Supporters or Players, What's More Important to a Rivalry?

[Bluelegs]

I've been thinking about some of the well known rivalries in football, some have sustained themselves for a long time, while others have petered out. But I was thinking about what actually fuels and sustains a rivalry more, what makes them better, the supporters or the players?

There are some rivalries that are sustained simply by the supporter bases hatred of each other like West Coast v Fremantle, Adelaide v Port Adelaide and Carlton v Collingwood. Then there are others that have been player led, like Geelong v Hawthorn, where the Geelong players famously swore never to lose to Hawthorn again after the 2008 Grand Final, and recently Western Bulldogs and GWS have had a player fueled rivalry.

 

[Kim Hagdorn]

Both equally.

 

[Osho]

The 2 best hate filled rivalries I recall were blues tiges late 60s thru mid 70s, and hawks dons from 83 onward.

Respective players despised each other and went to extreme levels to get the better of the other, driven by club hierarchies who raise the emotion as high as they could, to the soundtrack of bloodcurdling yells from the crowd.

Quite enjoyed it. Those days are gone. Players now generally much better behaved and mutually respectful.

 

[Whiskers]

I've been thinking about some of the well known rivalries in football, some have sustained themselves for a long time, while others have petered out. But I was thinking about what actually fuels and sustains a rivalry more, what makes them better, the supporters or the players?

There are some rivalries that are sustained simply by the supporter bases hatred of each other like West Coast v Fremantle, Adelaide v Port Adelaide and Carlton v Collingwood. Then there are others that have been player led, like Geelong v Hawthorn, where the Geelong players famously swore never to lose to Hawthorn again after the 2008 Grand Final, and recently Western Bulldogs and GWS have had a player fueled rivalry.

The Geelong v Hawthorn one is longer than ‘08 and for me it’s the supporter bases.
Hawthorn fans were born into an era of success. Not many are older than 45, they are bandwagon supporters without a real passion for the game or their club, Hawk fans chose their side for some cheap success.
They have never done it hard and when they thought it was getting difficult tried to merge.
Geelong fans on the other hand did it tough for a long time, they stuck with a club who didn’t experience prolonged success and when we won, it was such a beautiful moment after doing it hard for so long. Sustaining it was extra special.
Unlike Hawthorn we never had to be terrible to get high draft picks. Whereas when Hawthorn win a flag, it’s not so much a celebration, it’s more getting stuck into the opposition.
Their success in the 80s is also built on under the table payments and keeping the same recruitment areas which were meant to shift around.
I can’t stand bandwagon fans and Hawthorn have them in droves. They won’t get to experience the real thrill of choosing a side, watching them build and finally win a flag. They wouldn’t have the guts to see through tougher times.
Hawk fans are soft.

 

[Osho]

The Geelong v Hawthorn one is longer than ‘08 and for me it’s the supporter bases.
Hawthorn fans were born into an era of success. Not many are older than 45, they are bandwagon supporters without a real passion for the game or their club, Hawk fans chose their side for some cheap success.
They have never done it hard and when they thought it was getting difficult tried to merge.
Geelong fans on the other hand did it tough for a long time, they stuck with a club who didn’t experience prolonged success and when we won, it was such a beautiful moment after doing it hard for so long. Sustaining it was extra special.
Unlike Hawthorn we never had to be terrible to get high draft picks. Whereas when Hawthorn win a flag, it’s not so much a celebration, it’s more getting stuck into the opposition.
Their success in the 80s is also built on under the table payments and keeping the same recruitment areas which were meant to shift around.
I can’t stand bandwagon fans and Hawthorn have them in droves. They won’t get to experience the real thrill of choosing a side, watching them build and finally win a flag. They wouldn’t have the guts to see through tougher times.
Hawk fans are soft.

What a load of rubbish.

My old man born 1924 in Glenferrie, a long suffering Hawks fan through the pre 1960 period, with his 2 elder sons who are now approaching 70 yo, are amongst the many long standing Hawk fans that I know.

Hawks were a laughing stock until they became the most successful team in the comp.

Do you think it is not right that young fans gravitate to successful clubs? Or old fans regenerate interest?

I reckon you're just having a laugh.

 

[Bluelegs]

The Geelong v Hawthorn one is longer than ‘08 and for me it’s the supporter bases.
Hawthorn fans were born into an era of success. Not many are older than 45, they are bandwagon supporters without a real passion for the game or their club, Hawk fans chose their side for some cheap success.
They have never done it hard and when they thought it was getting difficult tried to merge.
Geelong fans on the other hand did it tough for a long time, they stuck with a club who didn’t experience prolonged success and when we won, it was such a beautiful moment after doing it hard for so long. Sustaining it was extra special.
Unlike Hawthorn we never had to be terrible to get high draft picks. Whereas when Hawthorn win a flag, it’s not so much a celebration, it’s more getting stuck into the opposition.
Their success in the 80s is also built on under the table payments and keeping the same recruitment areas which were meant to shift around.
I can’t stand bandwagon fans and Hawthorn have them in droves. They won’t get to experience the real thrill of choosing a side, watching them build and finally win a flag. They wouldn’t have the guts to see through tougher times.
Hawk fans are soft.

I'm aware there is a little history to the 80s and before but in 2007 Hawthorn and Geelong were playing matches in Tassie. Not quite the rivalry of modern times that draws a 70k+ crowd to the MCG every year.

 

[windyhill]

Easily supporters. Footballers couldn’t give a flying ****.

 

[James Colorado]

What a load of rubbish.

My old man born 1924 in Glenferrie, a long suffering Hawks fan through the pre 1960 period, with his 2 elder sons who are now approaching 70 yo, are amongst the many long standing Hawk fans that I know.

Hawks were a laughing stock until they became the most successful team in the comp.

Do you think it is not right that young fans gravitate to successful clubs? Or old fans regenerate interest?

I reckon you're just having a laugh.

Laugh isn't the word I'd use for that diatribe.

 

[Sky]

What a load of rubbish.

My old man born 1924 in Glenferrie, a long suffering Hawks fan through the pre 1960 period, with his 2 elder sons who are now approaching 70 yo, are amongst the many long standing Hawk fans that I know.

Hawks were a laughing stock until they became the most successful team in the comp.

Do you think it is not right that young fans gravitate to successful clubs? Or old fans regenerate interest?

I reckon you're just having a laugh.

Most likely he just knows nothing about football history. I go for the same club as him probably half the blokes age and am still aware that Hawks suffered more between 1925-1960 than we did 1964-2006. Who wouldn’t rather lose grand finals than not even get close.

 

[FrustratedTiger]

In the old days, it was both. There's not much rivalry amongst the players these days. Rivalries are all about the supporters now

 

[Soggy2112]

Both can make a rivalry, however the supporters need to buy into it to make it work long term. The Dogs-Giants rivalry has been great to watch but I imagine that’ll probably die out once the players involved who have beef with each other are gone. Contrast to the Showdown, which will always be there because the supporters make it and bring the players along with it.

 

[James Colorado]

Most likely he just knows nothing about football history. I go for the same club as him probably half the blokes age and am still aware that Hawks suffered more between 1925-1960 than we did 1964-2006. Who wouldn’t rather lose grand finals than not even get close.

Mate, the best part of our game is the fan rivalries are friendly. How often do you go to games with family and friends who support clubs you loathe? Quite often, I suspect from your posting (Covid aside, obvs). My attitude towards the clubs Hawthorn has rivalries with doesn't define how I feel about their supporters; I love spending time with Bombers, Cats, Swans fans, etc. If you take this game so seriously that you judge a person by their team supported as some measure of their character, then you need help. I suspect the poster we're referring to is not someone who would be good company at a game.

 

[conrad_437]

In the Bulldogs case, it's probably players. The GWS rivalry is largely built on player hate between the two sides considering the amount of melee's in each game, which has been happening since 2014 I believe and was certainly heightened post 2016.

Seems like there may be one developing with Melbourne. Tom Boyd said on his podcast recently that he wasn't a fan of their players essentially, something along the lines of thinking they were gods gift without having achieved anything. Now that they have achieved something, and with recent events, it seems likely that Doggies players aren't huge fans, and there's probably some feelings reciprocated.

But by and large, supporters usually drive a rivalry.

 

[Sky]

Mate, the best part of our game is the fan rivalries are friendly. How often do you go to games with family and friends who support clubs you loathe? Quite often, I suspect from your posting (Covid aside, obvs). My attitude towards the clubs Hawthorn has rivalries with doesn't define how I feel about their supporters; I love spending time with Bombers, Cats, Swans fans, etc. If you take this game so seriously that you judge a person by their team supported as some measure of their character, then you need help. I suspect the poster we're referring to is not someone who would be good company at a game.

Yep. There was a stretch between 2015-2017 where I joined up to Port and preferred going to their games (over watching us on TV) and that was because of their fans. They can be grotty but it’s almost always just in good fun. I live for that shit.

Yeah, I wouldn’t go to the footy with that guy either lol

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

If you go back to Essendon v Hawthorn in the 80s/90s and 00s, definitely the players who were the ones who fueled that rivalry. Remember that infamous line in the sand game. Alas Gil and the AFL have sanitised the game and conduct of players on field that it's unlikely we will see such an brusing game again.

Apparently Hird was fed up with Essendon constantly losing to Hawthorn whilst as coach which was the instigator to his infamous "Whatever it Takes" program.

It's easy to forget just how spiteful some of those Hawks v Bombers clashes have been over the years, the players certainly take it personally, maybe more so than the supporters.

 

[juss]

It's the supporters, no contest. Anyone who thinks the modern AFL players hate each other is kidding themselves.

These guys are going through the same thing, it really is a players association and what's good for one is good for the other, of course there might be the odd individual dislikes, but there is more widespread comradaerie than their is dislike.

 

[Jibroni]

Without supporters hating each other you dont have a game

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Losing a grand final by more than 73 points after months of trying to convince everyone that your midfield is the best and deepest in history is a key factor I think

 

[Sky]

Without supporters hating each other you dont have a game

Does it take one or two more premierships in quick succession for Australia to turn on you like they did us and Richmond?

 

[Liam Boy]

They have never done it hard and when they thought it was getting difficult tried to merge.

That's not what happened at all, the AFL tried to make them merge and it failed because Hawthorn's members voted it down.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Unlike Hawthorn we never had to be terrible to get high draft picks.

Just three father sons with 18 AAs between them

 

[Jibroni]

Does it take one or two more premierships in quick succession for Australia to turn on you like they did us and Richmond?

We don't have Chris Scott

 

[Sky]

We don't have Chris Scott

You don’t have Hardwick either so fair point. Simon Goodwin gives me the same creep vibe as the main character on Banshee. Either way you’d rather have a beer with him

 

[cherrypie]

The Dogs-Giants rivalry has been great to watch but I imagine that’ll probably die out once the players involved who have beef with each other are gone.

Not wrong, it’s definitely started to go down too. Ward’s nearly finished, Griffen retired and Boyd retired which covers the main moves that started it.

Patton, Cameron, Smith and Finlayson all gone, it’s really just Greene that I dislike. From GWS’ perspective, I can really only see some dislike from Haynes towards Bont but may be wrong.

Only players remaining from the 16 prelim are Coniglio, Haynes, Hopper, Kelly, Ward, Whitfield, Bont, Cordy, Daniel, Dunkley, Hunter, JJ, Libba, Macrae and McLean. The large majority of which have no apparent issues

 

[Marmozet]

Supporters.

Players allegiances change very quickly, whereas supporters are more invested and rusted on.