Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[Elmer_Hauser]

North got rid of Rhys Shaw after 1.5 years and noble the same, and the still got Clarko, so I think that’s a bit of a myth you can’t attract anyone good.

Rhyce Shaq quit for Mental Health reasons.

They haven't exactly been travelling well since then either.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If he is to be replaced I'd rather Cook did most of the leg work, the board appointed panel last time hasn't got it done. Next cab off the assistant ranks, whether that's Gia, Caracella etc I don't know. See if Dimma wants the mentoring role.

If you believe Caro, Hardwick will be coaching Gold Coast next year

 

[Beyond Blue]

Personally I’m not keen on sacking another coach as it’s just repeating the cycles of past mistakes. The reality is the list isn’t that good so I’d like to see a clean out of all the guys we know aren’t good enough. On my last count as many as 15 players need to go so that’ll take 2 years.

Whatever happens I do not want anyone who has been involved appointing coaches over the last 10 years involved again and indeed those people should leave the club before Voss does, specifically Sayers and Lloyd. They have shown repeatedly they cannot make the right decision.

That all said if we lose the next 3 games it’s hard to see Voss surviving beyond that. Also Sayers has the PwC tax scandal hovering over him which could see him stand down shortly so his words about Voss being safe might not mean too much.

In that case I think it should ultimately come down to what Brian Cook thinks. Given his track record I’m happy to get behind whatever he decides including keeping Voss if that is his view. IMO the most obvious and best alternative is Don Pyke.

 

[The Fantom]

Everyone that now says the list any good, did you think that at the start of the year?

I left at half time, never done that in my life… it’s so obvious we are devoid of something.

There no passion, no soul.
Say what you want about executing skills… this coach is executing us.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Cook has his man from Geelong in the coaching group a 3 or is it for time premiership player for them. So he would have reliable feedback on Voss.
Cook also has experience in building a Club to a sustainable performance basis - he made it clear last year that the list was far from complete and unlike Sayers hasn't fed the flames of finals or bust nonsense - chook feed to sheeple.

It seems that I am one of the few who have never rated this list as a genuine contender - and even within the context of a fully available best set of players one can think of that are on the list - we have never seen them all on ground fit and firing together.

One thing I can say as a person new to this 'code' coming from a rugby background and enjoying the more analytical side of things - nothing has changed in the game of AFL except some rules around standing the mark/666 on top of a constant extending of the bench to make players able to run harder and after and longer because rotations that and a penchant for making the game ever more contact -free.

I say this after watching many games from the 70's and 80's and 90's as well as a fairly careful watch for the last 10 or so years in the so-called modern game - nothing has changed of real substance to game plan/strategy nothing.

SO all the comments about 'modern game' are too my eyes - way way off the mark.

What IS a differentiator in coaching and game plan is the use of the player strengths one has at onee's disposal- and that boils down to a lot of things - mainly numbers.

Instead of ignoring blokes who have a clue like Cook - who wasnt brought in to improve marketing and membership numbers why not have a listen and think.

"the list is far from complete" - even the coach = who now apparently is a bad coach has stated the same thing.

A glance at the pout of contract list of players of 2023 might shed some light on where the list is truly at.

Maybe having a look at what Voss has to work with in:

Fisher/LoB/Motlop/Durdin/Owies/Silvagni as pretend forwards might help.....
Perhaps thinking about the lack of qulaty KPD or ruck might help
if that doesn't why not consider the cumulative and compounding effect of Cuningham/Martin/Marchbank/McGovern/Wiliams always injured

or how about consider the lack of true depth in young midfielders pushing for selection in: Carroll/Philp always injured or not right...

I get the easy lazy entitled sentiment on here regarding if not finals then coach must be sacked - it is all I have read on here since 2012 - when I joined.

What will make me give up on Carlton isnt the reality of seeing through a fix of the list's weak points- it will be yet another sacking of a coach.

If Voss gets sacked - I am out of the Carlton supporter Club - gone. Enough is enough with Carlton expectations - what an arrogance- as if the other teams in teh competition are nothing to be concerned about and if the side is not good enough it means the coach isnt. Very few Clubs with any success or credibility have sacked coaches every 2 years like Carlton ahs a penchant for doing - in fact NONE.

Suck it up we are what we are - we arent what we arent.

Amen Brother

 

[Kruezing]

Let’s say Voss quits tomorrow, what gives anyone any confidence we won’t balls it up again?

Was it the current president after sacking Teague stated, we don’t want a coach on training whe
By doing this boxed ourselves in to a very small pool of coaches, the president who hired Voss was also on the board when we fired Ratten, hired/fired Malthouse, hired/fired Bolton and hired/fired Teague.

What would make the next search different?

On who would want to come coach? All of them, there is only 18 clubs in the country, with around one job vacancy each year.

Our list is very good, don’t be fooled

Cook has his man from Geelong in the coaching group a 3 or is it for time premiership player for them. So he would have reliable feedback on Voss.
Cook also has experience in building a Club to a sustainable performance basis - he made it clear last year that the list was far from complete and unlike Sayers hasn't fed the flames of finals or bust nonsense - chook feed to sheeple.

It seems that I am one of the few who have never rated this list as a genuine contender - and even within the context of a fully available best set of players one can think of that are on the list - we have never seen them all on ground fit and firing together.

One thing I can say as a person new to this 'code' coming from a rugby background and enjoying the more analytical side of things - nothing has changed in the game of AFL except some rules around standing the mark/666 on top of a constant extending of the bench to make players able to run harder and after and longer because rotations that and a penchant for making the game ever more contact -free.

I say this after watching many games from the 70's and 80's and 90's as well as a fairly careful watch for the last 10 or so years in the so-called modern game - nothing has changed of real substance to game plan/strategy nothing.

SO all the comments about 'modern game' are too my eyes - way way off the mark.

What IS a differentiator in coaching and game plan is the use of the player strengths one has at onee's disposal- and that boils down to a lot of things - mainly numbers.

Instead of ignoring blokes who have a clue like Cook - who wasnt brought in to improve marketing and membership numbers why not have a listen and think.

"the list is far from complete" - even the coach = who now apparently is a bad coach has stated the same thing.

A glance at the pout of contract list of players of 2023 might shed some light on where the list is truly at.

Maybe having a look at what Voss has to work with in:

Fisher/LoB/Motlop/Durdin/Owies/Silvagni as pretend forwards might help.....
Perhaps thinking about the lack of qulaty KPD or ruck might help
if that doesn't why not consider the cumulative and compounding effect of Cuningham/Martin/Marchbank/McGovern/Wiliams always injured

or how about consider the lack of true depth in young midfielders pushing for selection in: Carroll/Philp always injured or not right...

I get the easy lazy entitled sentiment on here regarding if not finals then coach must be sacked - it is all I have read on here since 2012 - when I joined.

What will make me give up on Carlton isnt the reality of seeing through a fix of the list's weak points- it will be yet another sacking of a coach.

If Voss gets sacked - I am out of the Carlton supporter Club - gone. Enough is enough with Carlton expectations - what an arrogance- as if the other teams in teh competition are nothing to be concerned about and if the side is not good enough it means the coach isnt. Very few Clubs with any success or credibility have sacked coaches every 2 years like Carlton ahs a penchant for doing - in fact NONE.

Suck it up we are what we are - we arent what we arent.

This is pretty much on the mark … the other main ingredients lacking is true on field leadership on more than one line … we lack foot speed … and we certainly lack a few hard nuts in my opinion

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I honestly believe our conditional playing group couldn't handle a stern disciplinarian coach like Don Pyke.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If the board and Cook decided we need a fresh start and fire Voss, I really wouldn't want another former senior coach ro replace him (most of whom would bring their own baggage)

I was keen for Adem Yze

Adem Yze

Age

46

Ht

187cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.2

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

1.8

2star

M

0.6

1star

T

0.6

3star

to replace Teague, and I still rate him highly.

But of course, my strong preference is for Vossy to stay on.

 

[Accidental genius]

I honestly believe our conditional playing group couldn't handle a stern disciplinarian coach like Don Pyke.

All the better. We get a good coach and the pea hearts can leave. Exactly what’s needed.

 

[I bleed Blue]

I personally don't think we'll go very far under Voss, but I also don't want him sacked (this year at least).

1. Sacking a coach every 2 years will break this club. A 5th head coach since 2015 would be terrible for the playing group.
2. Which coach of quality is actually available right now?
3. Even if someone good was available, why would they ever want to come to Carlton? A club with an overrated list, you would instantly be under significant pressure and a club culture of sacking coaches every 2 years.

We simply have to persevere with Voss.

I've read this alot of times since the coaching debate heated up.

Cant sack another coach because we've been through too many. It will look bad etc.


If you don't think he will take us very far why persevere?

Like staying in an unhappy relationship because you think it would look bad if you go through another break up.

 

[Styxx]

Bolton lasted about 77 games or so.
Teague lasted about 50.
If we pull the trigger and sack Voss it would be 44 games.

No club can just turnover the head coach and nothing else essentially at that rate and expect to be anything less than dog shit as a club. That's Richmond 1982-2010 levels of incompetence and we deserve to stay at the bottom if that's what we do.

If we are going to clear it out, everyone goes.

 

[BluStreak]

can we please stop sacking coaches after a season or two. They need at least 3-5 years so show their mettle.

 

[Blue By Blood]

I think at this point those who are defending him are only doing so out of not wanting to turn over another coach. I really doubt many are seeing anything in the way he coaches that suggests he’s going to be the guy to work for this list and this playing group.

SkyhorseTamer in the Voss thread showed that we have turned over roughly the same amount of coaches as other clubs. When you’ve got the wrong guy he needs to be replaced. We can’t be afraid of the backlash of admitting we made a mistake again and seeking to improve. A strong organisation puts its hand up and admits fault and looks to rectify it. You could easily argue we’ve fluffed each of our recent coaching appointments. Maybe just maybe our selection process needs to be revamped so that this time we get the right person.

As for a guy like Pyke, I think he’s the sort we should go after. Someone with real nous around ball movement and tactical ability. We may have player fallout as a result but that’s what we need. We need to get rid of the weeds to start something meaningful and we need to do it now. Tasmania is coming in. Those drafts will be compromised. We need to work out if we need to do a ‘mini rebuild’ or whether we think with a few personnel changes we can extract the potential of this list. Either way we can’t hold onto hope and waste another year. Action needs to be taken one way or another.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

That we have to keep going back to Fish, OBrien and Ed tell you where we are at.

Why was Binns overlooked?

He is a straight swap for Hollands and he can play HBF or HFF?

Fish? A conundrum. Took major steps forward in 2022, 7th in F & B. Looks pretty disinterested this year, echoes of his big buddy?

 

[windows1]

The references to Hardwick and the fact Richmond stuck with him need thought. If my memory is right he totally changed the game plan after that tumultuous period. Innovated with forward handball etc.

If my memory is right then to retain Voss because “it’s what Richmond did” would require Voss assures he will change the game plan. But to me he seems hell bent on implying that it’s the players’ lack of ability to adhere to the plan.

In fact I don’t feel like I’ve seen any trend from him other than increasing in his blame on the players. Language like “he will learn a lot about himself” makes me think he is thinking “THeY are learning a lot about themselevs.” He’s distancing himself. “I didn’t have this mentally weak problem. It’s on them.”

I would like a journo to ask him “Michael what are YOU doing wrong? Yourself. No one else. Just YOU”

 

[windows1]

Unfortunately, I think it is time for a refresh...

new senior coach...he then picks his own assistants

delist the perennially injured
delist the pea hearts/wont commit to contact (we all know who they are)

Let the new coach decide the fate of the remaining players and reshape the list moving forwards.

Are you referring to the bloke who drops the most basic of marks every ****en week?

 

[Blue and Blue]

can we please stop sacking coaches after a season or two. They need at least 3-5 years so show their mettle.

In one sense I agree, but if we look back in time the ones that won flags did it pretty quick

Barassi 4 years, but after a long period of mediocre carlton and needed time
Nicholls 1st year
Jesaulenko 2nd year
Parkin 1st year
Walls 2nd year

 

[Blue1980]

I've read this alot of times since the coaching debate heated up.

Cant sack another coach because we've been through too many. It will look bad etc.


If you don't think he will take us very far why persevere?

Like staying in an unhappy relationship because you think it would look bad if you go through another break up.

Be someone who has been through a couple of divorces sticking out the 3rd marriage even if it’s as crap or worse than the previous 2

 

[Broadside]

A lot should depend on how/ what Voss presented to the coach selection committee. If he said he could achieve success fast with this list, that is how he should be judged.

If he said the list has many holes and isn’t close, and he needs say 4 years that is what he should get, within reason. Going backwards again next year is unacceptable given the maturity of our list.

If we stick with him clearly he needs better support around him.

We are in a pickle.

 

[Accidental genius]

Are you referring to the bloke who drops the most basic of marks every *en week?

You don’t think panic is causing that? For example guv is/was one of our most reliable marks.

 

[Santo the king]

In the past we sack first and look later only to find that there's not a great deal of options for us. Leppitsch would be the the ideal choice but again head coach is not really the problem and never has been with us. It's the football department as a whole and our sack coach mentality is the source of all our problems.

Voss has a lot of good qualities, but like all people he doesn't bring a full range of good qualities to the table and enough to do it all on his own.

I'd like to think that Voss is someone we can help improve and someone we can make a success of. That's the path we need to go down. I don't think sacking him is an option unless he's got real problems. I think sacking him compounds our big problem. The elephant in the room is and always has been our reputation.

Love the part about carlton helping Voss to improve. Thats what good organisation do and that sums up the challenge for the club. I have my doubts.

 

[Korn]

I think Voss will get the best out of us. He just needs time to make it happen.

You give time when you have a young rebuilding list, or a young inexperienced rookie coach.

We have an experienced list and Voss is an experienced coach.

So why does he need more time?

The fact that we are going backwards with this list is alarming.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I'm starting to think the mistake Sayers made after the appointment of Voss was saying "We expect to play finals next year".
Don't get me wrong, we all expect or aspire to play and win finals but the reality is we are showing we aren't there yet. The review stated that we should have played finals but I am now wondering how accurate and manufactured that was. Does anyone else now think a more cautious approach was needed with messaging something along the lines of :

• We have committed to Vossy for at least 3 years and will give him every opportunity to introduce and implement his football methodology to the playing group in a structured and planned approach.
• We will assess the playing group every year and make the necessary changes needed to reach our goal which is premierships under Vossy's leadership.
• We will provide the Players and Coaching Staff with the best resources possible within the caps to ensure we reach our goal which is premierships under Vossy's leadership.

Has the weight of expectation impeded our group rather than motivating it?

 

[Juice030103]

Josh Carr

Josh Carr

Age

44

Ht

179cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.8

3star

.

 

[Countryblueswitnotattoos]

Personally I’m not keen on sacking another coach as it’s just repeating the cycles of past mistakes. The reality is the list isn’t that good so I’d like to see a clean out of all the guys we know aren’t good enough. On my last count as many as 15 players need to go so that’ll take 2 years.

Whatever happens I do not want anyone who has been involved appointing coaches over the last 10 years involved again and indeed those people should leave the club before Voss does, specifically Sayers and Lloyd. They have shown repeatedly they cannot make the right decision.

That all said if we lose the next 3 games it’s hard to see Voss surviving beyond that. Also Sayers has the PwC tax scandal hovering over him which could see him stand down shortly so his words about Voss being safe might not mean too much.

In that case I think it should ultimately come down to what Brian Cook thinks. Given his track record I’m happy to get behind whatever he decides including keeping Voss if that is his view. IMO the most obvious and best alternative is Don Pyke.

Getting sick of people saying 'the list isn't that good'.

The talent is there. When I am at the ground, I am seeing effort.

It's the gameplan. It is not working and it is sapping our players of confidence. They are constantly outnumbered, under pressure and confused. It makes them look slow. They make mistakes. They can't execute.

But Voss aint going nowhere. We've been down that road before. Just need to hope there is enough intellect at the club to figure it out and enough humility to make the necessary changes.