Discussion Solutions

[Papa Juggs]

I'm sick of not having a forward line.

We need to play Lynch and leave him in the team to develop.

 

[Squizz]

I remember a guy who played in #52 (he may have played a few games in #35 too) saying that Baldock helped him and 3 others immensely by committing to playing them for 4 games in a row regardles of their form (think 2 of the others were Bowey and Daniels).

Whilst we were ordinary back then, and the player involved was pretty handy, there is talent in the VFL that would benefit (as Benchy mentioned) by playing with some of the best on-field leaders the club has ever had - whilst they are still in their prime.

 

[cartwright]

I remember a guy who played in #52 (he may have played a few games in #35 too) saying that Baldock helped him and 3 others immensely by committing to playing them for 4 games in a row regardles of their form (think 2 of the others were Bowey and Daniels).

Whilst we were ordinary back then, and the player involved was pretty handy, there is talent in the VFL that would benefit (as Benchy mentioned) by playing with some of the best on-field leaders the club has ever had - whilst they are still in their prime.

pfft with those jumper numbers, musta been a dud

Agree with Bench. I think you need to apply for assistant coach down there BTW.

 

[Up Bush]

Dempster is our Steve Smith right now, I don't know why we play him. He was brilliant as a tagger before he did his ACL, and has never looked like that since. Too slow to tag, too poor a shot on goal to play forward, not accountable enough as a defender. Every time Ross throws him forward I cringe.

Would have thought Dempster is our most accountable backman. He just doesn't get enough of the 'pill'.

 

[Squizz]

Dempster is our Steve Smith right now, I don't know why we play him. He was brilliant as a tagger before he did his ACL, and has never looked like that since. Too slow to tag, too poor a shot on goal to play forward, not accountable enough as a defender. Every time Ross throws him forward I cringe.

Would have thought Dempster is our most accountable backman. He just doesn't get enough of the 'pill'.

I quite like Steve Smith .

I'm a fan of Dempster too (although as I've said maybe not in the same team as other similar types). His straight line speed and spoiling ability (noting he's 191cm) are excellent.

But agree that he's lost a little of his lateral movement in chasing the short people around.

And whilst he can kick 60m (not many on our list can do that) I also agree he doesn't hurt teams in front of goal and doesn't get alot of possession.

I do think he's quite accountable though (which in part is why he doesn't get much of the ball).

Johnson might have had 26 possessions, but 2 inside 50s and one behind was hardly damaging. Pretty ordinay disposal efficiency at 62% (given he had 12 handballs). And his shot on goal was due to a dumb free kick from Boogie Dempster (not from giving him too much space).

 

[AFaiL]

Who here wouldn't be surprised if next week we see

In: Kosi

Out: Armitage

Just sayin'....

Lyon was either talking shit pre season about wanting to score more, or, he just wanted to stick with what he knew worked against Geelong - and let's face it - we kept em under 50 points. Our backline is amazing, seriously.

Anyways, my $0.02 worth has McQualter being banished never to be seen again. It appears Steven isn't fit enough yet (which is really unfortunate), so somebody like Tom Lynch needs to be given a few games. Mini has had his time, it's Tom's turn to have a good crack.

Other players who need to be looked at to be dropped are Gram (seriously, not 1 kick was aimed at a target, all for distance!), Dempster & Peake. I've given up on Clarke getting dropped, it wont happen.

I like gram, and he does have the talent, he just needs to seriously work on his kicking. When Dal said in "the challenge" that they wer practising their floaters to be ready for Jason Grams kicks, he wasn't joking!

Gram ==> Geary maybe? Let's not get crazy and suggest we will bring in 4 rookies.

Dempster ==> Ali Smith. I don't know what else he needs to do.

Peake ==> Cripps. They said he was ready, he has #35 ffs, give him a run.

If Kosi was to come in, i'd prob leave out Gears.

I just dont get it with Ross sometimes. We are an experienced, big bodied team. Surely, surely, they can "carry" some kids who aren't as strong. They won't be required to be in the trenches - Lenny, CJ, Joey and Armo will do that. They all have the talent to contribute, just let them play! Surely, they can add more than the aformentioned players?

 

[Papa Juggs]

It's time we stopped blaming the players and started blaming the coach / gameplan for our lack of scoring.

We need players in the forward half. We need real setups infront of goal.

Taking 2 minutes to move the ball down to Riewoldt after Geelong had all flooded back onto him is a bullshit gameplan and Lyon needs to be called out on it.

 

[karmafree]

I remember a guy who played in #52 (he may have played a few games in #35 too) saying that Baldock helped him and 3 others immensely by committing to playing them for 4 games in a row regardles of their form (think 2 of the others were Bowey and Daniels).

Whilst we were ordinary back then, and the player involved was pretty handy, there is talent in the VFL that would benefit (as Benchy mentioned) by playing with some of the best on-field leaders the club has ever had - whilst they are still in their prime.

This is what I have been squarking about for months. You can give two young players a 4 week guaranteed burst in the seniors and let them know they won't be dropped. Show us what you have got should be the encouragement. They will automatically improve by playing with better players at a higher standard. If they don't, either return them to Sandy for a couple of months, and give them another go if they are showing something, or delist them at the end of the year.

 

[Up Bush]

****ing great post. someone has come out and said it and i totally agree!!!!! we need better team balance for me we need to start to cull the old and go with the new.

dempster dawson gwilt
clark gilbert fisher

the rest are backups or trade/delist material. blake should be used as a backup ruckman/sub now. i totally agree with you on the grams/mcqualters/goddards. goddard should be in the center and given licence to go where its hot. mcqualter either makes it as an attacking foward or he's gone. gram either makes it on the wing or as a push up forward flanker or he's gone. peake is in the same mold as is ray. ray atleast has the tagging option to his game.

Baker is at retirement. its either dempster or baker, not both.

I agree with your back half. This area should have 2-3 players that are the disignated carriers & 2-3 that are more 'stay at home'. You cannot have 6 carriers as some posters seem to think we should. There has to be some accountability. It is not the fault of the backhalf or the players that rotate through there that we lost. There are more fundamental problems.........

*lack of speed from midfield area when we have the ball

*midfielders who are not great kicks ie hit a target & kick goals

*a fwd line that pushes too far up the ground. That is OK if you have leg/ball speed enabling players to run into spaces toward goal but we don't.

*lack of a dominant ruckman at present

*at present only have Roo as a target. Go to him too often even when there are 2-3 covering him. Where are the crumbers and our loose players?

 

[Squizz]

No question I am a little late to the party, kf. But I'm here now!

I rarely have a stab at a team, but here goes (looks pretty "pleasing" to me):

B: Baker Dawson Gwilt
HB: Clarke Fisher Gilbert
C: Montagna Hayes Cripps/Winmar
HF: Goddard Archer Stanley
F: Milne Riewoldt Gamble

R: McEvoy Dal Santo Jones

I: Blake Ray Armitage

Sub: Gram

Kosi for Archer when fit
Schneider for Gamble
Steven for Cripps/Winmar
Gardi for ?

No doubt someone will point out who I missed or what's wrong with the team - but if that side can't kick 100 points most weeks I'd be amazed.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No question I am a little late to the party, kf. But I'm here now!

I rarely have a stab at a team, but here goes (looks pretty "pleasing" to me):

B: Baker Dawson Gwilt
HB: Clarke Fisher Gilbert
C: Montagna Hayes Cripps/Winmar
HF: Goddard Archer Stanley
F: Milne Riewoldt Gamble

R: McEvoy Dal Santo Jones

I: Blake Ray Armitage

Sub: Gram

Kosi for Archer when fit
Schneider for Gamble
Steven for Cripps/Winmar
Gardi for ?

No doubt someone will point out who I missed or what's wrong with the team - but if that side can't kick 100 points most weeks I'd be amazed.

Would have opponents reaching for their platform boots.

The only problem with playing Goddard forward is that he's one of the few who win contested ball in the midfield. If Gram is an effective midfielder, why not do it.

 

[Squizz]

The only problem with playing Goddard forward is that he's one of the few who win contested ball in the midfield.

But under our game plan, our forward line spends half their time in the midfield anyway!

I'd just rather BJ rotate from the F50 to the midfield, rather than what he does now (going from the midfield into defence). I think we're at the stage now where our defence can be trusted.

And given our marks inside 50 can be limited, we just have to nail more set shots. BTW - whilst I've got no problem with Roo's new kicking technique when in front of goals 20-40m out, he has to stop using it when on a difficult angle!!! Doesn't look like getting anywhere near the sticks and loses distance too.

With the height thing, I consider all the guys to be mobile and like the incentive for players to deliver the ball in quickly. If a few get dragged up into congestion, at least there should still be a couple of guys at home who can catch the friggin thing.

 

[karmafree]

I have the hots for The Knife on the wing. Opposition won't take him seriously. Get out of jail option for the backs with his pace and marking. Have to have Smith& Lynch ,in the mix soon or delist them at end of season Ditto Cahill. Drop Maqualter, Dempster, choose between Baker, Blake Jones. BJ must go forward either resting from midfield or at full forward. Will give Gamble a few more games before making the call.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But under our game plan, our forward line spends half their time in the midfield anyway!

I'd just rather BJ rotate from the F50 to the midfield, rather than what he does now (going from the midfield into defence). I think we're at the stage now where our defence can be trusted.

And given our marks inside 50 can be limited, we just have to nail more set shots. BTW - whilst I've got no problem with Roo's new kicking technique when in front of goals 20-40m out, he has to stop using it when on a difficult angle!!! Doesn't look like getting anywhere near the sticks and loses distance too.

With the height thing, I consider all the guys to be mobile and like the incentive for players to deliver the ball in quickly. If a few get dragged up into congestion, at least there should still be a couple of guys at home who can catch the friggin thing.

Ah so thats how it works. I just thought we had 20 onballers like grade one at lunch time. ( I keep seeing Milne up the back FFS ).

 

[Squizz]

you must be joking? to say we should delist smith and lynch at the end of the season is comical. Don't kid yourself, ross refuses to blood youngsters for a few years, would you have liked GT to delist Goddard after 3 years for his shocking performances........Idiot

Think you may have missed part of the conversation - his point has been what's the point of hanging on to kids with talent only to never play them.

 

[dg102]

You guys freak out way too much.

The game wasnt too bad. To keep a team to 15 points or so into the 3rd is a phenomenal defensive effort. Were still the best defensive side in the comp!

We could have been 30+ points ahead at 3q time. It takes a hell of an effort for most of the players to sprint up and down the ground for 4 quaters and when that gets better we will push forward better and we will kick more goals. And If our defence stays that good all year were not going to loose many games. Thats for sure.

Congratz to geelong, there defensive pressure was 1st class all game. (which also caused us alot of turn overs and difficult kicks at goals)

Guys stop looking for players to cut out off the team and start realizing how potent this team is going to be (because of our defence) when they figure out a more effective avenue to goal. Which we will. As we do every year.

 

[thomas_m18]

You guys freak out way too much.

The game wasnt too bad. To keep a team to 15 points or so into the 3rd is a phenomenal defensive effort. Were still the best defensive side in the comp!

We could have been 30+ points ahead at 3q time. It takes a hell of an effort for most of the players to sprint up and down the ground for 4 quaters and when that gets better we will push forward better and we will kick more goals. And If our defence stays that good all year were not going to loose many games. Thats for sure.

Congratz to geelong, there defensive pressure was 1st class all game. (which also caused us alot of turn overs and difficult kicks at goals)

Guys stop looking for players to cut out off the team and start realizing how potent this team is going to be (because of our defence) when they figure out a more effective avenue to goal. Which we will. As we do every year.

Surely, though, you can understand the frustration of the fans when we see the likes of McQualter and Dempster running around doing **** all when we have kids ready to play AFL flailing on the sidelines because the opportunities aren't being given to them.

We need to get better to take it up to Collingwood. The team we brought against Geelong and the way we played isn't the way to go forward.

 

[sainter35]

Solution

B: Dempster, Dawson, Gwilt
HB: Clarke, Blake, Fisher
C: Montagna, Hayes, Ledger
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Armitage
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Gamble/Lynch/Stanley

Foll: McEvoy, Dal Santo, Goddard
Int: Ray, Gilbert, Gram, Steven

OUT: McQualter, Peake, Jones, Baker
IN: Koschitzke, Schneider, Steven, Ledger

Replace players who rarely get the ball and can't kick it with those who do get the ball and can kick it.

Spot on. This would be my changes also except for injuries perhaps.

 

[dg102]

Surely, though, you can understand the frustration of the fans when we see the likes of McQualter and Dempster running around doing **** all when we have kids ready to play AFL flailing on the sidelines because the opportunities aren't being given to them.

We need to get better to take it up to Collingwood. The team we brought against Geelong and the way we played isn't the way to go forward.

I dont buy into these theories that replacing players like McQualter and Dempster with kids like Winmar and Cripps is going to improve the side in any wayt in the short term.

You have to understand what a significant difference its makes to the team when just one player goes down. It would be the same as replacing one of those seasoned verterans with a kid. I mean surley not Winmar, he just isnt ready for the speed and pressure of AFL yet. Same goes for alot of the names people have been throwing around the forums. And I dont think we played that bad after 1 game to already start waving the axe.

 

[thomas_m18]

I dont buy into these theories that replacing players like McQualter and Dempster with kids like Winmar and Cripps is going to improve the side in any wayt in the short term.

You have to understand what a significant difference its makes to the team when just one player goes down. It would be the same as replacing one of those seasoned verterans with a kid. I mean surley not Winmar, he just isnt ready for the speed and pressure of AFL yet. Same goes for alot of the names people have been throwing around the forums. And I dont think we played that bad after 1 game to already start waving the axe.

It's not just one bad game though. These players have been given ample time to develop into at least good ordinary players and none of them have done that. At least with Winmar and Cripps they have something to add. Pace, youth, excitement, anything. McQualter and Dempster, as handy as they have been, don't add any of that. I'm sure that Cripps is ready for AFL and we won't know with Winmar until we try, will we?

 

[karmafree]

Think you may have missed part of the conversation - his point has been what's the point of hanging on to kids with talent only to never play them.

Thanks Squizz.
After three years in the system, play em or slay em. And if you play em give them a decent crack at it, minimum 4 games in a row.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's not just one bad game though. These players have been given ample time to develop into at least good ordinary players and none of them have done that. At least with Winmar and Cripps they have something to add. Pace, youth, excitement, anything. McQualter and Dempster, as handy as they have been, don't add any of that. I'm sure that Cripps is ready for AFL and we won't know with Winmar until we try, will we?

Its not the players themself. Its the mix of players.
If everyone on the team is a tagger who cannot mover the ball forward effectively it will make it very difficult for the opposition to score. Unfortunately it will make it impossible for StKilda to score.

Jones is good in that he is a tagger who can get the ball, If only he could kick it.
Given that we dont have another BJ sitting there, we need to find the next best choice and play them.
If we had ten great ruckmen sureley we wouldn't select them all each week. Taggers should be the same.

 

[dolph]

Until our ball movement and basic skill level improves, we are not a realistic chance to win a premieship IMO. Hence why we have poached David Wheadon from Geelong to help develop this area. Against the good sides with a good defence/press, we really struggle to work through the midfield from defence and as such end up bombing to Riewoldt and the opposition just picks us off. The only difference I see between say Collingwood and us is that there players are better skilled and have more attacking flair. If we had that we would have won a premiership by now. Essendon are on the up because they can attack very well as they have good skills. All they needed was to stiffen up their team defence. Dont be surprised if they make top 4 based on current form. Geelong were so good because they used the ball well and quickly. I could provide more examples on this. We dont do it very well and it is to our detriment.

There is a lot of talk about bringing in the kids, and to some extent that would be good, but that is not our problem. The team that played on the weekend (for the most part) has gotten us to 3 grand finals. It can do the job, we just need to become better by foot and hand and much better in transition. If you work the ball well in transition the lack of height in the forward line becomes less of an issue as you will create space by making all backmen accountable or by sucking them away from their opponent.

There are plenty of other things I can talk about but will leave it for now. Look forward to seeing if anyone else shares my opinion.

 

[dg102]

I watched Essendon who are noted for being prime movers, don't flood back as far and as many players during there defensive push. And these disposal options are positioned in a way to get free in the right moment of release.

We cant seem to do that properly because of the extent of our flood mentality, and the system has become so inbred in the players that its hard for them to play any other way. But we do defend harder as a group then any other team I think.

We were at our peak in this regard in 09 and for varying reasons the players havnt been able to replicate that kind of frontal pressure since.

Will be interesting to see the outcome of the 2 varying playing styles when we play the bombers in a few weeks and weather they will be able to find the kind of space against us as they did at the G against the dogs.

 

[Plugger35]

Quite a few teams like Collingwood and Essendon have copied that frontal pressure and defensive pressure on the ball carrier style that we had in 2009 but have added a more attacking element to it, so unless we can improve the attacking side of our game those teams will overtake us.