Sorry, Lib.....

[SCRAY72]

I'm new to this Forum and I couldn't give a stuff about Hunter, Dimma or Liberatore. I have been a member since 1972 and I want my team to be ultra competitive at worst and challenge for the flag if the list is strong enough.

I want Wallace to pick the best 22 each week. Yes Dimma had 35 possies in his ONE game at Werribee but a guy like Mitch Hahn seems to need 7 or 8 good games before he is promoted to the emergencies. My only beef with Hunter is that he should use his size more often in one on one contests. As for Liberatore, people always talk about the past. Well, it is 2002 and to win at Colonial you need to minimise turnovers and Liberatore and Kretiuk are not overly skilled in this area however they do have a role to play against some opposition teams.

I think the club still has thoughts about making the finals but a loss against the Crows will end that and then the test will come. Will Bowden, Hahn and Power be given a chance and who makes way?

 

[HahnPremium8]

Originally posted by SCRAY72

I want Wallace to pick the best 22 each week. Yes Dimma had 35 possies in his ONE game at Werribee but a guy like Mitch Hahn seems to need 7 or 8 good games before he is promoted to the emergencies.

YEAH!!!

 

[The Doctor]

I had an awful feeling about the Hawks game after I saw the team selections. Like everyone else I couldn't understand them. It seems to me that the match committee and coaching panel combined to make the same sort of mistakes we were making earlier in the year and late last year.

Lets have a look at some of the similarities;

* Loading up the side with smalls
* Dumping young players to make way for old players
* Tall forward gets dumped and replaced by a small despite playing a team with distinct height advantage
* Young player who does well in previous game sits on bench as a reward in the next game
* Playing indirect football most likely caused by lack of key forward targets. We have played well all year when operating with 3 key forwards why change it?
* Young players doing well with Werribee remain their while others arguably less deserving get promoted.

* What next? Barts to full forward again?

I really hate to be negative folks but this really irks me. We found a bit of a winning formula with a better forward structure and the injection of enthusiatic youth. We lose and draw one game against 2 of the better sides and suddenly we have to revert to the old ways. Just ridiculous. I would rather lose trying to discover new ways to win that rely on proven failed game plans.

I hope common sense returns this week.

 

[SCRAY72]

Here Here Doc, I couldn't have said it better myself. Starting McGuinness on the bench was an unbelievable decision.
Playing a small forward line against Rawlings, Hay and Graham was an amazing move as well.

Wallace was outcoached.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/16/1026802690348.html

It's not often that I agree with Brereton, but I think he's right about this. I believe it's extremely important that Libba goes out on the right note and Dermie's final suggestion is a very good idea IMO.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Doc, you said exactly what I wanted to say.

Those were mystifying team selections and indicated that we have learned (or is it learnt? chigago please advise) nothing over the last three months.

We need to get back to the forward structure that served us well to date and reward players who perform. McGuinness starts on the ground and kicks three goals so naturally next week you start him on the bench. I know I'm not the smartest grape in the bunch but that decision fooled me and I think a few of the players are wondering what it is all about too.I think Wallace is an excellent coach overall but sometimes I wish he would explain some of his decisions for the benefit of the members.

 

[jim440]

Originally posted by Mr. Walker
Doc, you said exactly what I wanted to say.

Those were mystifying team selections and indicated that we have learned (or is it learnt? chigago please advise) nothing over the last three months.

We need to get back to the forward structure that served us well to date and reward players who perform. McGuinness starts on the ground and kicks three goals so naturally next week you start him on the bench. I know I'm not the smartest grape in the bunch but that decision fooled me and I think a few of the players are wondering what it is all about too.I think Wallace is an excellent coach overall but sometimes I wish he would explain some of his decisions for the benefit of the members.

Starting McGuinness on the bench didn't hurt us, it worked as a surprise tactic once, it wasn't going to work again.

Leaving Luke Penny out of the side was criminal.

 

[Chops]

Penny hasn't been getting a kick with Werribee. 1 good senior game v North doesn't make him a champion and automatic selection.
I hope he makes its but hasn't yet.

Starting Maguiness on the bench would have done wonders for his confidence!!!!!
He nearly kicks 5 in his first game v Essendon then you put him on the bench after dropping the other FF???

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by still_believe


I have no doubt, PC28, that Dimma is a top bloke and I really admire his team spirit, enthusiasm and endeavours, but am just not sure if that is any more enough, especially with the class of the kids coming through. The same goes for Libber. The debate about Hunter has a similar theme...liking his eccentricities (and yes, I do too Bulldog1954!!) shouldn't be a substitute for being able to evaluate his form, which has often been disappointing this year.

I don't want to drag it up again.................... but I am anyway

I said all along that Hunter was out of form, my debate was that people were virtually saying he had no ability and was "not a footballers arseh*le". He was out of form, but that is it, he has not just instantly become a dud footballer, he was easily in our best side in 2000 and 2001. I have no doubt he can return to that form.

I also couldn't believe that after the Hawthorn game he was our first player menioned as being awful, yet he got more of the ball then any of our other key forwards, kicked a goal and did not record a clanger or a turnover. Localyokel being the astute football judge he is even gave him a vote in the Ching

I will bet anyone that the Monobrowed Magician will be lining up against Adelaide this Sunday.

And while I love Libber I think this will and should be his last year, It's time for Little Lindsay, Birssy and hopefully Sam Power to take over.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Originally posted by Bulldog1954
Localyokel being the astute football judge he is even gave him a vote in the Ching

We werent exactly spoiled for choices and I can only vote for Phil Maylin after interstate games.


But he was our fifth best player on friday night.

 

[Dogs r Roos]

Originally posted by Rocco Jones


Like the above post, my comments were not solely based on last night's game.

Everytime someone bags Hunter on this board you guys come up with the at least he isn't bad as Dimma/Saunders/Eagleton line. Two of these guys are playing for Werribee and the other hopefully will soon again so what does that say?

I reckon it's real cute that you guys love Kinger and PC loves Dimma, but you guys have to remember I like most of the fans on this board have to watch their **** week in, week out and if I don't think they are good for the club then I will say so.

Well said Rocco, I had mentioned Dimma, Libba and Bartlett at the beginning of the season as being finished and got my head bitten off and the collect few on this forum who seem to think they are the only ones that can have an opinion would not reply, quote or comment on anymore of my threads. Dimma, Libba have done well for the club, BUT when it is time to go, it is time to go. Hunter & Eagleton should also be looking elsewhere at the end of the season because within the scheme of things and the way the bulldogs are setting up their team and winning games, those two have no positive input, not matter how many stats are on the board, Stats are deceiving, it's where those kicks and handballs end up.

 

[Dogs r Roos]

Originally posted by still_believe
It seems to me that we all get a bit confused between liking a particular player and what he represents, and his actual form at times. Libber has been such an icon, and seems to symbolise our club so much, that is hard for us all to admit that there is no longer a real place for him in the team. When I saw his selection and that of Dimma I winced, realising our skill level, which was there for all to see against Essendon, was about to drop.

I have no doubt, PC28, that Dimma is a top bloke and I really admire his team spirit, enthusiasm and endeavours, but am just not sure if that is any more enough, especially with the class of the kids coming through. The same goes for Libber. The debate about Hunter has a similar theme...liking his eccentricities (and yes, I do too Bulldog1954!!) shouldn't be a substitute for being able to evaluate his form, which has often been disappointing this year.

If being a good bloke was the main criteria for being in the team...lots more of us would be in it (even though I'm not a bloke..but Craig Bradley has set a precedent in those areas anyway ). At the moment I'm feeling a bit disillusioned anyway with another of those supposedly "good blokes" that we all loved to see in the team often regardless of form and reality...one Daniel Southern who is not exactly repaying the loyalty the club showed him..maybe we need to be a bit more cold-hearted and clear eyed sometimes about our favourite players...a premiership is what we are all after isn't it.

Well said, fantastic reply but be prepared to be slagged for having such a truthful, honest and 2002 realistic view on the game and our team. Gee could you imagine if some of these other posters were on the match committee, we'd still have Brad Nicholson, Sedat Sir, Mark Cullen, just to name a few (unskilled, clayton footballers) still playing for us. Let's move on and hope that the current match committee see the light soon.

 

[Chicago1]

Ignore mode is on again!

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by Dogs r Roos
Gee could you imagine if some of these other posters were on the match committee, we'd still have Brad Nicholson, Sedat Sir, Mark Cullen, just to name a few (unskilled, clayton footballers) still playing for us. Let's move on and hope that the current match committee see the light soon.

This is rubbish!

How can you compare duds like Sir, Nicholson, Cullen to Libba and even Dimma. Libba is near 300 games and Dimma has played over 100 and these guys never even got close.
Dimma in form has been and can be still a vital member of side. eg Collingwood game.
For Libba time is not on his side, but what a great champ he has been.
With people like you on the match committee great servants of the club like Libba and Dimma would never have got a run!

 

[SCRAY72]

DOGS R ROOS
I don't know who you are but I can see you aspirations as a Bulldogs member. You want the guys to win a premiership before you leave this earth or when the AFL decides to turn out the lights because 20000 members is not enough.
Players come and go, some are good blokes some are not, some are highly skilled some are not. In the end we want our team to challenge and not be an also ran, regardless of who represents the seniors.

Chicago if you are ignoring a fellow Member because you disagree with them then I am surprised. I am pretty sure if you check the Cubs website and I'm sure you do you will find Cubbies fans being critical of their players as well because they are sick of losing. 1908 was the last title?

It is all about respect and if you fork out $300 a year unconditionally every year you are entitled to an opinion and that is all it is an opinion. If you ignored everyone you disagreed with you would be talking to yourself.

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by SCRAY72


Chicago if you are ignoring a fellow Member because you disagree with them then I am surprised. I am pretty sure if you check the Cubs website and I'm sure you do you will find Cubbies fans being critical of their players as well because they are sick of losing. 1908 was the last title?

Seeing that you just registered last month, I don't think you understand the division that the poster brought to this board earlier this year. Try this famous post of his for example :

"I have been reading all your threads and comments/reply to mine and you are all so full of bloody good words and confidence towards the bullldogs. They do not deserve any praise whatsoever!!!. They are a bunch of BOYS imitating a FOOTBALL SIDE. They should be charged with fraud. They are crap and there is no HOPE this year!!. We are FINISHED!!."

Not exactly the type of supporter who endears himself to others, is he?

And as for your comments on the Cubs... strange how 39,117 others attended yesterday's game with me! (We lost 2-0 and only got TWO hits!) And over 40,000 attended Monday evening's game. These are the loyal supporters who stick by a club through thin and thin! All clubs have so called supporters whose only goal is to support a winning team. We Cubs supporters follow our team because we love them no matter what! Too many young Doggie supporters have only really followed the team since the early 90's. Their loyalty has never really been tested. And when it is, as in the case of the aforementioned poster, they fall apart and react in vitriol.

"They are crap and there is no HOPE this year!!. WE ARE FINISHED!!."

I don't know about you, SCRAY72, but I saw a hell of a lot of HOPE this year in May and June!

Forgot to add : "Here endeth the lesson."

 

[Mr. Walker]

Originally posted by Chops


This is rubbish!

How can you compare duds like Sir, Nicholson, Cullen to Libba and even Dimma. !

For what its worth I never thought Nicholson was a dud. He was an excellent FB trapped in a HBF's body. The story of our lives - just a couple of inches short.

 

[SCRAY72]

Originally posted by Chicago1


Seeing that you just registered last month, I don't think you understand the division that the poster brought to this board earlier this year. Try this famous post of his for example :



Not exactly the type of supporter who endears himself to others, is he?

And as for your comments on the Cubs... strange how 39,117 others attended yesterday's game with me! (We lost 2-0 and only got TWO hits!) And over 40,000 attended Monday evening's game. These are the loyal supporters who stick by a club through thin and thin! All clubs have so called supporters whose only goal is to support a winning team. We Cubs supporters follow our team because we love them no matter what! Too many young Doggie supporters have only really followed the team since the early 90's. Their loyalty has never really been tested. And when it is, as in the case of the aforementioned poster, they fall apart and react in vitriol.

I don't know about you, SCRAY72, but I saw a hell of a lot of HOPE this year in May and June!

Forgot to add : "Here endeth the lesson."

I do not doubt Cubs fans love their club. I have been to Wrigley, I saw them beat San Francisco 15 to 3. I had a ball and met some young fans who want their team to just make the playoffs just as a start. Big crowds are fine. Many teams in the US, Europe and even here i.e Richmond, Sunderland, the Boston Red Sox have huge followings but I am pretty sure they want to win. They are not going to say "Hey we lost again but crowds are up"

I am not defending DogsRRoos or anyone else, obviously some supporters are more emotional than others. Just remember we all want the same thing whether Bartlett, Eagleton, Liberatore are playing or not.

Finally your comment about Hope. I saw HOPE in 1972,1974,1976,1983,1985,1992,1994,1995,1997 and 1998.
Final score : No premierships.

Here endeth another lesson

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by SCRAY72


I have been to Wrigley, I saw them beat San Francisco 15 to 3.

Damn you! I've seen them lose in both the games I've been to this year, once to those awful New York Mets!(You would have had to have been a Cubs fan in 1969 to know how much we loathe the Mets)

We lost tonight to the Phillies. Ahead 3-1 in the bottom of the ninth and blew the lead. Lost in the 10th with a play that looked like something Eagleton might have conjured up!

And how dare you even mention Richmond supporters in the same paragraph as Cubs fans! Unforgiveable!

 

[dancingdoggie17]

Libba is a legend and always will be to all bulldogs supporters but i agree his time has come. He doesn't fit into the type of football the bulldogs are playing and is taking up a spot that could be used to bring in fresh players who need match experience. The penny also dropped with me when i realised that I wanted his calf injury to keep him out for another week. I never thought i would be able to say i wanted libba to go but he is not a great asset to the team anymore.

He's a legend and should get out while he can still retire with dignity.

 

[Chops]

Originally posted by Mr. Walker


For what its worth I never thought Nicholson was a dud. He was an excellent FB trapped in a HBF's body. The story of our lives - just a couple of inches short.

Yes your probably right, I was a bit harsh here.

Cullen and Sir pretty much duds.

Libba a champion of the club.
Dimma done well to play 100 games

 

[SCRAY72]

Originally posted by Chicago1


Damn you! I've seen them lose in both the games I've been to this year, once to those awful New York Mets!(You would have had to have been a Cubs fan in 1969 to know how much we loathe the Mets)

We lost tonight to the Phillies. Ahead 3-1 in the bottom of the ninth and blew the lead. Lost in the 10th with a play that looked like something Eagleton might have conjured up!

And how dare you even mention Richmond supporters in the same paragraph as Cubs fans! Unforgiveable!

Just making the point that crowd numbers sometimes mean very little. Richmond is a bad example. If you said to the Cubs owners you can have average crowds of 39,000 and a 72-90 season or crowds of 25,000 and a 100-62 season you know what they would prefer.

Back to the Doggies. One thing I would never do in this Forum is ignore someones thoughts. Even at the game or in the social club my attitude is if you are a member and hence love the club I listen and swap opinions.

 

[Chicago1]

Originally posted by SCRAY72


Back to the Doggies. One thing I would never do in this Forum is ignore someones thoughts. Even at the game or in the social club my attitude is if you are a member and hence love the club I listen and swap opinions.

With all due respect, SCRAY72, please look at the following quotes from what this person who claims to be a member and loves the club has written on the Kangaroos Board :

I can't understand eiither. He should be in the twos. I feel he is injured, and because we are lacking a few cattle, Pagan thinks he
must be a better option. I agree put him in the twos. We will never get any value out of the colbert deal, but i reckon geelong will. How do you feel?

Agree totally. Could not understand why they redrafted him. Surley Adam Lange or Shannon Watt could learn. It is time Pagan started making some tough decisions. If he doesn,t in a years time(if we are still around), we are going to get huge scores kicked against us. Do you agree?

Agree. But what are our options in the twos. Surley Joel Mclaren should get a game before Makepeace!!

Agree whole heartedly. But some of the blame has to go to the coaching staff. Surley they must see what is going on during the game. Pagan has to make the hard decisions now, start axing a few of the so called CORE PLAYERS and give the young guys a go. If we get beaten so be it, but at least we will have a future. The way we played today, is just a taste of what we are going to get for the rest of the year. A suggestion I have is when we are getting beaten out of the centre like we were today, why didn't Pagan use a little creativity and put Pickett in for the centre bounces. At least he might have been able to dish out a few good bumps!! and break the game open a bit.

Please notice the use of the Personal Pronoun "we" used by the poster. I may be nitpicking, but I don't believe schizophrenic supporters should be encouraged! You're either for us or agin us!

 

[SCRAY72]

Originally posted by Chicago1


With all due respect, SCRAY72, please look at the following quotes from what this person who claims to be a member and loves the club has written on the Kangaroos Board :



Please notice the use of the Personal Pronoun "we" used by the poster. I may be nitpicking, but I don't believe schizophrenic supporters should be encouraged! You're either for us or agin us!

Chicago, this doesn't sound like the same person. The person that wrote this a North supporter. My guess, relative or friend living in the same house or working together using the one title.

 

[SCRAY72]

This is my last post concerning this topic. All along the theme of my argument is I am a member of the Bulldogs, I want my team to give 100% every time they take the field. I want Wallace to pick the best 22 available each week. I want my team to challenge for the flag.

And the reason I joined this Forum is to listen and respect everyone's views.

Go Doggies