Sports Tonight

[Thewlis Dish]

You have to look at a few things... firstly I don't care if we get Ottens... in fact would be happy not to... so that allows us to trade the #10 pick...

Geelong are desperate for a key forward... and only have pick #16...

Richmond want 2 first round picks... perference for 2 top 12 picks listening to Wallace...

I am happy to use #10 on the best kid available... but

if Geelong really want it... who am I too stand in their way...

obviously it will cost them...

what about one of their better young midfielders (my preference would be bartel or tenace) and their third round pick for picks #10 and our 4th round pick...

remember they screwed us over for Colbert and now they have to pay for Ottens... funny how these things always come back to bite you on the arse... just like Ottens wanting more money and Richmond poaching Gasper from Sydney... just shows you always have to pay your dues...

what do you think of that???

Geelong would tell us to go south. They took Tenace at 7 and he's looked the goods, while Bartel polled 13 brownlow votes in 13 games. Considering how tight a bunch they are down at Catland, I would think they'd rather keep their young midfield group of Ablett, Johnson, Bartel, Kelly and Tenace together and happy then sacrifice one to try and land Ottens.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Geelong would tell us to go south. They took Tenace at 7 and he's looked the goods, while Bartel polled 13 brownlow votes in 13 games. Considering how tight a bunch they are down at Catland, I would think they'd rather keep their young midfield group of Ablett, Johnson, Bartel, Kelly and Tenace together and happy then sacrifice one to try and land Ottens.

So be it... now Geelong are out of the race for Ottens... what do we offer Richmond??? pick 10 and Mark Porter???

 

[Chadwiko]

as i said above, if the trade goes through it will likely be for something like pick 10 and a player like corey jones.

It now appears as if Sinclair is likely to stay with the club, which is good, but also means i dont know how we can get both ottens and simmonds. oh well, cant be greedy

 

[King Corey]

You have to look at a few things... firstly I don't care if we get Ottens... in fact would be happy not to... so that allows us to trade the #10 pick...

Geelong are desperate for a key forward... and only have pick #16...

Richmond want 2 first round picks... perference for 2 top 12 picks listening to Wallace...

I am happy to use #10 on the best kid available... but

if Geelong really want it... who am I too stand in their way...

obviously it will cost them...

what about one of their better young midfielders (my preference would be bartel or tenace) and their third round pick for picks #10 and our 4th round pick...

remember they screwed us over for Colbert and now they have to pay for Ottens... funny how these things always come back to bite you on the arse... just like Ottens wanting more money and Richmond poaching Gasper from Sydney... just shows you always have to pay your dues...

what do you think of that???

The most intelligent post I've read for ages. Well done RB96.

If you look at most premiership sides in the last 10 years, you have much better odds building a solid spread of talent with some homegrown stars or smart (not necessarily big) trades thrown in to get you something extra.

Sides that have mortgaged their list to get some player they are infatuated with have not generally gone on to do much damage at the business end.

Why are we getting so desperate at the moment? I love the suggestion above, we provide that much needed pick for the Cats and net some of their onball talent in the process. Win-win-win.

Sheedy shows how it should be done - look at the way they creep into trades as the 3rd party and got pick 6 last year or McPhee+Cupido the year before. Genius.

 

[Event Horizon]

Why are we getting so desperate at the moment? I love the suggestion above, we provide that much needed pick for the Cats and net some of their onball talent in the process. Win-win-win.

The problem is that it's the talls we really need. Sure, a classy midfielder is always nice but that's not where our main problems lie.

Geelong is in the same boat to some extent. Yes they developed a talented young group that seems to be going places yet their prelim loss further underlined that they won't win a flag with their current list. Talls are all important when it counts, and that's why Geelong are after Ottens, and so are we for that matter.

Wells, Harris, Motlop, Simpson, Grant, Harvey, Grima, Rawlings are not a bad blend plus if you throw in J Clayton, Trotter and Michael Stevens that can all play a role next year I am happy enough with that mix. The ruck and KPs are a real issue though and that is something that we all have known for some time...

 

[Ausgard]

5 Years is a step in the wrong direction. It is simply too long - 3 years really should be the maximum we would offer anyone - even if every year we bump up the contact another year with an appropriate increase in salary for their efforts.

Plus it could put a wedge in the playing group with some players asking for longer Contracts because Simmonds has one.

This all begins to make me a little nervous - it seems my excitement for the draft has been short lived

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

I was asking whether or not Ottens would accept a trade to us. Rawlings didn't accept a trade to anyone other than North, so I don't see the comparison. We have no other way of getting Ottens than via trade, so it's entirely dependant on whether or not Ottens would be willing to be traded to North assuming we strike a deal with the Tigers.

If North are prepared to pay the same what Geelong are willing for Ottens and Ottens says no isnt that a manipulation of the draft and under AFL rules not allowed?

Didnt the rawlings deal fall over last year because North couldnt come up with a deal to satisfy Hawthorn? Rawlings say in where he wanted to go didnt have any bearing.

The only way Ottens can get out of playing for North is if he puts say 500k on his head and you guys say no, but in saying that I doubt Geelong would be willing to pay 500k aswell, then Ottens would end up at Sydney which isnt what he wants.

Kangaroos would have to be in the prime seat for Ottens services I think.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

one out of left feild for you guys to ponder over!
Ottens to North.
we gain pick 10 plus a 2nd rnd pick[no higher than pick25.meaning you.ll have to do a trade with a 3rd club] and Mcintosh?

Cheers!

 

[Ausgard]

one out of left feild for you guys to ponder over!
Ottens to North.
we gain pick 10 plus a 2nd rnd pick[no higher than pick25.meaning you.ll have to do a trade with a 3rd club] and Mcintosh?

Cheers!

Too much

from our perspective it would be McIntosh and a 2nd rounder for Ottens because we see a lot in Hamish.

The Tigers wouldn't accept it because Hamish hasn't done anything yet so it won't happen.

Pretty much 1st round draft picks don't get traded in the first 2 years because the team they are currently with always values them more than other teams

 

[Thewlis Dish]

If North are prepared to pay the same what Geelong are willing for Ottens and Ottens says no isnt that a manipulation of the draft and under AFL rules not allowed?

Didnt the rawlings deal fall over last year because North couldnt come up with a deal to satisfy Hawthorn? Rawlings say in where he wanted to go didnt have any bearing.

The only way Ottens can get out of playing for North is if he puts say 500k on his head and you guys say no, but in saying that I doubt Geelong would be willing to pay 500k aswell, then Ottens would end up at Sydney which isnt what he wants.

Kangaroos would have to be in the prime seat for Ottens services I think.

A player has to agree to any trade, as he has to sign an agreement. The only way we are going to obtain Ottens is via trade, so I am wondering if he would sign an agreement to be traded here over Geelong.

 

[nananana catman]

You have to look at a few things... firstly I don't care if we get Ottens... in fact would be happy not to... so that allows us to trade the #10 pick...

Geelong are desperate for a key forward... and only have pick #16...

Richmond want 2 first round picks... perference for 2 top 12 picks listening to Wallace...

I am happy to use #10 on the best kid available... but

if Geelong really want it... who am I too stand in their way...

obviously it will cost them...

what about one of their better young midfielders (my preference would be bartel or tenace) and their third round pick for picks #10 and our 4th round pick...

remember they screwed us over for Colbert and now they have to pay for Ottens... funny how these things always come back to bite you on the arse... just like Ottens wanting more money and Richmond poaching Gasper from Sydney... just shows you always have to pay your dues...

what do you think of that???

Not much. We can deal with another club to get a first round draft pick, and I cant really see how we screwed you over for Colbert, our captain walked out on us and we wanted some compensation? How rude!

On the Ottens thing, you have "offered" Troy Simmonds 5 years at the Roos, does that mean A) You are less interested in Ottens than Smmonds?
B) Are out of the Running for him if Simmonds says yes, C) Have a stack load of cash and can get both?

also, how do you intend to get your extra first round pick?

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Too much

from our perspective it would be McIntosh and a 2nd rounder for Ottens because we see a lot in Hamish.

The Tigers wouldn't accept it because Hamish hasn't done anything yet so it won't happen.

Pretty much 1st round draft picks don't get traded in the first 2 years because the team they are currently with always values them more than other teams

Understands where your coming from.However from our perspective we have lost a former #2 draft pick who in ruckman terms goes is just starting to get into his prime and also a player who can play up fwd.
i wouldnt discount hamish,s name coming up in the deal if you look at it from our side of things.we will have to either trade or draft a ruckman to replace Ottens and it would make sense to me that if we could get Hamish and your pick #10 then just perhaps that may get you over the line in regards to other offers.

cheers!

 

[Rooboy 96]

Not much. We can deal with another club to get a first round draft pick, and I cant really see how we screwed you over for Colbert, our captain walked out on us and we wanted some compensation? How rude!

On the Ottens thing, you have "offered" Troy Simmonds 5 years at the Roos, does that mean A) You are less interested in Ottens than Smmonds?
B) Are out of the Running for him if Simmonds says yes, C) Have a stack load of cash and can get both?

also, how do you intend to get your extra first round pick?

yes you can trade with another club... and I would expect you to be out there talking now... but do you think Richmond will take anything worse then pick #10 and #16??? no I don't so who have you got to trade with??? the 3 basket cases that have already decided youth is the way... no... Carlton or Collingwood??? they would want the same we do for our #10 and a little more... who is left??? it is either us or don't bother... but like I said I am quite happy to just take the next best kid at 10 and let natural development run its course... your club is the one that needs to get it over the line... or as was proven this year... without a marking forward... it will be another 35 years before your next flag...

I think the other answer is "C"...

our first draft pick after the Colbert deal was 51 and we traded Mooney and Welsh as part of the deal... I would expect Geelong to be looking at a similair scenario if they got Ottens... but don't get me wrong I would do the trade again tomorrow... just to get a bloke with that much charactor to our club...

 

[Woodson]

Re: Trades

Not terribly keen on Ottens...overated and way over priced for my liking.. I know Mike Sheehan rated him thru the roof at the start of this year (more egg on Sheehans mug) but Simmonds on a 5 year contract is not a smart move... gee whiz...how much $$$$ do North want to spend on 1 player ? I like the prospect of getting Tenace from the Cats rather than Johnstone from the Dees and O'Keefe from the Swans isn't a bad idea either (he's a Calder Cannons kid) I wouldn't be surprised if North offered Turtle or perhaps Watson along with a trade second round pick to get thier man... What's Zantuck status? delisted ? on the market? would fit nicely in the #34

 

[Shinboners]

Understands where your coming from.However from our perspective we have lost a former #2 draft pick who in ruckman terms goes is just starting to get into his prime and also a player who can play up fwd.
i wouldnt discount hamish,s name coming up in the deal if you look at it from our side of things.we will have to either trade or draft a ruckman to replace Ottens and it would make sense to me that if we could get Hamish and your pick #10 then just perhaps that may get you over the line in regards to other offers.

I reckon this analysis may not be too far off.

Ottens is 24 and he'll have at least 6 and maybe as many as 10 years of footy left in him. If we are trading for him, then it's with a view that he will be holding a senior role from now on. In that case, what role is there for Hale, McIntosh, and Petrie - do we need so many talls in the side? Some might say we could use McIntosh and Hale in the two key forward posts and Petrie at CHB, and if that's the case, what happens to Brown and Chad Jones?

If we really are that desperate for Ottens, I wouldn't be that surprised if one of our young talls went to Punt Road along with our first round draft pick.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Simmonds is a better fit for us - although I'm still very hesitant about giving him a 5 year contract.

 

[Ausgard]

I reckon this analysis may not be too far off.

Ottens is 24 and he'll have at least 6 and maybe as many as 10 years of footy left in him. If we are trading for him, then it's with a view that he will be holding a senior role from now on. In that case, what role is there for Hale, McIntosh, and Petrie - do we need so many talls in the side? Some might say we could use McIntosh and Hale in the two key forward posts and Petrie at CHB, and if that's the case, what happens to Brown and Chad Jones?

If we really are that desperate for Ottens, I wouldn't be that surprised if one of our young talls went to Punt Road along with our first round draft pick.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Simmonds is a better fit for us - although I'm still very hesitant about giving him a 5 year contract.

Hmm .. when you put it that way you probably have a good point

What about Hale ?

Would you prefer McIntosh or Hale ?

To be Honest I have gone a bit cold on Hale. I wonder if the Hunt for Ottens also includes getting some credibility with the Media and a marque player as much as filling an obvious hole.

All Eggs in one basket though with ottens which makes me nervous.

I have been having a slanging match with Robin Hood for so bloody long its almost a matter or principle now that we get ottens when at the start of the day I thought it was a pretty iffy decision.

Ugh !

 

[nananana catman]

yes you can trade with another club... and I would expect you to be out there talking now... but do you think Richmond will take anything worse then pick #10 and #16??? no I don't so who have you got to trade with??? the 3 basket cases that have already decided youth is the way... no... Carlton or Collingwood??? they would want the same we do for our #10 and a little more... who is left??? it is either us or don't bother... but like I said I am quite happy to just take the next best kid at 10 and let natural development run its course... your club is the one that needs to get it over the line... or as was proven this year... without a marking forward... it will be another 35 years before your next flag...

I think the other answer is "C"...

our first draft pick after the Colbert deal was 51 and we traded Mooney and Welsh as part of the deal... I would expect Geelong to be looking at a similair scenario if they got Ottens... but don't get me wrong I would do the trade again tomorrow... just to get a bloke with that much charactor to our club...

They've only specified two first rounders as far as I can gather, people mention they want one in the top 10, but I didnt read or hear that anywhere.
If we went to them and sai we can get you two first round draft picks (say for example Essendon had agreed to trade theirs) and they said no, Stuff them! hes not worth more than that whoever you are.

We need a marking forward yes, but we arent going to get taken to the cleaners for one, especially one who is injrut prone and has a questionable character. Thompson had basically conceeded coming into the trade period we were very slim chance of getting a key forward, so I can't see him being phased if we miss. There is also the possibility of Nathan Thompson, who has expressed the possibility of playing for Geelong should he not arrange a suitable contract at the Hawks, he'll be far cheaper than Ottens to get.

Like you, we would also be happy to use our first round draft pick on a young kid, Heath Grundy popped up at pick 16 in the phantom draft and is one of the better KPP's running around in the juniors. Plus there is also Tom Hawkins in next years draft?. He's a gun CHF and will come father-son. Similar to the situation you have with Jesse Smith, a top 10 prospect for a 3rd round pick. By then, the only retirees well have had are Sanderson, Riccardi and Graham. Not too much to cry about and the oppurtunity for a flag will by no means have passed, in fact it may be better, with the likes of Tenace, Mackie, Moloney and Callan all having 2-3 years under their belts. So you can say we desperately need to trade to get a good first round pick to get Ottens because our time will pass... but that's simply not true.

 

[Shinboners]

Hmm .. when you put it that way you probably have a good point

What about Hale ?

Would you prefer McIntosh or Hale ?

That is a real toss of the coin for me.

Physically, Hale reminds me of a skinnier version of Ottens, so the question is whether we need two of them in the side. McIntosh is a big kid, so he gives us variation.

However, I have one big question mark over each of these two players. For Hale, I wonder if his body will ever fill out so that he can take the knocks. If we knew his body would build up, I'd take him over McIntosh without hesitation as I believe that Hale has a better attitude as a footballer and as a person, and I think his skills will be better. In regards to McIntosh, I think his body will be right for AFL football, but I have question marks over his mental application - as Melly017 posted in another thread (and what I've read and heard), he may not be as dedicated to his career as other players on our list.

All Eggs in one basket though with ottens which makes me nervous.

The one thing that eases my nervousness is our father-son selection. Giving away our first round draft pick in a pool that is very even after the first few selections means that this may be a good year to trade our first round pick.

I have been having a slanging match with Robin Hood for so bloody long its almost a matter or principle now that we get ottens when at the start of the day I thought it was a pretty iffy decision.

Nice work. I gave you one of those recommendation thingys for it.

 

[myboywellsy]

I have been having a slanging match with Robin Hood for so bloody long its almost a matter or principle now that we get ottens when at the start of the day I thought it was a pretty iffy decision.

Ugh !

I'M WITH YOU ALL THE WAY AUSGARD, THAT LITTLE ******** ROBIN HOOD MUST GO DOWN NOW, AND SO DOES HIS FOOTBALL TEAM. I HAVE A GUY AT MY WORK WHO ALMOST SPEAKS AS MUCH UTTER RUBBISH AS THAT BLOKE... PERHAPS ITS THE HOUR LONG TRAIN RIDE HOME FROM THE BIG SMOKE WHICH HAS AFFECTED THEM SO GREATLY. WE NEED TO GET HIM JUST SO THEY DON'T, IT MATTERS NOT THAT WHETHER HE ACTUALLY PLAYS OR NOT... AS LONG AS IT IS IN A BLUE AND WHITE VERTICAL RATHER THAN HORIZONTAL STRIPES, MY LIFE, (ALL BE IT RATHER SAD) WOULD BE COMPLETE.

forget the trade.. lets go back to his comments... they are for all intensive purposes better performed than us this year... good luck to them... they beat everyone at home and ran brisbane pretty close (not such a great effort after last week i might add) in their best year in 10 other than when we stuck it up them on a cold sunday night a few years ago, or the year before then whe we beat them by 10 goals in the final, can't really remember although those wins continue to sweeten.

our youngsters are 2-3 years behind in development depending on who you talk to... who has the most talented?? i'd say it is debateable at best

successful side... i think we have done remarkably well to remain competitive and with natural improvement and a couple of KPP youngsters we will, as we have for the last 40 years, continue to be infinetly more successful than Geelong. they are proven jibblets when it counts most, and you need only listen to the desperation of their supporters that they must get defensive and start abusing us and getting into us about our clubrooms.

but in reality it just proves the size of the inferiority complex that exists and how genuinely afraid of a team which has won 2 flags in the last 8 years which has bottomed out and rebuilt just as quickly as it has.

Robin Hood.... we are COMING, and don't ever forget it.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Nice work. I gave you one of those recommendation thingys for it.

Even the Tiger fans got stuck into Robin Hood in the end and told him to stop making up ********. Ottens wants cash and to stay in Victoria first and foremost, he can sprout crap about a team having a good chance of success after he's traded there. Nathan Brown did.

 

[Shinboners]

Even the Tiger fans got stuck into Robin Hood in the end and told him to stop making up ********. Ottens wants cash and to stay in Victoria first and foremost, he can sprout crap about a team having a good chance of success after he's traded there. Nathan Brown did.

I just think it's hilarious that Robin Hood thinks that one good finals campaign suddenly means that Geelong are destined for success.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I just think it's hilarious that Robin Hood thinks that one good finals campaign suddenly means that Geelong are destined for success.

I thought it was hilarious that Ausgard managed to spin a relevant Batman pun into the equation.

 

[Ausgard]

I thought it was hilarious that Ausgard managed to spin a relevant Batman pun into the equation.

lol

I am lucky my boss is away - I have done NO work today.

I think the best thing about this trade period is that no matter what - we have JWS

Everything else would just be a bonus.

As far as I am concerned the best thing about getting ottens would be to get the media and the "experts" to treat us seriously (plus I'd have just a tinsy winsy dig at Robin Hood )

 

[Shinboners]

As far as I am concerned the best thing about getting ottens would be to get the media and the "experts" to treat us seriously (plus I'd have just a tinsy winsy dig at Robin Hood )

Reminds me of the days before the pre-season draft when another one of those Geelong nuff nuffs was going on about how they'd steal Shane Harvey from under our noses. Of course, we got him and that nuff nuff shut up, but still, it was something of a Phyrric victory.

 

[greg]

I reckon we're in the box seat to get Ottens with our #10 pick plus just a little bit extra.

I just cannot see where a better offer will come from

The clubs below us won't want to trade their 1st rd picks for him and Geelong will have to give up two very good players to get a sniff

We already have JWS so the 1st rd pick is not as valuable to us as what it is to others this draft.

I think the Tig's would nearly take our first two picks 10, 26 if a better offer didn't come up.