There's also the Bervin Woods (Collingwood 1950) story, and it even tops Fred Phillips in the brevity stakes!: https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/players/bervin-woods/
Stats questions
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Some other short tenures were Jack Cashman who resigned 2 games into 1934 at Fitzroy and Ian Stewart who quit three games into 1977 at Carlton (don't ask).
- Dec 17, 2006
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Ben Brown was a member of Melbourne's premiership team last night having transferred from North Melbourne at the end of last season. Of course while the Demons enjoyed premiership glory, a dismal season from the Kangaroos saw them finish with the 2021 wooden spoon.
Are there any other players like Brown, who changed clubs and won a premiership with their new team in their first season, while their old team finished last? Or are there any reverse cases, a player leaving a club only for it to win the flag the following season, while the new club finishes at the bottom of the ladder?
Are there any other players like Brown, who changed clubs and won a premiership with their new team in their first season, while their old team finished last? Or are there any reverse cases, a player leaving a club only for it to win the flag the following season, while the new club finishes at the bottom of the ladder?
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Gary Ablett 2011 for the reverse case
North park
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The most recent instance was only two seasons ago. Tom Lynch transferred from Gold Coast to Richmond in 2019. He played in Richmond's premiership team, while Gold Coast finished with the wooden spoon.
Greg Wells "half" did this in 1980-81. In 1980, Wells played 12 games for Melbourne and then transferred to Carlton after Round 13 playing a further 10 games for the Blues that year. In 1981, Melbourne finished with the wooden spoon, while Wells, in his first full season for Carlton, played in their premiership team.
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
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What's the most recent VFL/AFL season that has seen all of its players die since that season ended?
Conversely, what's the most distant VFL/AFL season with at least one living former player?
Conversely, what's the most distant VFL/AFL season with at least one living former player?
New club won flag, old club finished last
| Season | Club | Player | Ladder | Next | New Club | Played in GF |
| 2020 | N.M. | Brown, Ben | 17th | 2021 | Melb | Yes |
| 2018 | G.C. | Lynch, Tom | 17th | 2019 | Rich | Yes |
| 2013 | St.K | McEvoy, Ben | 16th | 2014 | Haw | Yes |
| 1996 | Melb | Sampson, Clay | 14th | 1997 | Adel | Yes |
| 1996 | Melb | Ormond-Allen, Trent | 14th | 1997 | Adel | No |
| 1984 | St.K | Pirrie, Stephen | 12th | 1985 | Ess | No |
| 1980 | Melb | Wells, Greg T. | 9th | 1981 | Carl | Yes |
| 1972 | S.M. | Walsh, Wayne | 11th | 1973 | Rich | Yes |
| 1909 | St.K | Jackson, Jim | 10th | 1910 | Coll | No |
Old club won flag, new club finished last
| Season | Club | Player | Ladder | Next | New Club |
| 2018 | Rich | Ellis, Corey | 3rd | 2019 | G.C. |
| 2018 | Rich | Miles, Anthony | 3rd | 2019 | G.C. |
| 2013 | Haw | Savage, Shane | 1st | 2014 | St.K |
| 2012 | Haw | Gilham, Stephen | 2nd | 2013 | GWS |
| 2010 | Geel | Ablett junior, Gary | 3rd | 2011 | G.C. |
| 2006 | Geel | Kingsley, Kent | 10th | 2007 | Rich |
| 1998 | N.M. | Freeborn, Glenn | 2nd | 1999 | Coll |
| 1996 | Adel | Pesch, Nick | 12th | 1997 | Melb |
| 1994 | Carl | Cavedon, Andrew | 5th | 1995 | Fitz |
| 1992 | Ess | Considine, Ed | 8th | 1993 | Syd |
| 1992 | Ess | Werner, Michael | 8th | 1993 | Syd |
| 1990 | Haw | Dickson, Robert | 5th | 1991 | Bris |
| 1990 | Haw | Curran, Peter | 5th | 1991 | Bris |
| 1980 | Carl | Young, Michael | 4th | 1981 | Melb |
| 1980 | Carl | Catoggio, Vin | 4th | 1981 | Melb |
| 1974 | N.M. | Pagan, Denis | 2nd | 1975 | S.M. |
| 1972 | Rich | Moore, Eric Ronald | 2nd | 1973 | S.M. |
| 1968 | Rich | Campbell, Blair | 5th | 1969 | Melb |
| 1952 | Coll | Coghlan, Kevin | 2nd | 1953 | Haw |
| 1949 | Ess | Newton, Ken | 1st | 1950 | Haw |
| 1943 | Fitz | Powell, Les M. | 3rd | 1944 | Geel |
| 1943 | Fitz | Patman, Ralph | 3rd | 1944 | Geel |
| 1943 | Fitz | McHenry, Bob | 3rd | 1944 | Geel |
| 1943 | Fitz | Brown, Doug | 3rd | 1944 | Geel |
| 1938 | Melb | Reiffel, Lou | 5th | 1939 | S.M. |
| 1938 | Melb | McNamara, Pat | 5th | 1939 | S.M. |
| 1937 | Carl | Collard, George | 5th | 1938 | S.M. |
| 1937 | Carl | Farrelly, Pat | 5th | 1938 | S.M. |
| 1927 | Coll | Hughson, Les W. | 1st | 1928 | Haw |
| 1926 | Coll | Barker, Fred | 2nd | 1927 | Haw |
| 1925 | Melb | Donnelly, Gerry | 3rd | 1926 | N.M. |
| 1913 | Carl | Don, Wally | 6th | 1914 | Univ |
| 1911 | Ess | Anderson, Ramsay | 1st | 1912 | Univ |
| 1898 | Fitz | McCabe, Dick | 1st | 1899 | St.K |
According to my db... Carlton 1949
1930 is the most recent full season where every player from every club has a date of death, however there are only 13 seasons where every player is accounted for, and only one 1897-1912 (1905).
Much harder to be accurate as not all players have dates of death recorded where they are obviously deceased (e.g. played 100+ years ago).
Jim Miller (Footscray 1938) is listed by Wiki as having turned 100 in 2019.
Billy Leahy (Footscray 1934) b.1911 has no D.O.D. and is possible but unlikely.
Here are the players without a DOD from the 1930's who are possibly still alive.
1930 - 0
1931 - 1 Fred Coulsell (NM 1905) NB If Fred is still alive, he'd be among the 30 oldest humans ever recorded. I'm sure we'd have heard about it!
1932 - 1 Alan Ryan (Me 1909)
1933 - 2 Alan Ryan (Me 1909), Ron Fisher (St 1911)
1934 - 4 Alan Ryan (Me 1909), Ron Fisher (St 1911), Ken McKernan (NM 1911), Billy Leahy (Fo 1911)
1935 - 7 Alan Ryan (Me 1909), Ron Fisher (St 1911), Ken McKernan (NM 1911), Billy Leahy (Fo 1911), Alf Neeson (Fi 1914), Bill Hearn (Ri 1914), George Prismall (Es 1915)
1936 - 4 Alan Ryan (Me 1911), Ron Fisher (St 1911), Ken McKernan (NM 1911), Billy Leahy (Fo 1911), Alf Neeson (Fi & Ha 1914)
1937 - 3 Alan Ryan (Me 1911), Ron Fisher (St 1911), Alf Neeson (Fi & Ha 1914)
1938 - 4 Alan Ryan (Me 1911), Ron Fisher (St 1911), Alf Neeson (Fi & Ha 1914), Jim Miller (Fo 1919)
1939 - 3 Keith Rae (Ca 1917), Brendon O'Donnell (St 1917), Jim Miller (Fo 1919)
Edit: Wiki says Keith Rae became the oldest living player in 2017, so that counts out all seasons prior to 1938.
Most of my data is from australianfootball.com.
Last edited:
GrahamClayton
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Has a physio/trainer ever pulled up injured while sprinting on to the field to treat an injured player?
This arguably belongs in a different statistical category, but my mate's dad was the Hawthorn club doctor in the 80s and we watched him slip over in the mud at Junction Oval one day.
Expanding on this... most recent teams with X deceased players
Players | Year | Round | Club | Team |
1 | 2016 | 23 | Frem | 22 |
2 | 2004 | 22 | Melb | 22 |
3 | 1991 | 11 | Melb | 20 |
4 | 1982 | 17 | St.K | 20 |
5 | 1973 | 17 | Geel | 20 |
6 | 1973 | 22 | Geel | 20 |
7 | 1973 | 14 | Geel | 20 |
8 | 1968 | 13 | Rich | 20 |
9 | 1966 | 13 | Rich | 20 |
10 | 1966 | 14 | Rich | 20 |
11 | 1966 | 2 | Rich | 20 |
12 | 1965 | 1 | Rich | 20 |
13 | 1963 | 15 | Rich | 20 |
14 | 1962 | 13 | Rich | 20 |
15 | 1962 | 14 | Rich | 20 |
16 | 1960 | 18 | Carl | 20 |
17 | 1959 | 8 | Carl | 20 |
18 | 1958 | 13 | Carl | 20 |
19 | 1954 | 6 | Carl | 20 |
20 | 1952 | 10 | Ess | 20 |
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There's been quite a lot of twins play in the AFL over the years, but does anyone know which twins have the longest gap between the brothers' respective debuts?
One set of twins that came to mind was the Atkins twins. Simon made his debut for the Bulldogs in Round 2 1987 against the Swans in Sydney, but Paul did not debut until Round 23 1992, when he played for the Sydney Swans in a thrashing by the Brisbane Bears at Carrara. That same weekend Simon played his 89th game for the Bulldogs against the Eagles. Paul would play just two senior games, while Simon played 127 games for Footscray and 41 for Fitzroy.
Another example was the Febey twins. Steven made his debut in Round 7 1988 against Hawthorn, but Matthew did not play his first game until he debuted for Melbourne against Fitzroy in Round 15 1992. In the same Melbourne team Steven played his 85th senior game.
One set of twins that came to mind was the Atkins twins. Simon made his debut for the Bulldogs in Round 2 1987 against the Swans in Sydney, but Paul did not debut until Round 23 1992, when he played for the Sydney Swans in a thrashing by the Brisbane Bears at Carrara. That same weekend Simon played his 89th game for the Bulldogs against the Eagles. Paul would play just two senior games, while Simon played 127 games for Footscray and 41 for Fitzroy.
Another example was the Febey twins. Steven made his debut in Round 7 1988 against Hawthorn, but Matthew did not play his first game until he debuted for Melbourne against Fitzroy in Round 15 1992. In the same Melbourne team Steven played his 85th senior game.
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
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What's quite anomalous about that is the Wakelin twins moving from St Kilda to different clubs at 2000's end.
GrahamClayton
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Would someone be able to tell me what is the record for the most number of players to kick a goal for a VFL/AFL team in the same season?
By no means final answer, but Melbourne in 1979 had 34 different players kick a goal.
Melbourne won their finals matches by margins of 33, 83 and 74 this year for an aggregate of 190. Where does this rank in terms of premiership teams? Essendon in 2000 and Geelong in 2007 would be two obvious premiers whose aggregates exceed Melbourne's.
And what are the highest aggregates for teams who won four finals to become premiers?
And what are the highest aggregates for teams who won four finals to become premiers?
Amazingly that they are all from North West Tasmania and where born just under 8 months apart.
Atkins twins born December 68 and Febey twins in August 69
Across two finals victories:
157 Essendon 1984
129 Melbourne 1957
123 Richmond 1934
118 Essendon 1985
117 Hawthorn 1988
110 Melbourne 1960
104 Melbourne 1948
100 Geelong 1952
Across three finals victories:
230 Essendon 2000
230 Geelong 2007
190 Melbourne 2021
172 Essendon 1949
170 Collingwood 1990
169 Richmond 1969
Across four finals victories:
98 Western Bulldogs 2016
74 Adelaide 1997
These are the only two instances of four finals victories.
38 St.Kilda 1980, Carlton 1990, Essendon 1994
37 Essendon 1992, Essendon 2007
36 Essendon 1983, Collingwood 1986, Melbourne 1986, Essendon 2010
35 - 13 teams
I got a question about list sizes each season.
In the draft era you basically have a limit on how many players you can have on your club list (including rookie lists) which around now, apart from Gold Coat assistance package giving them a bigger rookie list at the moment, all clubs have a limit of 44.
But prior to the draft era I really want to know was their an exact maximum limit each club could have each season.
Good example is when clubs had senior, reserve and under 19's teams in the 1970's and early 80's did clubs actually have an official list maximum or was it simply a case as have as many players as you want?
In the draft era you basically have a limit on how many players you can have on your club list (including rookie lists) which around now, apart from Gold Coat assistance package giving them a bigger rookie list at the moment, all clubs have a limit of 44.
But prior to the draft era I really want to know was their an exact maximum limit each club could have each season.
Good example is when clubs had senior, reserve and under 19's teams in the 1970's and early 80's did clubs actually have an official list maximum or was it simply a case as have as many players as you want?
Where can I get individual players stats from the 2021 Grand Final from the time Bontempelli kicked his 3rd goal.
Stats from 11:10 remaining in the 3rd quarter plus stats from the entire last quarter. Both sides.
Stats from 11:10 remaining in the 3rd quarter plus stats from the entire last quarter. Both sides.
Some awful news... Ron the Bear has sadly passed on, according to posters he knew well. One of Bigfooty's finest users, and his contributions will be missed greatly
That is truly horrible news. I had the occasional chat behind the scenes with Ron and found him very likeable, while the work he did on this board was just fantastic.
