Autopsy The not even The Bont, Libbas and Jones' heroics can drag us over the line against the cats thread

[stefoid]

That's why I would like to see JOD back in to release Buku to be able to have a more roaming role to match up on a Cameron or be more intercept focused

I think the idea was buku would take him inside d50 and anyone who was around would handover when he was outside. It makes some kind of sense, as you dont want to sacrifice a player to basically trail Cameron by 2m all over the field for the entire game.

One of the things we lack is a settled backline with experienced key posts who know each other and what to do and when to do it. Thats part of the reason we look like headless chooks at some times I guess.

 

[Munnez]

I’d love to see us with an extra behind the ball.

I think we need to be a bit braver and not let them have the extra defender to impact. We need to have even numbers ahead of the ball to make them accountable.

 

[ScragCity]

Its been a nice change for me to really not care much about this one. I was angry at the time but normally after a loss like this I'd still be feeling flat the next day. Previously when we lost these close ones to Geelong I would think some combination of "Oh, we were just so unlucky! We would have won if not for that unlucky event!" or "We deserved to win that one!" or "We're the better team but we just had an off night!"

This year I have no illusions about what we are. They've always been a better team than us apart from one month in 2016. Obviously we didn't have to face them in that final series but we beat the team who knocked them out. The 5 day break evened the playing field a bit but we were always going to need a lot to go right for us to beat them. They're just so well coached and they always looked like they could go end-to-end at any minute for an easy goal.

These days I just expect us to lose to any team better or around the same mark as us, especially if it's prime time. We might win the occasional game against a decent team if it's played on a Sunday in Ballarat, but on the big stage we are serial chokers and seemingly always will be until we have a turnover in coaching staff and probably list.

 

[Oliver G]

Since the start of 2023, we are now 1-6 for matches decided by single-digit figures and have lost the last 6...

R4 2024 lost to Geelong by 4 points
R23 2023 lost to West Coast by 7 points
R22 2023 lost to Hawthorn by 3 points
R20 2023 lost to GWS by 5 points
R18 2023 lost to Sydney by 2 points
R11 2023 lost to Gold Coast by 7 points
R4 2023 won against Richmond by 5 points

In our last 11 matches, 5 have been decided single-digit figures with all of them being losses.

You've got to make every shot at goal count.

 

[maddog37]

Its been a nice change for me to really not care much about this one. I was angry at the time but normally after a loss like this I'd still be feeling flat the next day. Previously when we lost these close ones to Geelong I would think some combination of "Oh, we were just so unlucky! We would have won if not for that unlucky event!" or "We deserved to win that one!" or "We're the better team but we just had an off night!"

This year I have no illusions about what we are. They've always been a better team than us apart from one month in 2016. Obviously we didn't have to face them in that final series but we beat the team who knocked them out. The 5 day break evened the playing field a bit but we were always going to need a lot to go right for us to beat them. They're just so well coached and they always looked like they could go end-to-end at any minute for an easy goal.

These days I just expect us to lose to any team better or around the same mark as us, especially if it's prime time. We might win the occasional game against a decent team if it's played on a Sunday in Ballarat, but on the big stage we are serial chokers and seemingly always will be until we have a turnover in coaching staff and probably list.

I would not say chokers as such.

We have forwards that can’t kick goals. Defenders who can’t defend one on one and a midfield that can’t kick with precision.

Add a game plan that somehow plays to opposition strengths and it’s a wonder we win any games.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Since the start of 2023, we are now 1-6 for matches decided by single-digit figures and have lost the last 6...

R4 2024 lost to Geelong by 4 points
R23 2023 lost to West Coast by 7 points
R22 2023 lost to Hawthorn by 3 points
R20 2023 lost to GWS by 5 points
R18 2023 lost to Sydney by 2 points
R11 2023 lost to Gold Coast by 7 points
R4 2023 won against Richmond by 5 points

In our last 11 matches, 5 have been decided single-digit figures with all of them being losses.

You've got to make every shot at goal count.

Even halving those losses likely sees us playing finals last season and sitting 3-1 this season.

Frustrating.

 

[Munnez]

What’s with people calling Geelong putrid and crap?

I can’t stand them either but clearly they are a good side.

Doesn't hurt when you keep picking up good first round talents for 2nd and 3rd round picks. And to top it off they have a couple of years in the system and are almost plug and play.
But you know the lure of home to Sleepy Hollow. Keeps them in the window perennially...... vomit inducing

 

[Oliver G]

Even halving those losses likely sees us playing finals last season

Not likely, literally. All we needed was 1 extra win last season and we would've not only made the finals but got a home final.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Since the start of 2023, we are now 1-6 for matches decided by single-digit figures and have lost the last 6...

R4 2024 lost to Geelong by 4 points
R23 2023 lost to West Coast by 7 points
R22 2023 lost to Hawthorn by 3 points
R20 2023 lost to GWS by 5 points
R18 2023 lost to Sydney by 2 points
R11 2023 lost to Gold Coast by 7 points
R4 2023 won against Richmond by 5 points

In our last 11 matches, 5 have been decided single-digit figures with all of them being losses.

You've got to make every shot at goal count.

To make it worse, we were leading at 3/4 time against West Coast, GWS and Sydney.

Out smarted, out worked, or a bit of both?

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Would we be the first team ever to lose with the 2 best players on the ground and 4 of the best 6.

1.Libba
2. Bont
3. Cameron
4. Jones
5. Miers
6. Treloar

We must be a special team to be able to orchestrate a loss with the above ratings. Takes some doing,

 

[geoffjennings79]

Would we be the first team ever to lose with the 2 best players on the ground and 4 of the best 6.

1.Libba
2. Bont
3. Cameron
4. Jones
5. Miers
6. Treloar

We must be a special team to be able to orchestrate a loss with the above ratings. Tales some doing,

1976-78, Dempsey and Templeton often in the best handful on the park, yet even with a final in 76, we lost far too many. 1978 especially - KT kicked bags, captain big Demps outpointed most rucks... people today complain about our bottom 6, 1978 some weeks we had a bottom 10 who failed to make an impact!

79-82 was probably worse though - Templeton, Jennings, Dunstan, a young Hawk and Jock, a smattering of others (Whitten Jnr, Neil Cordy, Wheels) and a lot of foot soldiers. Great grounding for a supporter though, surviving that made 2016 so much sweeter!

 

[Munnez]

Thought Stewart’s impact wasn’t felt as much as it usually is against us. Unfortunately Henry, Guthrie and Kolo were able to do as they please most of the night.

We didn't hold our forward shape at all which allowed them to roll off and impact. We need to stop sending the extra up to the contest, which we invariably bomb forward to an out number. From there on oppo just chain out to open forward line as we are left trailing behind.

 

[lachy]

Look, I don't care either way in your Stanley discussion.

But in an online forum like this, everything is subject to debate, and everyone has a right to an opinion. If you disagree, that's fine, but that sort of tone doesn't help.

Why do people not pick up the next Anterous!!!

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[grassman75]

I’m normally more than happy to bag Beveridge.

He coached pretty well tonight I reckon.

Losing isn’t always down to the coach - granted it often is with us, but tonight I think Beveridge did ok.

I’d much prefer we had. Clarko like Norf and won all those games he has

FFS people, they were better than us, VDM kicks that goal and Arc doesn’t intervene and we win

 

[grassman75]

Stengle review was the correct decision. Why are people complaining about it?

Because there seems to have been plenty of calls not reviwed and this one seems awfully random to be overturned like it was

 

[Next Waiting]

He's the answer when it comes to the only metric that matters. He's currently on the list.

We absolutely miss his run and carry. Even if it can be somewhat flawed.


Im not. He's a state league player who the team he went to saw the fit to recruit another ruckman at the same time.

Anyways. AFAIK it was his choice to leave. I guess that he knew were he sat on the list and if his future was as a back up to others. He might as well do that in the city of his birth near to family and friends.

Indeed they do.

My posts in this thread may read like Im down on our performance last night. Im not, I think we can and probably will be there abouts for the finals. What Im on about are the structural issues that are hampering our side from being able to beat on other mid range or lower ranked sides, but not being anything more than competitive cannon fodder for the better teams in the competition.

Issues that for all our thrashing about, were in stark relief last night. The cats were able to keep us at arms length for much of the night and it ultimately cost us a getable win when the Cats began to run out of legs in the last.

Ive been a critic of Bevo over the pre-season, but it's clear to see what he's trying to do when it comes to reshaping the side and how it plays. The problem is that many of the issues that have plagued this side haven't really been addressed by the changes that he has introduced.

Now this probably has a lot to do with the fall off in form of a number of our mid range senior players who should be helping to shoulder the load that the likes of The Bont and Libba carry. But unfortunately they haven't been able to rise to the occasion. Instead we're seeing that load be transferred to rookies and cast offs from other sides. As Ive said elsewhere in this thread. Its a big ask.

I was a little disappointed in the half back run against the cats given its about the only place we have genuine pace. It's an area that must improve to be competitive.

That said, Geelong have quick smalls fwd who are not afraid to defend so it's challenging.

2 and 2 with decent percentage is not terrible given we've played both Melbourne and Geelong. It's a start at least and there's scope for improvement. There's that I suppose.

 

[scratchie]

Literally, if we had played any other Ruckmen from any of the 16 clubs not participating in the last nights game we win comfortably.
We once had the smartest dumbest Ruckman in Will Minson

Will Minson

Age

39

Ht

199cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.2

4star

CL

3.5

5star

HO

21.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

3.4

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

1.4

2star

HO

7.4

5star

, today we have the best worst Ruckman in the league. Tim's center square craft is the worst in the league for a 1st pick ruck by a margin.

Tim plays the center bounce like it's basketball tap-off. It does not matter whether it's working or not Tim will not change his angles, will not make body contact. Tim will respect his opponent's space, offer his opponent a fair crack at the tap - He plays the ruck under the rules of chivalry. Only, no one else does.

As the Center square clearance disaster began to unfold last night and for the second consecutive week. Supporters may have expected some change in method. Surely, in the second-half, when the game is on the line, and those critical clearances are going to decide the game, Tim will surprise Stanley and Geelong's run of clearances. Maybe, he would cross the center line and unexpectedly take Stanley's space and thereby unsettle Geelong's method.

Surely, the coaches would have shown Tim how Grundy beat Gawn with this method. Maybe Tim might have noticed that many Ruckman cross the center and make body contact prevent their opponent for jumping. Maybe when its not working you try something else, maybe a bit more aggressive, initiate body contact, maybe jump and punch the ball forward. Nothing happened Timid Tim jumped and let the best man win.

Imagine the 3 best players on the ground were Bont, Liber and Treloar - all are center square players. Liber and Bont are recognized as elite clearance players and yet some how we get thrashed out of center clearances.

Watching the camera zoom to Beveridge during last night's game, you have to wonder what is going on in that coach's box. Bevo had the deer in the headlights look about him and sitting next to him was Spanger. I'm sure they were doing there best but there's little sign of intensity, passion, frustration, there is no sign of anything at all. Where as Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

has the demeanor of someone on the edge, alert, intent.

I don't know, maybe Spangher is genius. I watched the Saints play this afternoon, Ross Lyon had Robert Harvey sitting next to him in the box. Robert Harvey played 383 games, win 2 brownlow medals, 8 all Australian selections. and was an Assistant coach at Collingwood last year. Spangher played 56 games with 3 clubs and was the Engagement officer at Collingwood a few years ago. One of those assistants fills me with some confidence they would be of value to a head coach.

 

[the dog's kennel]

View attachment 1952963

I mean, I guess you could say they are similar. They both jump for the ball in ruck contests. That is definitely a similarity in the way Tim and Rhys go about their game.

I'm totally confused what you think those stats are proving other than Tim English is a more complete player than Rhys Stanley. They certainly don't prove Stanley plays any more physically or more strongly than English. He doesn't get more clearances or make more tackles than English.

FWIW, I agree with the other guy - I'm no Rhys Stanley expert, but I seem to recall St Kilda trying to make him a ruckman who plays a lot in the forward line - which is not dissimilar to how we play English. Stanley's certainly not some bullocking monster like Mumford. I guess yes, he's more physical than Tim English cause EVERY ruckman is more physical than Tim English. But I would suggest he's a lot closer to the English end of the ruck spectrum than the Mumford end.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Its been a nice change for me to really not care much about this one. I was angry at the time but normally after a loss like this I'd still be feeling flat the next day. Previously when we lost these close ones to Geelong I would think some combination of "Oh, we were just so unlucky! We would have won if not for that unlucky event!" or "We deserved to win that one!" or "We're the better team but we just had an off night!"

This year I have no illusions about what we are. They've always been a better team than us apart from one month in 2016. Obviously we didn't have to face them in that final series but we beat the team who knocked them out. The 5 day break evened the playing field a bit but we were always going to need a lot to go right for us to beat them. They're just so well coached and they always looked like they could go end-to-end at any minute for an easy goal.

These days I just expect us to lose to any team better or around the same mark as us, especially if it's prime time. We might win the occasional game against a decent team if it's played on a Sunday in Ballarat, but on the big stage we are serial chokers and seemingly always will be until we have a turnover in coaching staff and probably list.

I've lowered my expectations for the team too. I see us very much in a mini-rebuild mode for a year or two. The annoying thing is that Sanders cost us this year's 1st rounder as well so there's no upside at all to a so-so year.

 

[glenashley]

Agree to disagree.
Yes, Scott has Bevos measure, that’s for sure. But I can easily see Geelong finishing top 4. Last year was a down year for them but let’s not forget they won a flag 2 years ago.

They have a very solid list, two of the best KPFs, the leagues best defender, and a very good young midfield surrounded by some old heads.

Not to mention the best coach in the league and a shithole home ground advantage.

True.

Though a big factor, same with the lions, is home ground advantage has them finishing 2-3 spots higher than they should most seasons.

Cats have made 7 prelims since 2011 and converted that to 1 flag. I reckon they'd be pretty frustrating to follow.

 

[hutchy31]

Since the start of 2023, we are now 1-6 for matches decided by single-digit figures and have lost the last 6...

R4 2024 lost to Geelong by 4 points
R23 2023 lost to West Coast by 7 points
R22 2023 lost to Hawthorn by 3 points
R20 2023 lost to GWS by 5 points
R18 2023 lost to Sydney by 2 points
R11 2023 lost to Gold Coast by 7 points
R4 2023 won against Richmond by 5 points

In our last 11 matches, 5 have been decided single-digit figures with all of them being losses.

You've got to make every shot at goal count.

That’s pretty disgusting. I bet expected score in the majority of those games showed we should have won them as well.

It’s been said thousands (millions?) of times on this board but goal kicking is costing us and has been for years. It’s getting to the point where I don’t expect anyone to be able to kick straight under pressure.

The goals don’t take care of themselves, apparently.

 

[glenashley]

Since the start of 2023, we are now 1-6 for matches decided by single-digit figures and have lost the last 6...

R4 2024 lost to Geelong by 4 points
R23 2023 lost to West Coast by 7 points
R22 2023 lost to Hawthorn by 3 points
R20 2023 lost to GWS by 5 points
R18 2023 lost to Sydney by 2 points
R11 2023 lost to Gold Coast by 7 points
R4 2023 won against Richmond by 5 points

In our last 11 matches, 5 have been decided single-digit figures with all of them being losses.

You've got to make every shot at goal count.

I wrote about this the end of last season.

We win half those close games we go from missing the finals to top 4.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Why do people not pick up the next Anterous!!!

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Who? I've seen several people reference a similar name, was that an MD-type poster?

 

[dogwatch]

Its been a nice change for me to really not care much about this one. I was angry at the time but normally after a loss like this I'd still be feeling flat the next day. Previously when we lost these close ones to Geelong I would think some combination of "Oh, we were just so unlucky! We would have won if not for that unlucky event!" or "We deserved to win that one!" or "We're the better team but we just had an off night!"

This year I have no illusions about what we are. They've always been a better team than us apart from one month in 2016. Obviously we didn't have to face them in that final series but we beat the team who knocked them out. The 5 day break evened the playing field a bit but we were always going to need a lot to go right for us to beat them. They're just so well coached and they always looked like they could go end-to-end at any minute for an easy goal.

These days I just expect us to lose to any team better or around the same mark as us, especially if it's prime time. We might win the occasional game against a decent team if it's played on a Sunday in Ballarat, but on the big stage we are serial chokers and seemingly always will be until we have a turnover in coaching staff and probably list.

That's roughly where I am.

2016 was a unicorn year.
I thought at the time maybe the universe had shifted, but it hadn't. Normal service has now resumed.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

A lot to like about last night. The difference for mine was the better skill execution of the Cats in the first 3 quarters.
We are talking about small moments. In particular some of our usual suspects (Treloar, Dale, Daniel ... giving away goals by fumbling or poor skills). Treloar and Dale were better in the 2nd half, though were frustrating to watch in the first half.