or gang banger, or a mixedmartialarts fighter entering the ring. NOT NORMAL. even male models do not walk like that on catwalks

 

[blackcat]

So I disagree with the author's main point. It's not religion per se that is the problem. It is the interpretation which matters. The root causes of both terrorism and religion is human nature.

text as justification? or
used as cipher? tells me to slaughter infidels, i slaughter infidels, because this is my innate disposition

 

[blackcat]

So I disagree with the author's main point. It's not religion per se that is the problem. It is the interpretation which matters. The root causes of both terrorism and religion is human nature.

did not make it down to your last para^

i agree

 

[cancat]

text as justification? or
used as cipher? tells me to slaughter infidels, i slaughter infidels, because this is my innate disposition

Slaughtering infidels is usually associated with a political or economic agenda - which derives from the predisposition. The Barbary pirates didn't demand ransoms of honkies because the text told them to. The Ottomans let them get on with as long as they "did it for Islam" (bro).

 

[cancat]

did not make it down to your last para^

i agree

And we can't escape our humanity

tldr;

 

[blackcat]

Slaughtering infidels is usually associated with a political or economic agenda - which derives from the predisposition. The Barbary pirates didn't demand ransoms of honkies because the text told them to. The Ottomans let them get on with as long as they "did it for Islam" (bro).

but it is the heads of state and powerful who have set/determined this agenda.

never the gang banger on the streets of Compton

 

[blackcat]

oh, and the IPA. them too. cant forget Chris Berg.

 

[evo]

So I disagree with the author's main point. It's not religion per se that is the problem. It is the interpretation which matters. The root causes of both terrorism and religion is human nature.

Ultimately the interpretation IS the religion. Despite claims to the contrary religion isn't a thing-in-itself. Religion and the associated texts are only as good or bad as the person reading it.

One has to ask them self what "religion per se" actually means.

 

[blackcat]

Religion and the associated texts are only as good or bad as the person reading it.

srs question. struggling with this in reference to your rhetoric below. i, in layperson intuition, seem you are putting the individual front and centre. (agree with this). then they become a bloc with the text, religious tome

One has to ask them self what "religion per se" actually means.

good question. meta level, means surrending to dogma? external locus of control. deferring ones agency to scripture. that seems like a dichotomy/oxymoron, your agency, becomes historical script. even if it (scripture) becomes malleable in its interpretation.

oxymoronic
(generic. not reply to evo, reply to worshipers.)

 

[blackcat]

And we can't escape our humanity

tldr;

re: Barbary Pirates. interesting piece of trivia. The first suicide bombing was not a tamil in Tamil Elan in Ceylon after he had brewed a chai.

no, first was the US Navy, when they set sail of one ot their boats into a Barbary Port packed with explosives and gun powder and just one sailor.

first suicide bombing = US Navy. Before japanase kamikaze pilots and tamils.

 

[blackcat]

tamil eelam correction

correction, not interesting piece of trivia
banal trivia

 

[Qsaint]

re: Barbary Pirates. interesting piece of trivia. The first suicide bombing was not a tamil in Tamil Elan in Ceylon after he had brewed a chai.

no, first was the US Navy, when they set sail of one ot their boats into a Barbary Port packed with explosives and gun powder and just one sailor.

first suicide bombing = US Navy. Before japanase kamikaze pilots and tamils.

Drake used fireships against the Spanish and someone had a crack at Alexander the Great with a boat packed with oil

 

[blackcat]

re: sailor/sailing it in suicide mode Q? not original in war strategy re fire ships. self immolation and asymmetric warfare?

 

[djrossie16]

First suicide bomber