Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

Academies, friend or foe


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Your interjection was weird to start with. And taking my single point off on various strawman is not unexpected.

My entire point, I say for the 3rd or 4th time, is if people are going to argue, use facts. Inflating the argument is disingenuous at best.
That is my point, that's it. Nothing else. Use facts, don't (possibly deliberately) misrepresent a position to strengthen a point. If it's a good point, it doesn't need it.

Yes how dare I contribute to a discussion I was already an active participant in. I took issue with you trying to undermine a valid point with a very flawed premise.

We've heard enough of your noble fighting for facts, we get it, the facts still suit the point that Vic clubs at their worst are significantly advantaged to interstate clubs at their best in terms of list make up from their home state. Why not give the other states a way to bring in more homegrown talent?
 
COLA isn't a slush fund though, I don't know why people struggle to understand this.. it's a loading on contracts just like the rental assistance is.

Do you have a single source to back up your assertions? All our players had a COLA loading in their contract, that was the entire point of it.

You just recruited Jeremy Cameron after appearing in a GF but there's been nothing made of it. An unnfancied Swans team won the 2012 flag and brought Tippett in and suddenly it was cheating?

I never said Tippett was cheating, I said you probably could have afforded him without COLA - read it again.

Buddy was the tipping point. He was destined to go to GWS, but you guys popped up and put the most ridiculous contract forward anyone has seen - all because you had the ability to load his contract with all that extra living allowance being built into his contract. Acting like that wasn't wrong is just entirely disingenuous.

Lol, there's plenty of articles detailing why the COLA was revoked and why Buddy was the reason for that happening - it's really common knowledge by now.

Also, there's a big difference between us paying 950K over 6 years, and giving up 3 first rounders (wiping out our draft collateral completely but also having to operate within our salary cap), and offering 10 mil over 9 years, with no loss of draft collateral, and being able to do that all because you have a monetary allowance that 16 other clubs do not have.
 

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I never said Tippett was cheating, I said you probably could have afforded him without COLA - read it again.

Buddy was the tipping point. He was destined to go to GWS, but you guys popped up and put the most ridiculous contract forward anyone has seen - all because you had the ability to load his contract with all that extra living allowance being built into his contract. Acting like that wasn't wrong is just entirely disingenuous.

Lol, there's plenty of articles detailing why the COLA was revoked and why Buddy was the reason for that happening - it's really common knowledge by now.

Also, there's a big difference between us paying 950K over 6 years, and giving up 3 first rounders (wiping out our draft collateral completely but also having to operate within our salary cap), and offering 10 mil over 9 years, with no draft picks, and being able to do that all because you have a monetary allowance that 16 other clubs do not have.

"Probably could have afforded him" suggests you think there's a chance we cheated to get him, come on mate haha.

We didn't load his contract with anything, particularly not anything GWS could also offer him, so using COLA as the reason we got Buddy when GWS had COLA too is just utterly bizarre.

The contract put to Buddy was loaded in such a way as to factor in the increase in the cap and stagger it based on our players current contracts. And we STILL lost guys like Mumford, Nankervic, Membrey, Mitchell, Jones, etc. etc.
 
"Probably could have afforded him" suggests you think there's a chance we cheated to get him, come on mate haha.

We didn't load his contract with anything, particularly not anything GWS could also offer him, so using COLA as the reason we got Buddy when GWS had COLA too is just utterly bizarre.

The contract put to Buddy was loaded in such a way as to factor in the increase in the cap and stagger it based on our players current contracts. And we STILL lost guys like Mumford, Nankervic, Membrey, Mitchell, Jones, etc. etc.

GWS still had a team of kids at that stage, you had a plethora of GF Best 22 players that squeezed the cap a lot more. GWS should have been the only team that was able to afford him, not a recent Premiership winning/still contending team with stars across every line.
 
The thing that shits me is hating the outcome not the process. Nothing wrong with GC academy.....

NGA- should be removed entirely
FS- should get no discount in points, what the ****??? Why does that exist?
Academy- should only be able to be a matched in same round as the bid.

victorian “purists” who want a equal comp need to review own biases on a range of topics before hating on academies.
- MCG GF
- limited Travel
- go home factor
- 3rd party money
- cost of living (dare I say)

take your pick on what we are equalising.
 
GWS still had a team of kids at that stage, you had a plethora of GF Best 22 players that squeezed the cap a lot more. GWS should have been the only team that was able to afford him, not a recent Premiership winning/still contending team with stars across every line.

Doesn't that make it even more likely that they should have been able to afford him?

So you've not come up with any sources to back up your claims other than "It was the vibe of it".

I've provided actual evidence of how we afforded him and what we lost to do it.
 
I never said Tippett was cheating, I said you probably could have afforded him without COLA - read it again.

Buddy was the tipping point. He was destined to go to GWS, but you guys popped up and put the most ridiculous contract forward anyone has seen - all because you had the ability to load his contract with all that extra living allowance being built into his contract. Acting like that wasn't wrong is just entirely disingenuous.

Lol, there's plenty of articles detailing why the COLA was revoked and why Buddy was the reason for that happening - it's really common knowledge by now.

Also, there's a big difference between us paying 950K over 6 years, and giving up 3 first rounders (wiping out our draft collateral completely but also having to operate within our salary cap), and offering 10 mil over 9 years, with no loss of draft collateral, and being able to do that all because you have a monetary allowance that 16 other clubs do not have.
Yeah but why did you lie about us breaking rules?
 
GWS still had a team of kids at that stage, you had a plethora of GF Best 22 players that squeezed the cap a lot more. GWS should have been the only team that was able to afford him, not a recent Premiership winning/still contending team with stars across every line.
Revisionism.

No one rated our list as competitive that year. What stars across every line are you talking about?
 
GWS still had a team of kids at that stage, you had a plethora of GF Best 22 players that squeezed the cap a lot more. GWS should have been the only team that was able to afford him, not a recent Premiership winning/still contending team with stars across every line.

Didn’t you guys just play in a GF and then brought in Cameron?
 
Revisionism.

No one rated our list as competitive that year. What stars across every line are you talking about?

LOL he's literally doing exactly what I just said people did after that GF.

Guys like Malceski, Parker, Jetta, Rohan, Morton etc. were all suddenly on huge money and not the very modest deals they were on at the time.
 
Doesn't that make it even more likely that they should have been able to afford him?

So you've not come up with any sources to back up your claims other than "It was the vibe of it".

I've provided actual evidence of how we afforded him and what we lost to do it.

They could afford him, he just chose not to go there because he didn't want to be stuck in the doldrums, and instead wanted immediate success with their rival club who were already in flag contention.
 

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Agreed. It's not Campbell that is the issue though lol, it's McDonald being a 'free hit' that is. As has been stated a gajillion times throughout this thread.
Just like Geelong getting Selwood and Hawkins saw the F/S rules change

I would like to see an incentive for Academy teams to select Academy picks.
I will use the Campbell example last year
If Sydney select him at pick 4 they can use 15% of the draft points value to upgrade their pick in the next round. So they get 304 draft points added to their 2nd round pick. This pushes their pick 22 into pick 15. It gives Sydney an incentive to use their pick on an Academy player and takes into account they may not be picking up the best available player

Now if they pass on Campbell, they must find a pick within 10 picks based on where he is bid on to start matching points. So Hawthorn bid at pick 5 so Sydney must find a pick within 15 to start matching. This is an extreme example as it is the very next pick, generally you may only be looking to upgrade 3 or 4 spots which may cost a lower round pick.

The biggest impacts on the academy clubs will occur if they select a player only a couple of spots before a bid on an academy player or if they are a top 4 team
 
They could afford him, he just chose not to go there because he didn't want to be stuck in the doldrums, and instead wanted immediate success with their rival club who were already in flag contention.

Oh so it was our success not ridiculous money that got him to Sydney, thanks.
 
Yep, and we had to pay through the nose for it, without any extra living allowances, and while giving up 3 first round picks.

So giving up first round picks means that you suddenly had cap space for Cameron?
 
Oh so it was our success not ridiculous money that got him to Sydney, thanks.

No it was a combination of the two lol. If you can get money and success, or money OR success...which one are you likely to choose?
 
JPK, Parker, Hannebery, Jack, LRT, Mcveigh, Richards, Goodes, Grundy, Bolton, Malceski, Jetta.

Yeah it's such a horrible list lol

Of those only Hanners and JPK were on big money at the time. That was before they got rid of the veteran allowance meaning guys like Goodes, ROK, Bolton were outside the cap largely.

Parker and Jetta were likely still on their rookie contracts for God's sake lol.
 
"Top end priority pick"?

GWS are plummeting back down the ladder despite actually having priority picks. GCS have had endless priorities and are only slowly starting to get it together. We get one maybe two A-grade Academy players into our side in Heeney and Mills and draft some kids to start the season 3-0 and suddenly we've got endless top end talent coming out of our ears.

Reminds me of in 2012 when heading into the GF we were an average list of plodders who had done well with a good game plan, then after winning the flag and recruiting Tippett were a star studded list that surely couldn't afford everyone in our cap without cheating.
GWS still had a team of kids at that stage, you had a plethora of GF Best 22 players that squeezed the cap a lot more. GWS should have been the only team that was able to afford him, not a recent Premiership winning/still contending team with stars across every line.
JPK, Parker, Hannebery, Jack, LRT, Mcveigh, Richards, Goodes, Grundy, Bolton, Malceski, Jetta.

Yeah it's such a horrible list lol

It's like you're doing this on purpose haha.
 
So giving up first round picks means that you suddenly had cap space for Cameron?

No, knowing that Selwood, Hawkins, Jenkins, Higgins, Smith, Rohan, Dahlhaus etc. won't be on our list in 2 years, is what gave us salary cap space. We also had 800K set aside for TK last year, after all the recent retirements over the last few years of players like Taylor, Enright, Bartel, Mackie, Ablett, Scott Selwood, Jack Steven being paid out, etc.

After Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan and Blicavs, it drops off considerably - before we got Cameron.
 

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Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

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