Opinion Stephen Silvagni

[thebluenewdeal]

Second year I think. Although, the AFL might have suspended last year because of COVID and the reduction in the salary cap. If the AFL suspended last year, it means that we are in the first year of a 3 year period where we can spend the 5% over the cap.

That’s fair, if it’s the first then we’re in a good place to front load the most important pieces.

 

[FRUMPY]

What’s tipped you?
a). Pick 8 involved
b). 5 years to a 27yo in 2021
c). Contract value ~$3M
d). Type of player
e). All of the above

I didn't really know parts B and C but the pick 8 and type of player. Now watching him running himself and us into trouble and shit one-on-one shits me. Does put in effort though

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk

 

[Ricky Mott]

The touhy decision still baffles me like when they didn't want to pay Eddie but happy to pay Thomas with a bad ankle

Does that mean someone at the club will stick their nose in and offer Touhy a contract when he’s washed up like Betts?
Good to see Sos gets blamed for the Thomas contract as well.
Won’t be long before he gets blame for giving up pick 8 for Saad and not telling the club Williams has no endurance and paying him 900k to play HB.

 

[Arr0w]

I still don't like the recruitment of Saad

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Yeap, said as much at the time

These sort of trades are understandable/viable if you have already cemented yourself as a top 8/contending side, not where we were last year.

There were better targets for this type, at a fraction of the cost

 

[RPCB]

I find our supporters saying Williams and Saad are both on $800-900k a year baffling. Many of the same supporters were telling everyone who would listen until they were blue in the face that it’s all media bullshit and we aren’t going to pay them $800-900k a year back in the trade and free agency period. Why have agendas all of a sudden changed?

 

[smashbox gill]

I'm pretty comfortable with where we are at list wise with Austin/Agresta..
They obviously have a plan and are sticking to it, last years trade draft period was super impressive.

Doubt many could say that they are disappointed with the trade of Williams, Saad and Fogarty.
Or aren't excited to see the growth of Durdin, Carroll & Parks..

Durdin Pick 37, Carroll Pick 41 and Parks Rookie Draft, we smashed it imagine what we could do with decent picks.

SOS was a favourite son and tried his best, until the end..
He may go down in history as an average list manager and A grade LaLa..
But hope not, he is one of the greatest Carlton FC players of all time..

SOS had a Job where he was up against it from the start.. Without getting more time than he actually got, he was always going to be up against it.
Had to start a team with some good players and the rest from scratch.

He had to really nail every pick and hope they developed into a decent AFL player, to complete the rebuild in 66 games..
At the end of the day 66 games was a ridiculous target, which set SOS and Co up to fail.
They ultimately failed through, trying to push to quickly and missing trade targets and poor drafting choice

People saying sos was an average list manager. The man turned lachie Henderson into Harry McKay and Tom Bell and a 2nd into Charlie Curnow.. yeah real average

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Does that mean someone at the club will stick their nose in and offer Touhy a contract when he’s washed up like Betts?
Good to see Sos gets blamed for the Thomas contract as well.
Won’t be long before he gets blame for giving up pick 8 for Saad and not telling the club Williams has no endurance and paying him 900k to play HB.

SOS wasn't there for Thomas I wasn't putting him in that and I wouldn't of bought Eddie back - and I don't like spending 1.5 million on two half back flankers .. out of all SOS decision I didn't like the touhy sale- as far as his drafting goes all clubs have players that don't fulfil potential ..

 

[Gethelred]

People saying sos was an average list manager. The man turned lachie Henderson into Harry McKay and Tom Bell and a 2nd into Charlie Curnow.. yeah real average

There's more to list management than dealing with other clubs to maximise your draft hand. SOS was absolutely terrific there, and any club who can obtain his services should use him near exclusively as their trader during the predraft/free agency periods.

But you've also got to have good talent ID, to be able to keep the players (and their managers) feeling valued whilst keeping the books balanced. You've got to ensure that the list itself has both enough of each player type to compensate for injuries to each position, and you've got to have the potential for growth across the field. And you've got to keep an awful lot of different people happy while doing it.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I still really like the Saad pickup. Watching us get stuck in the back half last season was horrible and that has been addressed by Saad and also the game changing which we couldn’t have known. The reason it doesn’t look like a good pickup has nothing to do with him but instead the fact no one has stepped up in the midfield imo. As posted above Williams doesn’t have the tank to be a full time mid. Interestingly enough I did hear sos saying this on trade radio which is funny because he recruited players with this weakness too but he has been proven to be absolutely right with Williams. Still a very good pickup but we just need him to be a chop out not one of the main guys.

 

[Gethelred]

I still really like the Saad pickup. Watching us get stuck in the back half last season was horrible and that has been addressed by Saad and also the game changing which we couldn’t have known. The reason it doesn’t look like a good pickup has nothing to do with him but instead the fact no one has stepped up in the midfield imo. As posted above Williams doesn’t have the tank to be a full time mid. Interestingly enough I did hear sos saying this on trade radio which is funny because he recruited players with this weakness too but he has been proven to be absolutely right with Williams. Still a very good pickup but we just need him to be a chop out not one of the main guys.

It also doesn't help that he's clearly playing injured.

I didn't want to pick him, but judging him on how he's playing when he can't run properly is a shit thing to do.

 

[The Bighouse]

It also doesn't help that he's clearly playing injured.

I didn't want to pick him, but judging him on how he's playing when he can't run properly is a sh*t thing to do.

Maybe a few factors but the knee was free on the w/end from the heavy strapping of the previous weeks. At least that’s a good sign of tracking in the right direction for better mobility.

He is getting caught out for some poor defending, which needs improvement. No getting much clean run / disposal from him either.

 

[Accidental genius]

Saad is the type of player we needed.
Saad and Williams off the half backline, should be our major strength.
But of course Teague's obsessed with Williams in the middle

Despise Saad's price, pick 8 (Cox) for Saad we got reamed and Saad and Williams salaries reek of desperation

Beggars can’t be choosers. Which top end talent in recent times nominated a trade to Carlton. Hence we had no choice but to pay slight overs for saad Williams etc. these recruits aren’t a bit problem. I’d be focussing on other aspects like training and development. We just don’t have too many young players staking their claim.

 

[jj1978]

Saad and Williams both playing injured for sure, although happy to see Saad didn't play with that tape against Brisbane so hopefully he's coming good. Problem with Williams is he's a soft tissue man so working on his fitness/sprints would have to be restricted to a capacity. Maybe he'll realise after a full year of midfield that he's best placed in the team to be a part time mid and help out the backline more moving forward.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Beggars can’t be choosers. Which top end talent in recent times nominated a trade to Carlton. Hence we had no choice but to pay slight overs for saad Williams etc. these recruits aren’t a bit problem. I’d be focussing on other aspects like training and development. We just don’t have too many young players staking their claim.

Behind closed doors Coniglio, Papley, Wines & Oliver..

Glad we got them. But, don't think we did needed to pay the $, we did for Saad and Williams.

I've been a supporter of Austin and Co since draft night, best thing that has happened to our football department for a while.
Also obviously you haven't read all my other posts (Don't blame you )
I'm a strong advocate for for change in football department, Lloyd/ Judd, assistant coaches, and we should have a major focus on player development.

 

[Accidental genius]

Behind closed doors Coniglio, Papley, Wines & Oliver..

Glad we got them. But, don't think we did needed to pay the $, we did for Saad and Williams.

I've been a supporter of Austin and Co since draft night, best thing that has happened to our football department for a while.
Also obviously you haven't read all my other posts (Don't blame you )
I'm a strong advocate for for change in football department, Lloyd/ Judd, assistant coaches, and we should have a major focus on player development.

I do wonder if those players were realistically considering a move or just using us to leverage their contracts elsewhere. Thinking it was the latter.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Saad and Williams both playing injured for sure, although happy to see Saad didn't play with that tape against Brisbane so hopefully he's coming good. Problem with Williams is he's a soft tissue man so working on his fitness/sprints would have to be restricted to a capacity. Maybe he'll realise after a full year of midfield that he's best placed in the team to be a part time mid and help out the backline more moving forward.

Really hope they figure out his not a full time Midfielder quickly.
We not only play players out of position, we even draft players in to play them out of position.

GWS figured it out and played him midfield in patches.
Also yes their midfield was stacked. But if he was a pure midfielder they would have played him there because he has great skills.

We have the opportunity to have one of the best back 7 in the comp with skill, speed, flare and experience

Docherty - Jones - Parks
Williams - Weitering - Saad

7th Defender - Newman

Let's hope Teague and Co work that out. Time is ticking

 

[TENACIOUS]

I do wonder if those players were realistically considering a move or just using us to leverage their contracts elsewhere. Thinking it was the latter.

Conilio - Possibly, most likely in hindsight

But,
Papley - Nominated us publicly, SOS couldn't get it done
Wines & Oliver - Sam McClure said on footy classified "that they both contacted us wanting to come, Oliver even met with Teague", we already committed to other players (Wines - Paperly & Oliver - Saad & Williams) and didn't have the collateral to get it done

 

[Accidental genius]

Conilio - Possibly

But,
Papley - Nominated us publicly
Wines & Oliver - Sam McClure said on footy classified "that they both contacted us wanting to come, Oliver even met with Teague"

ok.

I guess you never know the reasoning behind players decisions to move but reckon oliver in particular would have been absolutely kicking himself if he did move considering how well dees are currently going.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Conilio - Possibly, most likely in hindsight

But,
Papley - Nominated us publicly, SOS couldn't get it done
Wines & Oliver - Sam McClure said on footy classified "that they both contacted us wanting to come, Oliver even met with Teague", we already committed to other players (Wines - Paperly & Oliver - Saad & Williams) and didn't have the collateral to get it done

How could we have gotten papley done (plus he was in contract)?
Also, same to the others? Wines and Oliver would have cost us 2 x 1sts plus plenty of cash. Plus we needed their clubs to agree as they were both in contract from what I remember. So papley, Wines and Oliver were never going to get done.

 

[gbatman]

Things are Starting to click for Carlton and the SOS era after all the criticism is starting to look a little better than first thought.

SOS Selections
Silvagni
Dow
O'Brien
Kennedy
McKay
McGovern
DeKoning
Kemp
Walsh
Plowman
Martin
Marchbank
Weitering
Newman
Fisher
Cuningham
Curnow
Philp
Honey
Owies
Cottrell

Other Clubs
SPS
Stocker
Phillips
Setterfield


Austin Selections
Motlop
Cerra
Williams
Fogarty
Acres
Hollands
Carroll
Durdin
Cowan
Pittonet
Hewett
Lemmy
Binns
Young
Boyd
Durdin
Cincotta
O'Keefe
Akuei
Saad
Mirkov

Other (Hughes/Rogers)
Cripps
Docherty
Curnow


I think we can say SOS did alright. Recruited a lot of players due to huge list turnover requirements and into a club that was a poor environment to develop players at the time. Was restricted to only drafting types who would fit into and help build a good culture and was restricted to age as well.

I think Austin is doing well but has the advantage of the better mature age players wanting to come here which is really good. We have been a destination club.

I think it's taken a while to get some of the SOS selections playing well. Good coaching and building strong leadership and standards has taken a while and many of them have been slow burns or waiting for a good team to play in.

Either way that's 33 pretty good AFL quality players and handful of decent depth and developing talent.

 

[jd2010]

Things are Starting to click for Carlton and the SOS era after all the criticism is starting to look a little better than first thought.

SOS Selections
Silvagni
Dow
O'Brien
Kennedy
McKay
McGovern
DeKoning
Kemp
Walsh
Plowman
Martin
Marchbank
Weitering
Newman
Fisher
Cuningham
Curnow
Philp
Honey
Owies
Cottrell

Other Clubs
SPS
Stocker
Phillips
Setterfield


Austin Selections
Motlop
Cerra
Williams
Fogarty
Acres
Hollands
Carroll
Durdin
Cowan
Pittonet
Hewett
Lemmy
Binns
Young
Boyd
Durdin
Cincotta
O'Keefe
Akuei
Saad
Mirkov

Other (Hughes/Rogers)
Cripps
Docherty
Curnow


I think we can say SOS did alright. Recruited a lot of players due to huge list turnover requirements and into a club that was a poor environment to develop players at the time. Was restricted to only drafting types who would fit into and help build a good culture and was restricted to age as well.

I think Austin is doing well but has the advantage of the better mature age players wanting to come here which is really good. We have been a destination club.

I think it's taken a while to get some of the SOS selections playing well. Good coaching and building strong leadership and standards has taken a while and many of them have been slow burns or waiting for a good team to play in.

Either way that's 33 pretty good AFL quality players and handful of decent depth and developing talent.

If you think about how badly Hughes did in the 7 years prior, it was always going to be a long and painful rebuild. 66 games was far too bullish and probably detrimental because we did go for some quick fixes in McGovern and Williams too soon when realistically 2022-now is the time for a complete reset of the prior mess to be ready to compete.

We burnt a few people along the way trying to get their a bit quicker than was possible without AFL handouts

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think what it shows is how overrated teams depth is when you are playing well or underrated players can be when the side is not performing. A lot of our players who are looking good atm would look crap at somewhere like North or West Coast and I’m sure plenty of players in the past who we thought were no good would look a lot better playing for us the last two months.
We see it time and time again with successful sides where all of a sudden they look to have 30 plus really good players then when the side drops away so do they.

SOS done his job and setup the core really well and Austin looks to be rounding the list out nicely. Both jobs are equally hard, plenty of sides have a good core and can’t round out the list and plenty of sides struggle to build a core good enough to contend.

 

[Juddalenko]

Things are Starting to click for Carlton and the SOS era after all the criticism is starting to look a little better than first thought.

SOS Selections
Silvagni
Dow
O'Brien
Kennedy
McKay
McGovern
DeKoning
Kemp
Walsh
Plowman
Martin
Marchbank
Weitering
Newman
Fisher
Cuningham
Curnow
Philp
Honey
Owies
Cottrell

Other Clubs
SPS
Stocker
Phillips
Setterfield


Austin Selections
Motlop
Cerra
Williams
Fogarty
Acres
Hollands
Carroll
Durdin
Cowan
Pittonet
Hewett
Lemmy
Binns
Young
Boyd
Durdin
Cincotta
O'Keefe
Akuei
Saad
Mirkov

Other (Hughes/Rogers)
Cripps
Docherty
Curnow


I think we can say SOS did alright. Recruited a lot of players due to huge list turnover requirements and into a club that was a poor environment to develop players at the time. Was restricted to only drafting types who would fit into and help build a good culture and was restricted to age as well.

I think Austin is doing well but has the advantage of the better mature age players wanting to come here which is really good. We have been a destination club.

I think it's taken a while to get some of the SOS selections playing well. Good coaching and building strong leadership and standards has taken a while and many of them have been slow burns or waiting for a good team to play in.

Either way that's 33 pretty good AFL quality players and handful of decent depth and developing talent.

Agree with most, but you surely can’t bold Dow as a Pick 3 hit based on his career output.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Matty Cottrell as a rookie (I think ??) was a good get for SOS.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Say what you want about Plow in his current form but he is definitely a bold/ for SOS.

Did a lot of heavy lifting in the backline whilst we were getting belted. Now won’t be around to reap the rewards. Was underrated due to his whipping boy status.

For pick 28, and as part of the deal that landed us McKay, you’d do it all over again.