Religion So God isnt really all-powerful?

[Malifice]

Yes you do. You know that the god described in the Bible doesn't exist.

No I dont.

For all I know, the Christian God may very well be literally true.

As may Thor, Odin and Loki, and we are all heading to Ragnarok.

Or the Scientologists.

Or no-one.

As for an 'actual' god, that's something else, and I agree about the agnostic thing. So why create a thread about it?

Its a forum dedicated to (Society, Politics and) Religion, and Im always curious to hear how people justify the belief in the existence (or non existence) or a God or Gods.

In this particular scenario, I wanted someone to explain to me why a being who is all powerfull appeared limited in power in creating the universe.

Maybe Lucifer was right after all.

So far we have had:

a) Literallists. (Six days, 6000 years ago).
b) Those who claim to know the will of God, and say he slowed down and rested 'for a reason' (this would get you in trouble with the Inquisition by the way)
c) The one day = one million years argument.

Biblical interpretation is amusing.

 

[Malifice]

A Spinozan God is perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately very few theists believes in that type of God.

What exactly is a Spinozan God?

Im currently searching for a logical or rational explanation for the existence of God and cant find one.

Cartesian doubt didnt help.

I couldnt get past the doubt.

 

[Chief]

God doesn't do things without a reason.

Again with the confident expression of absolute knowledge of God. What if he DOES do things without a reason, but he just hides it really well (he is all powerful, you know) to avoid getting caught out being thoughtless on occasion?

I think the main point for an atheist is that, for an all-powerful being, god does a damn good job of making it look like he doesn't even exist.

 

[The rabbi]

Why the six days?

Why not just do it in a picosecond, or in no time at all?

I really think that the creation event placed in 6 days is a literary device driven by Israelite Sabbath theology as has been mentioned by others. Covenant theology were their concerns in writing the text.

 

[BarneyBent]

God created all this shit despite not existing. That's some power!

 

[evo]

What exactly is a Spinozan God?

Spinoza's metaphysics consists of one thing, substance, and its modifications (modes). Early in The Ethics Spinoza argues that there is only one substance, which is absolutely infinite, self-caused, and eternal. He calls this substance "God", or "Nature". In fact, he takes these two terms to be synonymous (in the Latin the phrase he uses is "Deus sive Natura"). For Spinoza the whole of the natural universe is made of one substance, God, or, what's the same, Nature, and its modifications (modes).
“ It cannot be overemphasized how the rest of Spinoza's philosophy—his philosophy of mind, his epistemology, his psychology, his moral philosophy, his political philosophy, and his philosophy of religion—flows more or less directly from the metaphysical underpinnings in Part I of the Ethics.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Spinoza#Metaphysics

Im currently searching for a logical or rational explanation for the existence of God and cant find one.
.

Read the first chapter. Unlike Kant and many other philosophers of the enlightenment, he is eminently readable

http://frank.mtsu.edu/~rbombard/RB/Spinoza/ethica-front.html

 

[theGimp]

A Spinozan God is perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately very few theists believes in that type of God.

Impossible to prove existence by appearing on a piece of toast?

 

[evo]

Impossible to prove existence by appearing on a piece of toast?

Yes. The toast was inconclusive but I believe the following evidence to be incontrovertible.

Tell me this isn't the Lord!

 

[Contra Mundum]

Baruch Spinoza - The lens maker makes things more clear. [Also had top Johnny Platten hair]

 

[evo]

[Also had top Johnny Platten hair]

Jew-fro

 

[theGimp]

Clear evidence...
Reminds me of one of my fav jokes.

Did you hear about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac?
He lay awake all night wondering if there really was a dog.


An oldie but a goodie.

 

[evo]

Yeah. The picture works on a number of levels.

 

[Chief]

God created all this shit despite not existing. That's some power!

A better explanation exists: there is no god.

 

[Partridge]

Makes me wonder when the week was invented, and if it's based off of these supposed 7 days.

Or is it the other way round?

Excellent book around called "The Calendar" Podgey, by David Ewing Duncan. Highly recommend it. Answers all those questions.

 

[Partridge]

That probably has something to do with the fact that we took their land...

If it wasn't the British, it would have been the French or Dutch or another foreign power sailing past.

I respect that they are entitled to believe in their traditions, I still believe however that they are complete nonsense (as all religions are).

 

[Partridge]

Dawkins is an embarrassment to those who think deeply about these issues. A splendid self-publicist though.

Prompted by his publisher, I think he may have realised that nobody would bother to read his thoughts about his boring area of interest. Because of this, he has over-reached.

Totally disagree. He's a biologist first and foremost. I've read "The God Delusion" once and enjoyed it, but it really didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. I have however since read his scientific books many times, which are anything but boring.

 

[Partridge]

The Bible is known as the infallible word of God. That is that there is not anything in there that should not be true.

Quite seriously, do you therefore think it's ok to keep slaves? God does.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Totally disagree. He's a biologist first and foremost. I've read "The God Delusion" once and enjoyed it, but it really didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. I have however since read his scientific books many times, which are anything but boring.

He conflates the use of reason with scientific method - the two things are not the same

 

[skilts]

Totally disagree. He's a biologist first and foremost. I've read "The God Delusion" once and enjoyed it, but it really didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. I have however since read his scientific books many times, which are anything but boring.

I must admit that I find books on biology not at all interesting. I acknowledge there are those who do. It seems you're one of those. If you found 'The God Delusion' uninformative, I found it to be the ramblings of a man operating beyond his area of expertise, who dressed up his personal prejudices in a cloak of rationality, and mask of compassion for the victims of religion. It was a book written to sell books. It seems to have succeeded admirably. Good on him.

I'll take your word for his competence as a writer on matters biological. If I were to do otherwise, it would involve reading his work on this topic. Having endured his attempts at theology, I'd rather stick my head in a bucket of aardvark vomit.

 

[omit]

A) The universe is finite, then:
B) It logically follows that it went from a state of Nothing to... 'the Universe'
Then logically, the very fact that a universe (including the laws of nature) could spring from 'nothing' requires a supernatural (i.e. outside of nature) entity or force to happen.
Something 'natural' cant act in nothing and on nothing in no time to create or become on its own 'something'.
Conceptually it requires something outside of nature or the ability to comprehend to happen.
Ergo God exists. Unless the universe is infinte of course.
I just hope he is a nice guy.

you hypothesis hinges on the basis that what we feel is logical is somehow related to reality. This however is not the case, logic has an incredibly poor track record in helping our understanding of nature.

Logically:

The universe revolves around the earth
Aristotles laws of motion are correct
Parallel lines can't intersect
Maths is perfect

The universe is not very logical

 

[Monniehawk]

If it wasn't the British, it would have been the French or Dutch or another foreign power sailing past.

I respect that they are entitled to believe in their traditions, I still believe however that they are complete nonsense (as all religions are).

...if?

Complete?
Then you have either not read/heard them or you misunderstood them....

 

[sighclone]

A better explanation exists: there is no god.

Neither is their any dog, dgo, odg, ogd or number 42.

 

[Moti]

Quite seriously, do you therefore think it's ok to keep slaves? God does.

Does he really?

 

[Contra Mundum]

Does he really?

Paul in Galatians 3:28: There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[skilts]

Paul in Galatians 3:28: There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Unless you're a female who wants to be a priest, apparently.