Stats questions

[RedmanWasHere]

Thanks. Someone told me otherwise.

Someone (I think Basil Zempilas) tweeted a photo featuring himself and the 2 but I can't find it.

Must've been part of Musk's mass deletion.

 

[Cuzz09]

what's the least amount of wins at game 50 or 100?

some Eagles/North guys racking up horrible records

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[ioppolo]

what's the least amount of wins at game 50 or 100?

some Eagles/North guys racking up horrible records

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Early GWS & GC regulars might be thereabouts

 

[Cuzz09]

Early GWS & GC regulars might be thereabouts

true. gws prob levelling out slowly.

gc still in the minus no doubt

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[Randall Stevens]

what's the least amount of wins at game 50 or 100?

some Eagles/North guys racking up horrible records

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For the ‘worst ever’ win % with a 50 game minimum you have to go right back to the earliest years of the VFL.
St Kilda player Ted Hall won only one game in his 73 game career, with that win coming in his 63rd game.

 

[Connor7395]

Richo on 7 asked the question if anyone had scored 3 goals quicker than Crisp and said I wonder if JK would know, ie Josh Kay aka SirSwampthing.

Came back from a commercial break and near end of the next segment said Swamp has just come up with the answer, Brad Miller in 2004, 2 minutes 18 seconds. Didn't say how much of game clock time that was.

Its this game Melbourne v Richmond Rd 17 2004

AFL Tables only introduced time stamps in 2001 so who knows if there was a quicker 3 goals is years prior to AFL Tables time stamping things.

AFL Tables - Richmond v Melbourne - Sun, 25-Jul-2004 2:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

Brad Ottens behind	6m 17s​	5.5.35 - 6.3.39​
		5.5.35 - 7.3.45​	8m 11s​	Brad Miller goal
		5.5.35 - 8.3.51​	9m 8s​	Brad Miller goal
		5.5.35 - 9.3.57​	10m 29s​	Brad Miller goal

Didak was 2 minutes 41 seconds.

AFL Tables - Collingwood v West Coast - Sat, 3-Jul-2010 7:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

Alan Didak goal	20m 13s​	14.9.93 - 5.6.36​
Alan Didak goal	21m 47s​	15.9.99 - 5.6.36​
Alan Didak goal	22m 54s​	16.9.105 - 5.6.36​

Found Brad Miller's two minutes of fame.

First goal: Set shot, goal. Clock stops at 14:21.
Second goal: Clearance, inside fifty, spoiled to Jeff White, handballed over to Miller, goal. Clock stops at 13:58.
Third goal: Clearance, inside fifty, Miller leads, gets free kick from having arms chopped, goal. Clock stops at 13:43.

Now I can't tell if this is a timekeeping issue or if this was how it was done, but Miller got the free kick and the clock stopped at 13:46. It didn't start again until after the umpire signalled the goal, then it ran for three more seconds and stopped. Late in the quarter, the time kept running between a tackle and a ball up in Richmond's forward 50.

So technically only 38 seconds of clock time passed for Miller's goals.

 

[emuboy]

The 1989 VFL season was one of the strangest. There were some very high-scoring teams around this era and quite a number of games played this year had aggregates over 250 points, some over 300. However, it was also a very wet winter all across Australia, with a number of weekends complete washouts, with low-scoring contests on waterlogged grounds in inclement weather. Throw in some odd fixturing and very different results between the same teams just weeks apart, and it all looks very odd.

In Round 5 1989 Richmond defeated North Melbourne 26.15-171 to 20.14-134 in a very high scoring game, this following another shootout between the pair in 1988 - and just one of a number of high scoring matches between the Tigers and the Kangaroos from the late 1980s, through the 1990s and into the early 2000s. Richmond's 26.15-171 set a record for the highest score ever by the eventual wooden-spooner, and 35 years on no other bottom team has bettered or equaled it.

Six weeks later in Round 11, the Richmond Tigers met the Brisbane Bears in teeming rain at the MCG. The Tigers beat the Bears 5.15-45 to 3.8-26 in a strange game in that Brisbane kicked 3 goals all in the first term - all to Brad Hardie - but none for the rest of the match.

I was wondering if the 3.8-26 kicked by the Brisbane Bears against Richmond is a record low score kicked against a wooden spoon team? Pre 1920 there would no doubt be scores like this in a lower scoring era, but for 1920 onwards if the Bears of 1989 don't have the lowest score against a bottom-placed opponent, then which team does and when?

 

[the croucher]

The 1989 VFL season was one of the strangest. There were some very high-scoring teams around this era and quite a number of games played this year had aggregates over 250 points, some over 300. However, it was also a very wet winter all across Australia, with a number of weekends complete washouts, with low-scoring contests on waterlogged grounds in inclement weather. Throw in some odd fixturing and very different results between the same teams just weeks apart, and it all looks very odd.

In Round 5 1989 Richmond defeated North Melbourne 26.15-171 to 20.14-134 in a very high scoring game, this following another shootout between the pair in 1988 - and just one of a number of high scoring matches between the Tigers and the Kangaroos from the late 1980s, through the 1990s and into the early 2000s. Richmond's 26.15-171 set a record for the highest score ever by the eventual wooden-spooner, and 35 years on no other bottom team has bettered or equaled it.

Six weeks later in Round 11, the Richmond Tigers met the Brisbane Bears in teeming rain at the MCG. The Tigers beat the Bears 5.15-45 to 3.8-26 in a strange game in that Brisbane kicked 3 goals all in the first term - all to Brad Hardie - but none for the rest of the match.

I was wondering if the 3.8-26 kicked by the Brisbane Bears against Richmond is a record low score kicked against a wooden spoon team? Pre 1920 there would no doubt be scores like this in a lower scoring era, but for 1920 onwards if the Bears of 1989 don't have the lowest score against a bottom-placed opponent, then which team does and when?

Yes, I think you are correct.
A glance through the 1920-2023 years didn't find any instance to beat it.

 

[worbod]

With Sydney losing by 112 points this weekend, is anybody able to state how many times the team on top of the ladder has suffered a 100-point loss? Fitzroy defeating North Melbourne by 150 points in round 13, 1983 is surely the highest such margin.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

how many times in AFL history have there been two identical percentages between teams at the end of the season, were they the same points for and against? I don't believe two teams have had the same percentage AND shared the same amount of wins.

I asked Copilot but it lied to me

 

[North park]

On Saturday, we had all 5 away teams win their games, which is slightly unusual.

What is more unusual, and possibly unique, is that all 5 teams won their games in an "away" state - West Coast in Tasmania, GWS in Queensland, Geelong in WA, and Gold Coast and Port Adelaide in Victoria.

Has anything like this happened before?

 

[emuboy]

At the end of Round 8 this year played on the last weekend of April and a third of the way into the season, Melbourne had 5 wins and a percentage of 126.1, the Demons in fourth position and looking to have another good Olympic year. Hawthorn in contrast sat second last with just 1 victory so far - this over lowly North Melbourne - and a poor percentage of 69.9, this not helped by the 17th placed Hawks getting a 76-point caning from the Sydney Swans on the Sunday afternoon.

Fast forward four months and to the end of the season, and Melbourne with 11 wins have missed the finals, their final percentage 98.5. The Dees will finish either 13th or 14th depending on the result of the Carlton vs. St Kilda match later today. Hawthorn on the other hand have won 14 games to make the finals, their percentage improving to 118.5 at season's end.

From a lead of 4 wins and 27 percent at the end of April, Melbourne will finish the season 3 games and 20 percent behind the Hawks. Has there been other cases of a team dramatically leapfrogging an opponent to this extent, especially so far into the season?

 

[emuboy]

One of bottom-placed Richmond's two wins this year was against minor premier the Sydney Swans.

I know there are no cases of the eventual premier losing to the eventual premier since way back in 1992. This was a win by the Sydney Swans over the West Coast Eagles early that year at the SCG, and the Eagles didn't end up topping the ladder in any case.

Does anyone know the last time before this that the team that finished last on the ladder beat the team that finished first on the ladder at some point during the season, regardless of whether the minor premiers went on to win the Grand Final? I can't think of any recent examples, so I'm going to look pretty dumb if it happened in the past decade or so!

 

[ioppolo]

One of bottom-placed Richmond's two wins this year was against minor premier the Sydney Swans.

I know there are no cases of the eventual premier losing to the eventual premier since way back in 1992. This was a win by the Sydney Swans over the West Coast Eagles early that year at the SCG, and the Eagles didn't end up topping the ladder in any case.

Does anyone know the last time before this that the team that finished last on the ladder beat the team that finished first on the ladder at some point during the season, regardless of whether the minor premiers went on to win the Grand Final? I can't think of any recent examples, so I'm going to look pretty dumb if it happened in the past decade or so!

I know this doesn't answer your question, but do you remember when a winless Collingwood beat an undefeated West Coast in 2005?

 

[emuboy]

I know this doesn't answer your question, but do you remember when a winless Collingwood beat an undefeated West Coast in 2005?

I remember that game from 2005, with last-placed Collingwood beating the top team the West Coast Eagles. It wasn't the first time this had happened to West Coast - the Eagles lost a top vs. bottom clash in the last round of 1991 against Fitzroy. In both cases this win saved the Lions and the Magpies from the wooden spoon, and in each year the Eagles would go on to be runners-up.

No wonder I couldn't remember the last time the wooden spoon team beat the minor premier, the most recent example I could find (unless I missed one) was Collingwood's 12.10-82 to 8.8-56 victory over Carlton in Round 12 1976 at Victoria Park, with the Magpies finishing last that season and the Blues heading the ladder, although they would go out in straight sets in the finals and Hawthorn would defeat North Melbourne in the Grand Final.

Even in years where there was a mediocre minor premier (such as Fremantle in 2015) or a better than average wooden spoon team (Brisbane Lions in 2017) there were no examples of victories by the eventual bottom team over the eventual minor premiers.

 

[North park]

I remember that game from 2005, with last-placed Collingwood beating the top team the West Coast Eagles. It wasn't the first time this had happened to West Coast - the Eagles lost a top vs. bottom clash in the last round of 1991 against Fitzroy. In both cases this win saved the Lions and the Magpies from the wooden spoon, and in each year the Eagles would go on to be runners-up.

No wonder I couldn't remember the last time the wooden spoon team beat the minor premier, the most recent example I could find (unless I missed one) was Collingwood's 12.10-82 to 8.8-56 victory over Carlton in Round 12 1976 at Victoria Park, with the Magpies finishing last that season and the Blues heading the ladder, although they would go out in straight sets in the finals and Hawthorn would defeat North Melbourne in the Grand Final.

Even in years where there was a mediocre minor premier (such as Fremantle in 2015) or a better than average wooden spoon team (Brisbane Lions in 2017) there were no examples of victories by the eventual bottom team over the eventual minor premiers.

The last wooden spoon team to beat the eventual premiers was Sydney against West Coast in 1992, while the last wooden spoon team to beat the minor premiers was Collingwood against Carlton in 1976.

The last wooden spoon team to beat the minor premiers, who also claimed the premiership, was Footscray against Richmond in 1967.

It is ironic that the 1967 and 1992 'records' will be updated (and reversed) if Sydney goes on the win the 2024 premiership.

 

[emuboy]

The last wooden spoon team to beat the eventual premiers was Sydney against West Coast in 1992, while the last wooden spoon team to beat the minor premiers was Collingwood against Carlton in 1976.

The last wooden spoon team to beat the minor premiers, who also claimed the premiership, was Footscray against Richmond in 1967.

It is ironic that the 1967 and 1992 'records' will be updated (and reversed) if Sydney goes on the win the 2024 premiership.

If the Sydney Swans are premiers, it will be the second time in history that a two win Tiger team finishing last has beaten the eventual premier, the other being Richmond over Melbourne in Round 17 1960. Richmond wooden spoon teams have some amazing statistics as follows:

1960 - Tigers lose to second-last North Melbourne in one of the lowest scoring games played post WW1, Kangaroos 5.12-42 to Tigers 3.8-26.

1987 - A 76-point win by Richmond over St Kilda late in the season is the biggest ever win by a wooden spoon team and remains the record close to 40 years later. The previous record was 75-points in 1983, by St Kilda over Richmond!

1989 - Richmond kick the highest ever score by a wooden spoon team, 26-15-171 in winning a very high scoring match against North Melbourne (20.14-134). Six weeks later, Richmond hold the Brisbane Bears to the lowest ever score kicked against a wooden spoon team post WWI, the Bears kicking 3.8-26 to 5.15-45 on a muddy MCG in constant heavy rain.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

The last wooden spoon team to beat the eventual premiers was Sydney against West Coast in 1992, while the last wooden spoon team to beat the minor premiers was Collingwood against Carlton in 1976.

The last wooden spoon team to beat the minor premiers, who also claimed the premiership, was Footscray against Richmond in 1967.

It is ironic that the 1967 and 1992 'records' will be updated (and reversed) if Sydney goes on the win the 2024 premiership.

I was unaware of that , Footscray at the Western Oval had a pretty good record in the 60s and 70s when they were a lowish team against both Rich and in particular Carlton who were both powerhouse teams at the time

I actually went the year after in 1968 , my father took me to a Foot v Geel game at the Western Oval , Foot would have been 2nd or 3rd last and Geel were 2nd or 3rd , and Footscray won by about 13 goals . I cant remember/recall 1 second of play of the 2nd , 3rd or final qtrs . But i can picture myself in the 1st qtr , hff Barkly St end outer side , and Footscray had just kicked their 6th or 7th goal , and the crowd reaction ( bit of shock ) and Geel hadnt scored , and typically there was a gale blowing

Geel in 1963 won the flag , Fitzroy won the Wooden Spoon , they only won one game , they beat Geel at Brunswick St , i think they wrote a book about that

 

[Wallaby]

Geel in 1963 won the flag , Fitzroy won the Wooden Spoon , they only won one game , they beat Geel at Brunswick St , i think they wrote a book about that

That as one of the State games in 1963 - Geelong were missing Doug Wade, one or 2 others, and coach Bob Davis. Fitzroy were missing Captain Coach Kevin Murray.

 

[Catsace]

That as one of the State games in 1963 - Geelong were missing Doug Wade, one or 2 others, and coach Bob Davis. Fitzroy were missing Captain Coach Kevin Murray.

The only game Fitzroy won in Murray's coaching tenure for those two seasons. And he was in the state side so didn't play! So a 0-34 record for Kevin, maybe the likes of Yze can take solace in that!

 

[emuboy]

The elimination of the Western Bulldogs by Hawthorn tonight means again there cannot be a Western Bulldogs vs. Carlton final for this year. It was unlikely and would have required both to make the Grand Final, but again this most elusive of finals combinations which has come so close so many times or seen one team make the finals at the expense of the other has not come to pass in 100 years of play between the two clubs.

 

[Cuzz09]

The elimination of the Western Bulldogs by Hawthorn tonight means again there cannot be a Western Bulldogs vs. Carlton final for this year. It was unlikely and would have required both to make the Grand Final, but again this most elusive of finals combinations which has come so close so many times or seen one team make the finals at the expense of the other has not come to pass in 100 years of play between the two clubs.

that's a good stat

only like 70 years to go for no derby GF

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[emuboy]

that's a good stat

only like 70 years to go for no derby GF

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It's amazing that today the fourth final between Sydney and GWS is being played today (after finals matches in 2016, 2018, 2021) since the Giants entered in 2012, yet there has been no Western Derby final, one SA Showdown final in 2005 and no Q-Clash finals either.

Hawthorn and Brisbane (either the Lions or the Bears) have never met in a final either to date although the Hawks did play Fitzroy in finals on several occasions, nor have Carlton and Hawthorn met in any final since the 1988 second semi final, remarkable given how many finals these teams played against each other in the 1970s and 1980s.

Has there ever been a Port Adelaide vs. Carlton final or a finals meeting between Carlton and Geelong since the 1995 Grand Final? I don't recall any.

I don't think there has been a Port Adelaide vs. Sydney final nor a 'State of Origin' final between the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions since 2003. Hard to believe that babies born around this time will this month be celebrating their 21st birthdays!

 

[Falconista]

It's amazing that today the fourth final between Sydney and GWS is being played today (after finals matches in 2016, 2018, 2021) since the Giants entered in 2012, yet there has been no Western Derby final, one SA Showdown final in 2005 and no Q-Clash finals either.

Hawthorn and Brisbane (either the Lions or the Bears) have never met in a final either to date although the Hawks did play Fitzroy in finals on several occasions, nor have Carlton and Hawthorn met in any final since the 1988 second semi final, remarkable given how many finals these teams played against each other in the 1970s and 1980s.

Has there ever been a Port Adelaide vs. Carlton final or a finals meeting between Carlton and Geelong since the 1995 Grand Final? I don't recall any.

I don't think there has been a Port Adelaide vs. Sydney final nor a 'State of Origin' final between the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions since 2003. Hard to believe that babies born around this time will this month be celebrating their 21st birthdays!

There has been Port vs Sydney- 2003.

I think all current clubs (bar Gold Coast for obvious reasons) have played Sydney or Geelong in a final. Not surprising considering, for the last 30 years, they're there most of the time.

 

[emuboy]

There has been Port vs Sydney- 2003.

I think all current clubs (bar Gold Coast for obvious reasons) have played Sydney or Geelong in a final. Not surprising considering, for the last 30 years, they're there most of the time.

I remember the Port vs Sydney final in 2003 - what a great win by the Swans.

Strangely enough, with Geelong and Sydney themselves when they met in the 2005 semi-final, it was the first Swans vs. Cats final in 71 years since South Melbourne trounced Geelong in the 1934 finals series. They are also the most recent foundation clubs to play each other in a GF for the first time, this in 2022.

One of the oddest finals records is that of Richmond and St Kilda. After 1913, the Saints played just 4 finals in 3 finals appearances (1918, 1929, 1939) in 48 years up to 1961, their only finals win in this time against the Tigers in the 1939 first semi final. Both teams were completely missing from the finals for the entire decade of the 1950s (along with the Swans), but would play in the same finals series in a number of years in the early 1970s, the Saints beating the Tigers in the 1971 PF, and the Tigers over the Saints in the 1973 FS. However they never played in a Grand Final, the Saints the only one of the existing teams at Richmond's 1908 admission that the Tigers have never played in a Grand Final. There was also no Richmond vs. St Kilda GF in the Reserves or Under 19s either, this along with North Melbourne vs St Kilda the only GF combination that never came up at any level.

After 1973 Richmond and St Kilda were not in the same finals series for 47 years, until 2020 when the Tigers beat the Saints in a semi-final, the Saints narrow win a week earlier preventing the first ever Richmond vs. Bulldogs final. But since then, the Saints and Tigers have again not been in the same finals series.