Moved Thread St Kilda 2023 vs St Kilda 2009

Which Saints team/era is better

  • 2008/2009/2010 team

    Votes: 15 100.0%

  • Current team

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    15

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Murraj1966 said:
It goes way deper than just the G-Train

Prime Hamill
Luke Penny instead of Zac Dawson
Harvey with plenty left in the tank
Pre-Injury Ruined Ball
Pre-Leg Break Goose Maguire
Stephen Powell (Harvey called him the toughest player he ever played with in his book)

The only major upgrade is Michael Gardiner over Trent Knobel but GT was just a bog average coach with a gifted list whereas Ross would've gotten so much more out of them.
Click to expand...
Aussie Jones still doing his thing in 2004 as well. Was only 27yo that season.

Prime Max Hudghton as well.

The amount of talent we had on our list back then (young and old) was obscene. Those with an asterisk made at least one AA team. Half a team worth. I think 9 of them made at least two AA teams!

*Harvey
*Riewoldt
*Gehrig
*Hayes
*Goddard
*Milne
*Fisher
*Aussie
*Dal Santo
*Montagna
*Ball
Kosi
Hamill
Hudghton
Goose
Thompson
Baker
Voss
Gram
Peckett
Blake
Penny
Gwilt
X Clark
 
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catscollector said:
No you wouldn't.
Sydney and West Coast were brilliant when this 'supposedly' Super Saints team were doing their thing.
Click to expand...

Sydney and West Coast were good finals teams, but nothing unstoppable. St Kilda beat Sydney comfortably in 2004 and 2005 but by the time the Prelim in 05 rolled around had a bunch of injuries and still only just ran out of legs in the last quarter after leading. Additionally St Kilda only missed out on the GF by a kick in 2004 so yes I believe Ross would've been able to get there given his impacts with lesser lists.

Something tells me though you may have been to young to remember any of this.
 
One of the huge differences between the 2009 team and 2005 in particular was injury unavailability.

In 2009 we had Dave Misson running our high performance department and like Sydney under him in 2005, we hardly had an injury all year. Just rolled out the same team week after week after week.

Whereas in 2005 we were absolutely smashed with injuries, especially leading into the finals. Yet we were still leading that injury-free Sydney team at 3/4 time in the prelim.

If it was us who had Misson that year instead of Sydney we would have wiped the floor with them. He was freakishly good back then.
 

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Murraj1966 said:
Sydney and West Coast were good finals teams, but nothing unstoppable. St Kilda beat Sydney comfortably in 2004 and 2005 but by the time the Prelim in 05 rolled around had a bunch of injuries and still only just ran out of legs in the last quarter after leading. Additionally St Kilda only missed out on the GF by a kick in 2004 so yes I believe Ross would've been able to get there given his impacts with lesser lists.

Something tells me though you may have been to young to remember any of this.
Click to expand...
He’s just talking absolute shit in thread after thread about us.

GIF by Futurithmic
 
Murraj1966 said:
Sydney and West Coast were good finals teams, but nothing unstoppable. St Kilda beat Sydney comfortably in 2004 and 2005 but by the time the Prelim in 05 rolled around had a bunch of injuries and still only just ran out of legs in the last quarter after leading. Additionally St Kilda only missed out on the GF by a kick in 2004 so yes I believe Ross would've been able to get there given his impacts with lesser lists.

Something tells me though you may have been to young to remember any of this.
Click to expand...

Yeah you can safely ignore everything he posts, he just makes stuff up.
 
Footy_Fan2007 said:
Just goes to show you can have all the talent in the world and have nothing in the trophy cabinet to show for it.
Click to expand...
I’d say the two things that stopped us back then were

2004: Inexperience. We hadn’t played finals since 1998. And Gehrig kicking his 100th in the prelim at a time when we were absolutely wiping the floor with Port. They hadn’t even been inside 50 at that point and most of their team hadn’t had a touch. All our momentum had evaporated by the time play resumed.

2005: Injuries. Just too many to key personnel at the worst time of the year. Our injury management back then seemed abysmal.
 
Murraj1966 said:
Sydney and West Coast were good finals teams, but nothing unstoppable. St Kilda beat Sydney comfortably in 2004 and 2005 but by the time the Prelim in 05 rolled around had a bunch of injuries and still only just ran out of legs in the last quarter after leading. Additionally St Kilda only missed out on the GF by a kick in 2004 so yes I believe Ross would've been able to get there given his impacts with lesser lists.

Something tells me though you may have been to young to remember any of this.
Click to expand...

Don't patronize me.

We are talking about a football club who have virtually no success when it comes to September and here we are discussing a hypothetical scenario where they win multiple premierships.
I'm not buying it.
 

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Murraj1966 said:
If you don’t want to be patronised don’t act like a petty troll/child
Click to expand...

I'm not.
I asked you to explain why 04-05 win the premierships if Ross was in charge and your response was implying I was too young to remember that time in footy.

Remember it well. Ross took over a bloody awesome list in 07, did very little until 09-10, jumped ship and took over another strong list at the time.

Hopefully for your sake, he's as brilliant as you believe and takes this team to multiple grand finals.
Apparently this team is better than 09 so it should almost be a certainty.
 
catscollector said:
Compare the amount of top end talent 09 with today's. It's significant.
Even the ruck combo of Gardiner/King would be too much.

Riewoldt would cut loose midway through the second half.
They were a champion team who very nearly defeated both Geelong & Collingwood in consecutive grand finals.
Click to expand...
Whilst I agree obviously the 09 team was by far a better team I would take marshal any day over a ageing gardener/king
 
catscollector said:
Jesus mate!
Even your supporters don't know their own teams 😆

09 side sh*ts on 04.
Not only did they nearly knock off an all time great team, they backed it up the following year.
Click to expand...
Don’t know about shits on the 04 team had a prime Fraser Gehrig at Full forward and Harvey was still playing good football what held them back was an average coach like grant Thomas
 
Rotayjay said:
I'm on record slamming Ross Lyon as too defensive to win a premiership. Now I need to admit that Lyon is an excellent coach who can get the absolute best out of a list as long as it's not a rebuilding one. His system and methods work and he can produce top-4 finishes very reliably. Who else can just walk into a club and get the team into the top 4 within a year or two?

When it comes to the grand final losses, two of them were by very small margins and realistically it starts coming down to luck at that point - bounces of the ball and so on. He could easily be a multiple premiership coach by now.

The 2023 Saints don't seem to have any absolute stars or eye-catching players for the neutral like a Martin or Hawkins. But maybe this is their year to shine. The flag is there for the taking. It's early days, but we don't have a team like Geelong 2007-11, Collingwood 2010-11 or Hawthorn 2012-15 dominating. No one has that air of invincibility.
Click to expand...
King and Owens are going to be absolute top shelf stars imo and if you ask Philipou he will tell you he is as well.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Lyon is the best coach not to win a flag since Bob Rose.

The 2023 Saints have won a handful of games. But the 2009 Saints are far and away the best team not to win a flag in the last 25 years. Could maybe mount an argument for the Cats in 08 (although they won the year before and the year after) or the Swans in 16 but the 2009 Saints were an elite team that produced one of the great H&A seasons ever (20-2).
 
It's interesting seeing how some players improve significantly with a new coach.

Ryan Byrnes a case in point. Was probably just hanging on to his spot at the club last year, but a year later cemented himself best 22 and playing a role well.
 
Murraj1966 said:
It goes way deper than just the G-Train

Prime Hamill
Luke Penny instead of Zac Dawson
Harvey with plenty left in the tank
Pre-Injury Ruined Ball
Pre-Leg Break Goose Maguire
Stephen Powell (Harvey called him the toughest player he ever played with in his book)

The only major upgrade is Michael Gardiner over Trent Knobel but GT was just a bog average coach with a gifted list whereas Ross would've gotten so much more out of them.
Click to expand...
No way was that team better. Dal Santo hayes riewoldt Goddard Milne Montana all way too young and nowhere near their prime like in 09-10. Also Sam fisher was a star defender down back for years, plus Gardner was a gun ruck. Kozi was also a gun key forward with riewoldt.

09 would absolutely cream 04/5
 
Last edited:
aussierulesrules said:
Aussie Jones still doing his thing in 2004 as well. Was only 27yo that season.

Prime Max Hudghton as well.

The amount of talent we had on our list back then (young and old) was obscene. Those with an asterisk made at least one AA team. Half a team worth. I think 9 of them made at least two AA teams!

*Harvey
*Riewoldt
*Gehrig
*Hayes
*Goddard
*Milne
*Fisher
*Aussie
*Dal Santo
*Montagna
*Ball
Kosi
Hamill
Hudghton
Goose
Thompson
Baker
Voss
Gram
Peckett
Blake
Penny
Gwilt
X Clark
Click to expand...

Literally almost every single player you listed with your AA asterisk was a better player in 09-10 than in 2004-5….as the majority were young kids at the time. so how you believe they were better in 04-5 is odd.
 
geelong_crazy26 said:
No way was that team better. Dal Santo hayes riewoldt Goddard Milne all either way too young and nowhere near their prime like in 09-10. Also Sam fisher was a star defender down back for years, plus Gardner was a gun ruck. Kozi was also a gun key forward with riewoldt.

09 would absolutely cream 04/5
Click to expand...

Hayes was captain in 04 and Riewoldt won the AFL MVP that year so other than Goddard who had only been on the list 2 years I don’t agree that they were too young.

I agree that the 09 team would beat the 04 team based on who was coaching each at the time but the talent in the 04 team surpasses the 09 team we were just way more drilled and had actual structures in 09.
 
The 04 team had loads of talent with guys like Harvey, Jones, Gehrig, Clark, and Hamil that were not there in 09

It wasn't hardened yet though and I'm not sure just dropping Ross into the driver's seat would have made them such.
 

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