St Kilda President Andrew Bassat tees off on the AFL draft system, specifically father/son and the Northern Academies

[Elixuh]

Completely agree, which is why the Saints (and other small Melbourne clubs) need the playing field to be as level as possible outside that. There's enough unfairness already in historical inequities, no need to have more with father-son and similar.

The father/son rule isn't unequal. Every single club in the comp (more or less) has the same access. In fact it should tend in FAVOUR of clubs who have been in the league for a long time like St Kilda. The only clubs who could reasonably complain about its inequality is GCS and GWS.

The outcome may seem to create inequality but it is based on pure luck.

I've always been for the father/son rule, even before the Ashcrofts were on the radar. It sucked that Collingwood won the flag off the back of getting Daicos, but I'm OK with the concept of the rule.

 

[Bont the Lord]

Given that JUH was basically a once off then the league realized they gifted the WB the number one pick its not close.

So you're fine with pick 3 and 9? Sounds fair!

 

[Elixuh]

StKilda are in the mix with Collingwood Carlton Richmond etc for players. Brisbane are contending with GC.

Player movement isn't all geography based. But in any event it goes back to my other point that there are too many teams in Melbourne.

 

[Sully111]

The father/son rule isn't unequal. Every single club in the comp (more or less) has the same access. In fact it should tend in FAVOUR of clubs who have been in the league for a long time like St Kilda. The only clubs who could reasonably complain about its inequality is GCS and GWS.

The outcome may seem to create inequality but it is based on pure luck.

"pure luck" isn't the way to run a national sport.

What a ridiculous argument.

FMD

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Have you ever explained the father son rule to an epl or nba fan?

In my experience, they see it as laughable and can’t comprehend how such a rule exists in a professional sport.

It's staggering.

It's staggering laughable in isolation - but when you add to it the fact that the AFL introduced a Draft and salary cap to ensure equalisation, it becomes beyond the realms of imagination how utterly stupid it is.


It's like equalisation is critical to the integrity of the game.....except when some bloke happens to father a child that happens to be a boy - then suddenly equalisation isn't that important at all.

 

[Nvent]

Player movement isn't all geography based. But in any event it goes back to my other point that there are too many teams in Melbourne.

It's not but its a point of difference and a reason to move clubs. Look at Geelong they've got Danger, Jeremy Cameron and Henry of late purely for location.

 

[Elixuh]

"pure luck" isn't the way to run a national sport.

What a ridiculous argument.

FMD

I agree with the sentiment that there is something to celebrate in sons and daughters of past players being able to play for their parents' club. So I'm a proponent of the rule.

St Kilda's issue is that it is one of the smallest and commercially irrelevant clubs in a saturated market. The consequence of that is if they muck up drafts and trades etc it sets them back much more than it would a Collingwood. Collingwood completely botched its salary cap management a few seasons ago but managed to easily get out of it and then won a flag, because they're one of the biggest clubs. I guarantee if that was St Kilda it sets you back 5+ years.

 

[SeaOfFire]

"pure luck" isn't the way to run a national sport.

What a ridiculous argument.

FMD

Let's just have a round ball then ?

 

[Lingsface]

But no one has got as much money from the AFL as St Kilda. Father son is equal chance lottery, sorry your players have had girls or not very good footballing boys.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Player movement isn't all geography based. But in any event it goes back to my other point that there are too many teams in Melbourne.

I hate the Vic centric culture around footy.

But....If Brisbane need father-son and academy picks to remain competitive, and if they need to remain constantly competitive to be solvent in terms of crowds and interest - how can there be a case to have less clubs in Victoria?

Where would the clubs go if not remaining in Victoria?

Where could they prosper?

 

[Nvent]

Yes. So is father son.

And would you look at that, 2 of Stkilda's best young players were academy picks.

It's just a bit rich for the club with probably the best access to the draft over the last 25 years to start complaining about fairness.

Geelong has had access to Ablett Hawkins Scarlett for starters. Then add to that the go home/lifestyle thats netted Danger, Cameron and Henry.

 

[Sully111]

I agree with the sentiment that there is something to celebrate in sons and daughters of past players being able to play for their parents' club. So I'm a proponent of the rule.

St Kilda's issue is that it is one of the smallest and commercially irrelevant clubs in a saturated market. The consequence of that is if they muck up drafts and trades etc it sets them back much more than it would a Collingwood. Collingwood completely botched its salary cap management a few seasons ago but managed to easily get out of it and then won a flag, because they're one of the biggest clubs. I guarantee if that was St Kilda it sets you back 5+ years.

How it affects St Kilda is actually irrelevant.

Where drafting is supposed to be designed to make things fair and equal, having the team that won the flag get the best player in the draft for chump change is a completely ludicrous notion.

You're a proponent of the rule?... cool... I'm not, but again, irrelevant. If the rule is there it needs to be changed so whoever gets the Father Son pick pays a fair price for that player. How anyone can struggle to understand that blows my mind.

As usual though... the point is actually lost and it turns into an infantile "your club sucks" marathon

 

[Elixuh]

I hate the Vic centric culture around footy.

But....If Brisbane need father-son and academy picks to remain competitive, and if they need to remain constantly competitive to be solvent in terms of crowds and interest - how can there be a case to have less clubs in Victoria?

Where would the clubs go if not remaining in Victoria?

Where could they prosper?

We were competitive long before we gained access to father sons. Our two academy players who have played consistently across our good seasons from 2019 have been Harris Andrews (pick 61) and Eric Hipwood (pick 14). I would argue our success has been largely down to good drafting, trading and FA.

Any club can draft well. It is always going to be more difficult for small clubs in a saturated market, like St Kilda, to convince players why they should choose the Saints over the 9 other teams in the region.

 

[stavro#4]

I agree with the sentiment that there is something to celebrate in sons and daughters of past players being able to play for their parents' club. So I'm a proponent of the rule.

St Kilda's issue is that it is one of the smallest and commercially irrelevant clubs in a saturated market. The consequence of that is if they muck up drafts and trades etc it sets them back much more than it would a Collingwood. Collingwood completely botched its salary cap management a few seasons ago but managed to easily get out of it and then won a flag, because they're one of the biggest clubs. I guarantee if that was St Kilda it sets you back 5+ years.

What!?!

Collingwood have had their fair share of draft stuff ups.

They have been bailed out by the quality of father sons that hasn’t hurt their assets or sides to claim.

Finlay Macrae over Max Holmes
Jaidyn Stephenson over Aaron Naughton
Matt Scharenberg over Christian Salem
Nathan Freeman over Dom Sheed/Patrick Cripps

BUT

they get gifted Nick Daicos, Darcy Moore, Isaac Quaynor for nothing

Imagine if they had to acquire a top 5 pick for Daicos. They probably don’t win the 23 flag.

 

[bergholt]

The father/son rule isn't unequal. Every single club in the comp (more or less) has the same access.

Same access doesn’t mean fair outcomes. It’s a lottery. The point of the draft and equalisation is to make it possible for clubs to come back from being historically unsuccessful. This undermines that.

 

[Pistol Night]

What!?!

Collingwood have had their fair share of draft stuff ups.

They have been bailed out by the quality of father sons that hasn’t hurt their assets or sides to claim.

Finlay Macrae over Max Holmes
Jaidyn Stephenson over Aaron Naughton
Matt Scharenberg over Christian Salem
Nathan Freeman over Dom Sheed/Patrick Cripps

BUT

they get gifted Nick Daicos, Darcy Moore, Isaac Quaynor for nothing

Imagine if they had to acquire a top 5 pick for Daicos. They probably don’t win the 23 flag.

We’re you this upset when Cal Brown, Tyler Brown and Will Kelly were stinking it up for us?

 

[Elixuh]

How it affects St Kilda is actually irrelevant.

Where drafting is supposed to be designed to make things fair and equal, having the team that won the flag get the best player in the draft for chump change is a completely ludicrous notion.

You're a proponent of the rule?... cool... I'm not, but again, irrelevant. If the rule is there it needs to be changed so whoever gets the Father Son pick pays a fair price for that player. How anyone can struggle to understand that blows my mind.

As usual though... the point is actually lost and it turns into an infantile "you're club sucks" marathon

No its not. No other 'national sporting competition' has over half the teams in effectively the same city and most of the draftable talent coming from that region. Every single year, including years where we had the top draft picks, the Lions have to cross the names of a number of Vic draftees off their draft list because we get told in the player meetings that they have no interest in moving interstate. And when interstate teams by necessity have to have a large % of players from Vic (because that is where the talent is) it is never going to be equal.

It is really a vic centric idea that the draft is equal. It isn't.

 

[Elixuh]

Same access doesn’t mean fair outcomes. It’s a lottery. The point of the draft and equalisation is to make it possible for clubs to come back from being historically unsuccessful. This undermines that.

See my comment below about the draft. It is really a vic centric idea that the draft is equal. It isn't.

 

[bergholt]

I agree with the sentiment that there is something to celebrate in sons and daughters of past players being able to play for their parents' club. So I'm a proponent of the rule.

Name a situation where the parent’s club couldn’t have just drafted the players in an open draft, if they believed so much in the romance of it?

They can always play for their parent’s club. The father son rule is about giving them a discount to make it easier.

 

[CarterS]

No doubt at all we've gotten pretty lucky with the Ashcroft boys.

 

[bergholt]

See my comment below about the draft. It is really a vic centric idea that the draft is equal. It isn't.

Totally, which is why I support the Qld and NSW academies. But it not being equal already isn’t an argument for making it more unequal.

 

[stavro#4]

We’re you this upset when Cal Brown, Tyler Brown and Will Kelly were stinking it up for us?

Nice job of deflecting.

I don’t care that clubs have access to academies or father sons.

Pay market value - that’s the issue

 

[Nvent]

We’re you this upset when Cal Brown, Tyler Brown and Will Kelly were stinking it up for us?

Travis Cloke or Heath Shaw.

 

[Nvent]

No its not. No other 'national sporting competition' has over half the teams in effectively the same city and most of the draftable talent coming from that region. Every single year, including years where we had the top draft picks, the Lions have to cross the names of a number of Vic draftees off their draft list because we get told in the player meetings that they have no interest in moving interstate. And when interstate teams by necessity have to have a large % of players from Vic (because that is where the talent is) it is never going to be equal.

It is really a vic centric idea that the draft is equal. It isn't.

That's not true.

 

[Elixuh]

Totally, which is why I support the Qld and NSW academies. But it not being equal already isn’t an argument for making it more unequal.

My view is the competition is so unequal and will never be equal that the only way to bridge it is to create bespoke inequalities geared towards certain teams. It'll never be perfect but this idea of creating equality in the traditional way is misguided IMO.