Other Super Bowl 42 with Steve, Ed, SBS and Sen

[TheGreatBarryB]

Yeah, no doubt he's done some good things gg, but let's remember this was the guy who hired Art Shell 2 years ago. What a disaster of a decision. A year later he goes the complete opposite and hires a guy with very little experience. It just smacks of someone without a plan, and not much idea of what he's doing regardless of what he's done in the past.

One of the key skills required in leadership is delegation. Davis seems to lack this skill. Being owner/GM/virtual coach is too much for anyone and it seems to be reflected in the results in recent years. Why sack the Personnel executive a couple of years back, why now freeze out both Jackson and Kiffin?

You say the story re Kiffin being promised control over personnel decisions is not true but how true was the story re Kiffin sniffing around for college jobs. Or was he sniffing around after it became clear to him that Davis had already reneged on his promise?

And biggest question of all, how many decent coaches would be willing to work with Davis? Not many it seems, hence the Shell and Kiffin signings.

He has to go. Actually maybe it's better for all us non-Raider fans that he stays!!

 

[Exe Gesis]

Yeah, no doubt he's done some good things gg, but let's remember this was the guy who hired Art Shell 2 years ago. What a disaster of a decision. A year later he goes the complete opposite and hires a guy with very little experience. It just smacks of someone without a plan, and not much idea of what he's doing regardless of what he's done in the past.

One of the key skills required in leadership is delegation. Davis seems to lack this skill. Being owner/GM/virtual coach is too much for anyone and it seems to be reflected in the results in recent years. Why sack the Personnel executive a couple of years back, why now freeze out both Jackson and Kiffin?

You say the story re Kiffin being promised control over personnel decisions is not true but how true was the story re Kiffin sniffing around for college jobs. Or was he sniffing around after it became clear to him that Davis had already reneged on his promise?

And biggest question of all, how many decent coaches would be willing to work with Davis? Not many it seems, hence the Shell and Kiffin signings.

He has to go. Actually maybe it's better for all us non-Raider fans that he stays!!

Al makes mistakes, no doubt.
Eg, hiring Kiffin to HC, not OC or skills coach, imo is a big mistake.
Shell version 2.0 was a mistake. No doubt.
And Davis was to blame given that he wasnt able to find a coach elsewise he liked or that those coaches turned down the Raiders due to Davis.
Sean Payton wanted to coach here, but was pulled away from it by Jones.
And Al does delegate roles!
He just overseers it all like any owner/manager in other industries do.
He just happens to also be more hands-on tho.
For good and for bad, that's just the way it is tho.
Al is Al and the Raiders will be firmly clenched in his cold dead hands before it changes.
So as a long-suffering Raider fan like myself, I understand the problem there, and that in many ways it's counter-productive, etc, but I also appreciate that it's not my team and I dont work there to perhaps be able to help. So i can only sit back and watch.
I dont like the Raiders going downhill, but I'll never abandon them or think less of Davis.
When he passes away and things change, they may not even be good. The new owners/GMs/HCs might suck hard. They may also create a new successful culture.
What happens will happen, but I'm a Raider forever either way.

 

[Woodson]

Al makes mistakes, no doubt.
Eg, hiring Kiffin to HC, not OC or skills coach, imo is a big mistake.
Shell version 2.0 was a mistake. No doubt.

Al is Al and the Raiders will be firmly clenched in his cold dead hands before it changes.
So as a long-suffering Raider fan like myself, I understand the problem there, and that in many ways it's counter-productive, etc, but I also appreciate that it's not my team and I dont work there to perhaps be able to help. So i can only sit back and watch.
I dont like the Raiders going downhill, but I'll never abandon them or think less of Davis.
When he passes away and things change, they may not even be good. The new owners/GMs/HCs might suck hard. They may also create a new successful culture.
What happens will happen, but I'm a Raider forever either way.

 

[Galactic]

NY21 NE3 ? You baked right now? How can you think the Pats would not win?
The media here are really trying to make a story out of Belichick's refusal to talk about Brady's ankle. I am heading down to Phx on Tuesday for media day. that ought to be interesting. I will see what I can find there.

Hey Steve welcome back. I'm sure your still getting over the flight. At least you get to hang out in the warm parts of the country! Anyway seeing you grew up here, Im sure its still a shock to get back into the Papa Razi/Tom Brady/ Belichick/NFL media bonanza after being in Australia where you are the minority. Notice how the spread in Vegas getting closer by the day! Hey, even I don't think the Patriots are 14 points better, but my blood pressure sure hopes they are. Be sure to watch CNBC tomorrow (SUNDAY) at 10pm est if you can for the "Touchdown!: The Patriots And The Business Of Winning" Documentary on Bob Kraft and what he did from the time he bought the franchise. CNBC has only done doc's on McDonnald's Ebay and Walmart so he's in some pretty hefty company. GG would love it It will put his "rahrahrah" theory to test
Enjoy the SB, a few guys I know, took off with their wallets full for Arizona today, I dont have such a large wallet to be spending 5-10 grand in a week, but man am I envious

 

[wyhow]

Yo
I couldn't let my man Steve have all the say in this Forum, so I decided I'd better log in. First of all, I've gotta say that I am blown away by the passion and the knowledge of so many of you guys. It's the kinda stuff that makes it fun to do a radio show. Beyond that, with regards to the Raiders, I feel that I'm getting a bit of a "Raider Hater" label which is far from the truth. I just think the club has lost its way and its focus, yet continues to present itself as some dominant, all-conquering franchise. The team is something like 19-71 since the Super Bowl appearance, yet continues to push "Commitment to Excellence" and the like, which is so far from the truth its not funny. I admire Al Davis for many things, but refusing to realise it's 2008 is not one of them. Also, with respect to Robert Kraft, he is far from a "suit with no understanding of football." Kraft played the game at Columbia (on an under 150 pound team, a sport the Ivy League schools offer) and was a long-time Patriots fan and season-ticket holder who used to go to games regularly. Many NFL owners are indeed jackasses only it for the handshakes and the praise - Kraft isn't one of them. Thanks for the opportunity to post, and as I said, can't let Steve do all the talking in here. Out.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Yo
I couldn't let my man Steve have all the say in this Forum, so I decided I'd better log in. First of all, I've gotta say that I am blown away by the passion and the knowledge of so many of you guys. It's the kinda stuff that makes it fun to do a radio show. Beyond that, with regards to the Raiders, I feel that I'm getting a bit of a "Raider Hater" label which is far from the truth. I just think the club has lost its way and its focus, yet continues to present itself as some dominant, all-conquering franchise. The team is something like 19-71 since the Super Bowl appearance, yet continues to push "Commitment to Excellence" and the like, which is so far from the truth its not funny. I admire Al Davis for many things, but refusing to realise it's 2008 is not one of them. Also, with respect to Robert Kraft, he is far from a "suit with no understanding of football." Kraft played the game at Columbia (on an under 150 pound team, a sport the Ivy League schools offer) and was a long-time Patriots fan and season-ticket holder who used to go to games regularly. Many NFL owners are indeed jackasses only it for the handshakes and the praise - Kraft isn't one of them. Thanks for the opportunity to post, and as I said, can't let Steve do all the talking in here. Out.

Hiya Ed,

You don't realize that you and Steve are highly respected and appreciated. Your opinions carry a lot of weight in my books.
I didnt seriously label you a Raider-hater, I was being facetious!
And anyway, im cooler than most with accepting and enjoying the rivalries.
It's a great part of the fabric of the whole divisional format.
On your points on the Raiders, they are in a ditch at the moment, the last 5 years, but finding the right coaches is like finding the right girlfriends or wives. It takes time sometimes after you've been thru a messy or hurtful break-up (Gruden).
I dont agree that Davis is stuck in the past, in the sense of schemes and football X and O's. In nostaligia, yes. But the tactics and philosophies he has are still used today. Air Coryell....there are many co-ordinators and coaches who use it still. Like Al Saunders formerly of Washington. Same with man defense. The Colts, for instance, run a successful vertical offense. Maybe Al has neglected the OL, but the schemes and philosophies are all there in football still.
Anyway, schemes mean nothing unless you have the players to take advantage of them, to compliment.
There are many poorly run WCO teams, for instance.
There are many Cover 2 teams who did not statistically rank better than 4-3 or 3-4 teams.
As for Kraft, well I'll concede defeat there. It was the wrong example. But Paul Allen was a good example of what I meant.
And again, still, Al Davis is one of the last breeds of Halas/Brown types, so there isn't another like him out there.
To expect or want him to be anything less or different just cant happen.
I'm totally fine with Davis tho, may he live long and get his moment in the Superbowl sun again.
But I do know that he does make mistakes and deserves criticism where it's deserved.
In regards the Lane Kiffin fiasco....he doesnt at all. That's all Lane's fault no matter which way anyone tries to spin it with all the "lacking control" theories.
We'll all know more about his treachery soon enough.
And he even was forced to admit and apologize to the team that he had betrayed them....why there was great lockeroom division in the end.

But, thanks for popping round and saying hello.
I hope you and Steve do grace us with your presence as often as possible.

 

[wyhow]

GG
Thanks for the kind, but unnecessary words. I don't disagree with your assessment of Al Davis. I am a big fan of the "old school" guys who built the NFL into what it is today. As a little kid, I grew up in Baltimore with an old man who lived and died by the Colts. Once they moved to Indy, he literally quit watching the NFL. He's come back in recent years, but is still more of a college fan. I think a healthy Raiders team is good for the league, like a healthy Collingwood is good for the AFL, a healthy Yankees good for MLB, and a healthy USC good for college football. For some reason, Al just hasn't got people around him who can help him make better decisions; or perhaps, he won't listen. And you're on the money with the modern day owner. Watching Paul Allen hoist that 12th Man flag a couple of years ago was one of the most painful things I've ever seen. Although he also owns my beloved Trail Blazers, he is essentially an "accidental tourist" who has a pile of money to throw around on sports teams. So yeah, I'm an old school guy, but I want to see the old school succeed, not fade into irrelevence.

 

[Exe Gesis]

GG
Thanks for the kind, but unnecessary words. I don't disagree with your assessment of Al Davis. I am a big fan of the "old school" guys who built the NFL into what it is today. As a little kid, I grew up in Baltimore with an old man who lived and died by the Colts. Once they moved to Indy, he literally quit watching the NFL. He's come back in recent years, but is still more of a college fan. I think a healthy Raiders team is good for the league, like a healthy Collingwood is good for the AFL, a healthy Yankees good for MLB, and a healthy USC good for college football. For some reason, Al just hasn't got people around him who can help him make better decisions; or perhaps, he won't listen. And you're on the money with the modern day owner. Watching Paul Allen hoist that 12th Man flag a couple of years ago was one of the most painful things I've ever seen. Although he also owns my beloved Trail Blazers, he is essentially an "accidental tourist" who has a pile of money to throw around on sports teams. So yeah, I'm an old school guy, but I want to see the old school succeed, not fade into irrelevence.

Wyhow, i love old school in everything too.
There was a charm about it (in any sport) that is lost in time, but thankfully not completely in certain leagues around the world and the US.
The best thing for the NFL is a strong raiders-broncos, a strong rams-niners, a strong jets-dolphins, etc.
The rivalries that have lasted decades or of bygone eras.
The raiders relocating out of oakland was very similar to the pain felt in baltimore, and caused many to abandon them for the Niners. And bad timing too, cos the Niners dynasty coincided.
Baltimore btw is a very classy and savvy fanbase, and indy too, great people there.
Long term Raiders staying in Oakland, more passionate supporter base, than LA has been for many sporting organizations, but I still think LA is a must, I wouldnt be against them moving there and becoming a top 2 franchise, but there's no harm in being a smaller passionate community like Green Bay or Pittsburgh.
I just wonder about the dual NorCal market, and the untapped LA market.
I cant see a new LA being brought in, so relocation. But who?
Cant see Minnesota going there and spoiling the divisional system.
Has to be Raiders imo.
Or the NFL brings in a bundle of new teams like LA, incorporating Canada, Mexico and some other US cities.
What are your thoughts on that?

 

[wyhow]

GG

I'll fire off a quick reply before I head out to a family bbq. LA is a very tricky market. I've lived there and I can tell you that the people are NOT crying out for the NFL. The college game - USC especially, but UCLA too - is thriving. There are also so many transplants from other US cities that the sports bars are packed with fans of the Steelers, Browns, Bills etc, who love the NFL, but couldn't give a rats about an LA team. There's even a Steelers bar that fill with about 100 people every Sunday - you'd swear you were in Western Pennsylvania. Also, as is the case with Sydney, there is the "lots of other stuff to do" factor - the beach, the movie industry, the nightclubs - which can be tough for sports teams in LA. Ever watch a Lakers' game and see the empty seats? Very superficial town that way. Dodgers' fans often hit the road in the 7th inning to avoid traffic regardless of the score. I realise these are generalisations and that as the 2nd biggest market in the US, the NFL would love to be based there, but it's a tough sell at the moment. And the most important factor (I almost forgot!) is a stadium. Until a serious plan is put into place, LA will NOT be an NFL city. As far as teams are concerned, I think you're right about the Raiders. They have the LA tradition, Oakland is a very small market and the stadium there is a disaster. Lots of interesting conjecture around the future of football in LA, that's for sure. Hey, gotta run. Happy Australia Day Monday.
Ed

 

[Exe Gesis]

Good post, dude, enjoy the family bbq!

 

[BrunnyJ]

Slim...On one of my flights over here there was a gal who would qualify as a slumpbuster...and even worse, she didn't stop talking to me. Had I known you were hanging out for one, I'd have gotten her number. There is a possibility of a Vegas stopover. If I see Jen Tilly, I will lay the groundwork for you. Do you realize she's nearly 50?

NY21 NE3 ? You baked right now? How can you think the Pats would not win?
The media here are really trying to make a story out of Belichick's refusal to talk about Brady's ankle. I am heading down to Phx on Tuesday for media day. that ought to be interesting. I will see what I can find there.

I am not sure who Ed has this week....the following week, it might be Luke and Frank. They fill in mostly when we're gone.

Yeah I know Tilly is 49, but when you look that good who cares, I seen her at the Aussie Millions and she was fine! Vegas is on my cards in Aug, can't wait.

I guess the Giants get the win just because I want them to win, I don't like the Pats and I don't like cheating! I've been pretty good with tip in 07 so I guess I will stuff 08 up early with that pick.

Didn't know Ed was still on BUSA this week, though it was just Luke and Franka, I know they will do a great job but hey they dont have the Steve Magic!

 

[sjsdu]

GG

I'll fire off a quick reply before I head out to a family bbq. LA is a very tricky market. I've lived there and I can tell you that the people are NOT crying out for the NFL. The college game - USC especially, but UCLA too - is thriving. There are also so many transplants from other US cities that the sports bars are packed with fans of the Steelers, Browns, Bills etc, who love the NFL, but couldn't give a rats about an LA team. There's even a Steelers bar that fill with about 100 people every Sunday - you'd swear you were in Western Pennsylvania. Also, as is the case with Sydney, there is the "lots of other stuff to do" factor - the beach, the movie industry, the nightclubs - which can be tough for sports teams in LA. Ever watch a Lakers' game and see the empty seats? Very superficial town that way. Dodgers' fans often hit the road in the 7th inning to avoid traffic regardless of the score. I realise these are generalisations and that as the 2nd biggest market in the US, the NFL would love to be based there, but it's a tough sell at the moment. And the most important factor (I almost forgot!) is a stadium. Until a serious plan is put into place, LA will NOT be an NFL city. As far as teams are concerned, I think you're right about the Raiders. They have the LA tradition, Oakland is a very small market and the stadium there is a disaster. Lots of interesting conjecture around the future of football in LA, that's for sure. Hey, gotta run. Happy Australia Day Monday.
Ed

Eddie/GG

One of the biggest problems with the NFL, in my opinion, is the lack of respect for tradition that many of the owners have. Unfortunately, it is all about cash and that sucks! They will say...oh, this town is home, blah blah blah, but if someone else gives them a better offer, they turn their back on the city and bolt.
I hear alot of what you're saying about Al and his respect of tradition, but he is the guy who moved one of the most traditional franchises out of its home city and to LA.
Irsay and Modell and Bidwell are just as bad.

You want to know who I think is a logical choice for LA? The San Francisco 49ers. That jerkoff York is trying to get a stadium deal done...he tried with the city of sf and failed miserably... so now they turn their attention to Santa Clara.

If they don't get it done down there....and I have no reason to believe they are saavy enough to succeed, they will start looking elsewhere. LA is the obvious choice.

If that day does come, it will be one of the saddest ever for me. The 49ers are the only modern professional sports team with its origins in San Francisco.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Steve,

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the soulless corporatization of the NFL, and even to me a lot of the soft rules coming in, the over-zealous urge from Goodell to thwart celebrations and even his crazy ideas like taking the Superbowl outside of America. There's more to it than that tho that's 'sinister', but it's also one of the best structured sporting leagues in the world too. So there's a lot of integrity at least between the owners, where the Commissioner is more the tool of the owners than the other way around. The owners have the power. They're a community who all depend on each other's well-being.

As for Davis leaving Oakland. The thing is, Davis won his original court battle with the NFL. If you look into the details and chronology of the move out of Oakland, it was the NFL themselves (Rozelle) who was deliberately trying to screw the Raiders.

I dont see San Francisco moving to LA. The brand name San Francisco 49ers is sacred now, it's huge. Even if they move to Santa Clara it will still be San Francisco 49ers.

Maybe the Raiders and Niners should get together and create a single stadium for them both to share in the heart of the Bay Area?

But with San Francisco moving further down, perhaps it's wise for Oakland to further entrench themselves in Oakland now. But at the same time, I still think the most easily acceptable relocation would be Raiders again.

And as I understand it, there's a far huger Raider fanbase in LA than possibly Oakland. Not entirely sure on that 'stat'. I know what Ed said about La sports market is true, fickle, and lots of various team support, and College ball focused, but the Raiders still has a huge representation in LA.

 

[sjsdu]

Greetings from Arizona....
I arrived down here today for media day. It has been quite a ride. Virtually everyone I have ever watched play the game has been here. I have had sit downs with Chris Berman, Frank Caliendo, Troy Aikman and Jimmy Johnson.
At the Giants media day, I asked questions to evoke laughter and did it. I asked Osi Umenyiora whether he would force a trade with my beloved 49ers. He won't.
The stadium is in good nick and weather won't be a factor. It is sunny and about 20 degrees, I think.
Will post more later.
Am on Mark Doran's show at noon today, so you can tune in if you want to hear about it.

Steve

 

[Dagless]

Haha nice... Just have fun ok Steve

Keep us updated

 

[JeffDunne]

Did you get bumped Steve?

 

[sjsdu]

Did you get bumped Steve?

Jeff...Bumped? Oh, you mean from Doran's show? Yes.
Something about Wayne Carey calls. I don't know. Meant to do it today in first hour.

 

[montybrasco]

Pretty lame report from "Uriah Heep" Salisbury on KB’s show. Didn’t know the entertainment other than Tom Petty at half time, no mention on the commercials, etc. Financial windfalls for Arizona, TV broadcasters, and some correlation to Australian sports on and off the field of play doesn‘t get a mention.
Paula Abdul pre-game miming is a little controversial. Broader reports required for KB’s diverse listeners. Diehard fans already know what’s coming on Monday via Sportscenter, ATH, PTI, Internet radio.
The Umenyiroa to Frisco stuff was a real side-splitter. Sounds like a little self indulging going on… but understandable.

 

[Exe Gesis]

whoa!
C'mon, dude, it's a great thing that's happened to Steve, he's lapping it up, and also, it's great to have Steve and Ed feel welcome to come to this board and share their stories, info, and have a chat with us all around.

 

[celtic_pride]

Thanks for the props, man. I grew up in Sacramento and went to uni in San Diego...and always HATED the Raiders. All the kids on my street were Raiders fans and they gave it to me for years.
Of course, they are as bad as we are now so it's hard to hate them anymore. Here is some Raider gossip for you....the papers here in Nor Cal are claiming that the Raiders have asked Kiffin to resign...WTF? If true, that is moronic. You've just hired him, Al. Give the kid a chance, just like you did with Gruden.

If that is true about Kiffin...Al is certifiably insane.

Ah well ...

Well I hope your boys can come good soon again Steve, it's a shame as well your NBA team, the Kings aren't that flash hot either (although if they played in the East, they would have made the playoffs for sure)

But being a passionate Pats fan, we're here again, and it's a nerve wrecking week for sure, I just couldn't bear it if we went the whole season undefeated, only to lose it in the Super bowl ...

But assuming all systems are right, and the Pats do get up and win their 4th SB, I think it's safe to say that this team would be the greatest team in NFL history ...

But still bring on Monday (Oz time) i'm going to have so many restless nights leading up till the game. I am so damn nervous (even though we're 18-0) ...

 

[Exe Gesis]

The patriots are not the greatest team in history, tho. It's not "safe to assume".
Patriots played 6 games against shit division opponents to boot.
When you look back at the greatest Niner teams or the Bears 85 team, or other teams like the Raiders 13-1 SB winning team, many of them had majorly difficult schedules and obliterated teams all year and in the playoffs.
A loss here or two against very tough opposition in the reg season doesn't suddenly mean the 16-0 Pats was a better team.
Statistically better achievment, but not a better team, and definitely not "safe" to say.
It's very debatable.

 

[manureid]

Who are these Steve and Ed characters.....

Will we get a shout out on the SBS broadcast, "To all the homies on Bigfooty"....

 

[Exe Gesis]

I want my Superbowl XLII t-shirt!

 

[JeffDunne]

Tough crowd.

The only comment I have is to ask if Steve slapped the forehead of the person that thought he had an Aussie accent?

 

[Woodson]

The patriots are not the greatest team in history, tho. It's not "safe to assume".
Patriots played 6 games against shit division opponents to boot.
When you look back at the greatest Niner teams or the Bears 85 team, or other teams like the Raiders 13-1 SB winning team, many of them had majorly difficult schedules and obliterated teams all year and in the playoffs.
A loss here or two against very tough opposition in the reg season doesn't suddenly mean the 16-0 Pats was a better team.
Statistically better achievment, but not a better team, and definitely not "safe" to say.
It's very debatable.

And if you can't beat 'em... what more can you say?? debate some more..eh gg?