St Kilda President Andrew Bassat tees off on the AFL draft system, specifically father/son and the Northern Academies

[BurnUp]

The Lions being able to draft Levi Ashcroft for a handful of beans this year is ridiculous. All clubs should have to pay fair value for their F/S selections.

It was ridiculous when Tom Hawkins was drafted at pick 41 in the 2006 draft and nothing has changed.

Apart from the stupid Nintendo points system they have concocted.

Lol.

You have no clue about anything

 

[Daka]

I don't agree with him in terms of it just favouring the rich clubs.

but 100% agree with him that the Academy & F/S is not fair & hurts the draft.

 

[mpal6]

Billings instead of Bont
McCartin instead of Petracca

Any amount of woe is us isn't going to solve the above issues. Not to mention giving contracts to stop gaps like Hanneberry etc.

 

[Vikingnz]

Not to sound like a broken record, but people need to accept the AFL is an entertainment product, not a competitive sporting league.

It creates a better product to have sons play at the clubs their father's did - in a competitive league, no way would these concessions exist.

Just like it creates a better product to play the grand final in front of 100,000 people every year. Or have big clubs play in prime time. Or any of the other myriad iniquities.

 

[Wargreymon90]

That speech was a bit incoherent.

But I agree that the father son rule is a joke. I have still never heard a good argument for it to exist.

 

[bergholt]

Either you have equalisation or you don't. You guys want an EPL style free-for-all where only a few clubs can win a flag? The more of this crap you put in, the more it moves towards that.

 

[beside the seaside]

Billings instead of Bont
McCartin instead of Petracca

Any amount of woe is us isn't going to solve the above issues. Not to mention giving contracts to stop gaps like Hanneberry etc.

He actually said we've been the cause of our own issues by stuffing up picks regularly.

It doesn't mean the father son and academy systems aren't flawed. Obviously they benefit your side a lot at the moment so you're going to stand up for them.

 

[Bald]

Haven’t the Dogs won a flag in the last 8 years? What advantages do we have that aren’t available to the Saints? Do they have a zone/academy area? Are their former players not capable of having children?

 

[beside the seaside]

Haven’t the Dogs won a flag in the last 8 years? What advantages do we have that aren’t available to the Saints? Do they have a zone/academy area? Are their former players not capable of having children?

He said we've messed up picks and trading. Just wants teams to pay a fair price for the father sons and academy players. Obviously you'll defend them though because they've been awesome for you.

 

[blaisee]

Father Son is such an odd thing to whinge about given the randomness of it.

Sometimes it works out (Daicos x 2, Ashcroft, Hawkins etc), other times sons don’t want to play for Dad’s club (Dunkley, Marc Murphy etc) and other times they are just low risk busts (at Lions, Shane Morrison, Josh Clayton) and other times they don’t make the grade (Casey Voss and no doubt many others) or you have a lot of players having girls.

Doubt you’d also find many northerners complaining about NGA’s either for legitimate kids that clubs put development into like Essendon have done with the kid they’ll pick up.

That's a really considered rational view

Problem is, it can't be taken seriously considering that you have got the Ashcroft brothers for F ALL

The NGA and Father son system is a farce, the fact that clubs have 1st rights of refusal on players is already way too much, but the fact that they persist in getting them at a discount is just a disgrace, amateur hour.

 

[TP86]

Would it be less objectionable if there was no special draft mechanic to access father son - if a F/S is the best player in the draft then give up what it takes to trade for pick 1.

BUT - once acquired by the F/S club, the player doesn't come under the salary cap or something like that. A 25% salary cap discount maybe.

So pay fair price at the draft but then get the F/S discount on total player payments.

 

[Wargreymon90]

Would it be less objectionable if there was no special draft mechanic to access father son - if a F/S is the best player in the draft then give up what it takes to trade for pick 1.

BUT - once acquired by the F/S club, the player doesn't come under the salary cap or something like that. A 25% salary cap discount maybe.

So pay fair price at the draft but then get the F/S discount on total player payments.

Why are we giving this hypothetical player special treatment in the first place? They’re not entitled to it.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

the competition is full of inequalities, Melbourne teams get the ultimate advantage of have a home grand final

??

Essendon, St Kilda, Bulldogs, and Carlton don't get a Home GF.

THe Bulldogs literally just played a 'Home' final at Hawthorn's Home ground didn't they?

 

[Daka]

That speech was a bit incoherent.

But I agree that the father son rule is a joke. I have still never heard a good argument for it to exist.

Imagine if this rule was in the NBA, and your son is a future star NBA star best in the draft by a long shot gets to club of his choice.

Dell Curry played for different NBA teams than his son Steph, I don't see what the big deal is playing for another team. it might be different in America in terms of just playing for whatever the amount of money, but AFL is certainly heading to a more movement $$ base anyway.

The AFL likes to copy all the American Sports in the way they do things than have things that completely contradict it.
It's the same as having Compensation Picks for "Free Agency" it completely goes against the world term free agency.

 

[TP86]

Why are we giving this hypothetical player special treatment in the first place? They’re not entitled to it.

I would happily bin off all special mechanics - priority picks, academies, zones, father-son. If you want a player badly enough, trade up. Hawthorn's 08-15 run was built on doing exactly that by trading two good players for the pick that became Luke Hodge, but could've also easily been Chris Judd or Luke Ball (or Jimmy Bartel) in 2001.

But the father-son rule has been around in some form for more than 70 years of VFL/AFL and thus the entirety of the AFL/national competition. The AFL can justifiably point to not messing with the 'fabric of the game' by leaving some form of F/S rule in place.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Would it be less objectionable if there was no special draft mechanic to access father son - if a F/S is the best player in the draft then give up what it takes to trade for pick 1.

BUT - once acquired by the F/S club, the player doesn't come under the salary cap or something like that. A 25% salary cap discount maybe.

So pay fair price at the draft but then get the F/S discount on total player payments.

The Father-Son rule is the most idiotic thing in world sport.

It has absolutely zero place in modern sport. Makes no sense whatsoever.


To be honest, it staggers me that anybody would give even the remotest **** if a son plays for the team his father played for decades ago. I mean, wtf gives a shit about that? What's the relevance?

Clubs wear different jumpers than they used to, they train at different grounds to what they used to, and they play at different grounds to what they used to.

Yet we for some reason, think it's important that a son gets to (not forced to, mind you) choose if they want to play for the same club that his dad used to???


Let me ask this...would people be so supportive of this shit rule if UBS were forced to select Father-Sons in the Draft? Even they were rubbish, what if you had to pay overs for them? Cause you know, it's apparently important that a kid gets to play where his dad did and all.

 

[Wargreymon90]

Imagine if this rule was in the NBA, and your son is a future star NBA star best in the draft by a long shot gets to club of his choice.

Dell Curry played for different NBA than his son Steph, I don't see what the big deal is playing for another team. it might be different in America in terms of just playing for whatever the amount of money, but AFL is certainly heading to a more movement $$ base anyway.

The AFL likes to copy all the American Sports in the way they do things than have things that completely contradict it.
It's the same as having Compensation Picks for "Free Agency" it completely goes against the world term free agency.

Have you ever explained the father son rule to an epl or nba fan?

In my experience, they see it as laughable and can’t comprehend how such a rule exists in a professional sport.

 

[Wargreymon90]

I would happily bin off all special mechanics - priority picks, academies, zones, father-son. If you want a player badly enough, trade up. Hawthorn's 08-15 run was built on doing exactly that by trading two good players for the pick that became Luke Hodge, but could've also easily been Chris Judd or Luke Ball (or Jimmy Bartel) in 2001.

But the father-son rule has been around in some form for more than 70 years of VFL/AFL and thus the entirety of the AFL/national competition. The AFL can justifiably point to not messing with the 'fabric of the game' by leaving some form of F/S rule in place.

I see what you’re saying. But the game isn’t what it was 70 years ago. It’s harder than ever to rebuild through the draft and that is only going to get harder with expansion teams coming in. It’s probably a luxury the game can’t afford anymore.

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

Wow, I hope all these F/S haters one day know what it means to feel joy...far out

 

[TheEscapeClub]

The Lions being able to draft Levi Ashcroft for a handful of beans this year is ridiculous. All clubs should have to pay fair value for their F/S selections.

It was ridiculous when Tom Hawkins was drafted at pick 41 in the 2006 draft and nothing has changed.

Apart from the stupid Nintendo points system they have concocted.

Of course it's changed .When Jon Brown got drafted by the Lions there was an uproar. The eligibility rules were 50 games by the father, his dad played 51. The AFL subsequently changed it to 100 games.

Geelong then got Hawkins and there was an uproar, led by the Western Bulldogs. So the bidding system was introduced. Ironically, the first club affected by this was the Dogs when they drafted Liberatore and Wallis.

It may be too late but St Kilda could potentially have an awesome AFLW side because all their stars of the 80s, 90s and 00s had heaps of daughters.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

we haven't had any father sons until now, say hi to jack for me you pelican

Jon Brown?

 

[Daka]

The AFL also changes the rules when it suits them & clubs have missed out on limited-access academy players.
Northern clubs are spoon fed, the game would be in much better shape if free agency was gone, and the draft was open no academy or f/s rubbish. fairer for all clubs.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

I would happily bin off all special mechanics - priority picks, academies, zones, father-son. If you want a player badly enough, trade up. Hawthorn's 08-15 run was built on doing exactly that by trading two good players for the pick that became Luke Hodge, but could've also easily been Chris Judd or Luke Ball (or Jimmy Bartel) in 2001.

But the father-son rule has been around in some form for more than 70 years of VFL/AFL and thus the entirety of the AFL/national competition. The AFL can justifiably point to not messing with the 'fabric of the game' by leaving some form of F/S rule in place.

No priority picks in that time period?

 

[piesaregreat]

F/S is a lottery of genetics and the ability to play/desire to play football at the highest level
All teams except GWS and GC have equal access to it, those two get academy concessions instead
St Kilda would complain far less if ex players had sons instead of daughters
Any discussion that is fact based about points bidding accumulation of picks etc should be welcomed

Any club that has spent most of the last 70 years at the bottom of the competition probably has some other reasons for the lack of success

 

[captain blood 17]

Flip side to this. He wanted changes this year. Tigers had worked themselves into a position pick wise for the last 2 years to deal with Carlton for the Campo twins and Brisbane. Now, we had no idea we would have the year we had clearly, but, this knuckle head is only focused on the top when clubs down the bottom had been working on this stuff for two years. His changes would of disadvantaged us and others as well. He didn’t think it through to well to be honest.