Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[Iceman!]

Reckon the AFL wouldn't be too keen on funnelling resources into something like that or they'd already do it..

So the AFL prioritizing profits over fairness of the comp is only an issue when it is giving Vics a leg up?

 

[Hippster]

I’m ok with it. End of the day Sydney have to come to the MCG to try and win a GF. That is never easy.
Also a strong Sydney is great for the AFL. Like a strong Storm is great for the NRL.

 

[SM]

So the AFL prioritizing profits over fairness of the comp is only an issue when it is giving Vics a leg up?

Not quite sure why we're starting yet another cycle of this dance but please read up on where this thread got to.

 

[Colonial]

So the AFL prioritizing profits over fairness of the comp is only an issue when it is giving Vics a leg up?

Why not, that’s why the MCG has the GF under contract.

 

[david addison]

My parents dragged me along to the lakeside oval to watch the reserves back in the dark ages. 70's I think. I saw tony shaw running around and I thought 'he's a bit tubby, not as good as ray, he'll never make it'. My dad followed the bloods. Now he goes to richmond games. enough about me.

In the 23 years from 1996 - 2018, the swans missed the finals 3 times. 3 times in 23 years. the enormity of this effort takes a while to sink in. here's some thinking music while you mull that over... tell me where it hurts, to hell with everybody else, all I care about is you and that's the truth, they don't love me, I can tell, but you do so they can go to hell.... sunk in yet? finalists 20 of 23 seasons. the media repeatedly quantified this effort as 'great culture'. I think they meant cola, but they said culture. Now, after a mere 2 years out of the 8, Longmire is comparing the 2021 squad to the bombers of '93. Not too subtle. I bet he got a call from gil to be a little less conspicuous. Here's what it would look like outside afl house, and this isn't pity, just perspective, these would be the scenes outside afl house if the pies were the sole beneficiary of the academy + cola:



I'm just saying it wouldn't go over well. that's all. bring 'em back to lakeside. the experiment failed. and while i'm here... pay 'in the back' once in a while, and maybe 'incorrect disposal' (if it's not too much trouble). The umps get booed off every week for one reason, and one reason only - holding the ball, or confusion about the rule amongst fans & commentators. simplify it then. how hard could that be? hmmm, clear up holding the ball and stop ignoring push outs, or change all the other rules? did you know if you say steve hocking backwards you can hear 'satan is lord'? try it. it's chilling. Actually, round 3 was a pretty good week for the afl. chris scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

didn't call anybody a c***. He did however go on classified to say that 'coaching is hard.' In his testimony he said that he needs the ten thousand to build a non-slip patio on Dan's holiday home.

 

[SM]

My parents dragged me along to the lakeside oval to watch the reserves back in the dark ages. 70's I think. I saw tony shaw running around and I thought 'he's a bit tubby, not as good as ray, he'll never make it'. My dad followed the bloods. Now he goes to richmond games. enough about me.

In the 23 years from 1996 - 2018, the swans missed the finals 3 times. 3 times in 23 years. the enormity of this effort takes a while to sink in. here's some thinking music while you mull that over... tell me where it hurts, to hell with everybody else, all I care about is you and that's the truth, they don't love me, I can tell, but you do so they can go to hell.... sunk in yet? finalists 20 of 23 seasons. the media repeatedly quantified this effort as 'great culture'. I think they meant cola, but they said culture. Now, after a mere 2 years out of the 8, Longmire is comparing the 2021 squad to the bombers of '93. Not too subtle. I bet he got a call from gil to be a little less conspicuous. Here's what it would look like outside afl house, and this isn't pity, just perspective, these would be the scenes outside afl house if the pies were the sole beneficiary of the academy + cola:

View attachment 1096504

I'm just saying it wouldn't go over well. that's all. bring 'em back to lakeside. the experiment failed. and while i'm here... pay 'in the back' once in a while, and maybe 'incorrect disposal' (if it's not too much trouble). The umps get booed off every week for one reason, and one reason only - holding the ball, or confusion about the rule amongst fans & commentators. simplify it then. how hard could that be? hmmm, clear up holding the ball and stop ignoring push outs, or change all the other rules? did you know if you say steve hocking backwards you can hear 'satan is lord'? try it. it's chilling. Actually, round 3 was a pretty good week for the afl. chris scott didn't call anybody a c***. He did however go on classified to say that 'coaching is hard.' In his testimony he said that he needs the ten thousand to build a non-slip patio on Dan's holiday home.

Longmire has done no such thing, the media has. What a bizarre post.

 

[Iceman!]

Why not, that’s why the MCG has the GF under contract.

Yes which is all you and all interstate fans ever complain about... If you truly want to call out the AFL for the bs prioritizing of money call it out all the time not neglecting it when it benefits you.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Sorry that i did not address literally every single thing stopping the AFL from being a truly equal competition...

I have no issue with the AFL implementing rules around player movement.

I do however think the complete deflection from any discussion surrounding the academies in here is a bit funny.

I would give up home grand finals, father sons and would even cap the amount of players coming in through trade if it meant we could be adding players of Heeney, Mills, Blakey, Campbell class every other year.

I get that you're happy to change alot of things, but as you said you're still not addressing everything. And player retention is an issue which the academies are helping to stem. So instead of coming up with a different solution you are still attacking the academy system without an alternative suggestion? Even with the academies as they are, we still only have 12 NSW based players on the list. It's still a disadvantage yet you want to lessen the affect of the academy even more...

Campbell didn't come for free as people here are proclaiming. He cost us a second round pick. That was our only advantage. A 2nd rounder turning into a 1st rounder every few years to make up for the massive % difference of home grown talent and player retention.. that's hardly overboard. All whilst McDonald and Stephens, who are our only high picks in a long time, more than likely are already getting money dangled at them from their home states. Yet here you are with a 90% home grown list pissed off that our odd second rounder turns into a first. Look elsewhere before even considering touching the academies. And only touch the academies if you can come up with a suggestion that helps increase player retention for us even more so that it matches your own.

 

[SM]

Yes which is all you and all interstate fans ever complain about... If you truly want to call out the AFL for the bs prioritizing of money call it out all the time not neglecting it when it benefits you.

Ditto.

 

[Iceman!]

I get that you're happy to change alot of things, but as you said you're still not addressing everything. And player retention is an issue which the academies are helping to stem. So instead of coming up with a different solution you are still attacking the academy system without an alternative suggestion? Even with the academies as they are, we still only have 12 NSW based players on the list. It's still a disadvantage yet you want to lessen the affect of the academy even more...

Campbell didn't come for free as people here are proclaiming. He cost us a second round pick. That was our only advantage. A 2nd rounder turning into a 1st rounder every few years to make up for the massive % difference of home grown talent and player retention.. that's hardly overboard. All whilst McDonald and Stephens, who are our only high picks in a long time, more than likely are already getting money dangled at them from their home states. Yet here you are with a 90% home grown list pissed off that our odd second rounder turns into a first. Look elsewhere before even considering touching the academies. And only touch the academies if you can come up with a suggestion that helps increase player retention for us even more so that it matches your own.

Show me the player retention issues that the Swans have suffered

Not to mention adding Campbell one of the elite few at the top end of the draft that is one of the best kicks i have seen coming through the Draft in a few years for a second pick and some change is a HUGE win. This is not some slight upgrade.

 

[Iceman!]

Ditto.

I. have. so. many. times.

I try talking about academies in a thread about the academies and all you and everyone does is deflect. I have acknowledged the things that benefits Vic teams that needs to change, most are not wiling to also acknowledge that the academies are also a bs advantage that needs to go.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Show me the player retention issues that the Swans have suffered

Papley is the most recent one who wanted to return home. Even if there isn't any obvious trade requests it clearly has an affect on list management as they need to dangle more lucrative carrots to make players stay. It's an issue Vic clubs rarely need to deal with, all whilst they have players banging down the door waiting to come home to them.

 

[SM]

I. have. so. many. times.

I try talking about academies in a thread about the academies and all you and everyone does is deflect. I have acknowledged the things that benefits Vic teams that needs to change, most are not wiling to also acknowledge that the academies are also a bs advantage that needs to go.

All I do? I don't think I've brought up other inequities, and in fact have agreed with the need for changes in the drafting of Academy players.

Maybe. Read. The. Thread.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I. have. so. many. times.

I try talking about academies in a thread about the academies and all you and everyone does is deflect. I have acknowledged the things that benefits Vic teams that needs to change, most are not wiling to also acknowledge that the academies are also a bs advantage that needs to go.

So what's your suggestion then?? You want to take away the one thing that help interstate clubs with homegrown talent and player retention. What are you replacing it with? Because even with the academy the numbers are still significantly skewed in favour of Vic.

 

[Iceman!]

Papley is the most recent one who wanted to return home. Even if there isn't any obvious trade requests it clearly has an affect on list management as they need to dangle more lucrative carrots to make players stay. It's an issue Vic clubs rarely need to deal with, all whilst they have players banging down the door waiting to come home to them.

Papley had family stuff going on and also didn't leave.

If a player almost returning home is the retention issue the Swans are suffering i would say they are doing alright.

 

[Iceman!]

So what's your suggestion then?? You want to take away the one thing that help interstate clubs with homegrown talent and player retention. What are you replacing it with? Because even with the academy the numbers are still significantly skewed in favour of Vic.

An AFL funded academy that has players going in to an open draft.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Papley is the most recent one who wanted to return home. Even if there isn't any obvious trade requests it clearly has an affect on list management as they need to dangle more lucrative carrots to make players stay. It's an issue Vic clubs rarely need to deal with, all whilst they have players banging down the door waiting to come home to them.

Zac Jones another where we had to accept a bunch of rubbish for a first rounder...

 

[zyzzbruh]

An AFL funded academy that has players going in to an open draft.

But in that case when a nsw player gets picked by a certain club without us having a chance of picking him, how does that help our home grown and player retention issues. All that does is give Vic clubs, who already have majority of the talent pool, yet another advantage. That's not a solution at all.

And before you say we could've picked Campbell... That's means we would've given up our pick 4 in McDonald for a pick 5 rated Campbell. Which is yet another downgrade and another disadvantage.

 

[Iceman!]

But in that case when a nsw player gets picked by a certain club without us having a chance of picking him, how does that help our home grown and player retention issues. All that does is give Vic clubs, who already have majority of the talent pool, yet another advantage. That's not a solution at all.

And before you say we could've picked Campbell... That's means we would've given up our pick 4 in McDonald for a pick 5 rated Campbell. Which is yet another downgrade and another disadvantage.

Because it gives Sydney a chance to bring these kids home to help combat the advantage Vic clubs have in having such a large player pool to pick from.

More Sydney kids coming in to the AFL more chance for them to entice them home.

 

[Colonial]

Yes which is all you and all interstate fans ever complain about... If you truly want to call out the AFL for the bs prioritizing of money call it out all the time not neglecting it when it benefits you.

Not at all.
We also bring up.
The massive 3rd party payments available to Victorians,
The development structures.
Go home factor.
The Victoriancentric AFL media.
And many other things brought up in this thread.

But all are pretty much only brought up by us when northern academies are whinged about.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Because it gives Sydney a chance to bring these kids home to help combat the advantage Vic clubs have in having such a large player pool to pick from.

More Sydney kids coming in to the AFL more chance for them to entice them home.

Maybe argue that point once the talent pool in NSW comes even slightly close to that of VIC. Only then would your point be valid.

Yes absolutely mills Heeney Blakey and Campbell were top 10 picks. That's 4 top 10 picks over 6 years... How many has their been from VIC? I can guess a shit tonne more without having to look it up.

Talk about it in 20 years time when the AFL has maybe made some inroads into the NRL culture there in NSW and there is actually a significant amount of talent coming through. Right now it's severely skewed. So just let it be.

 

[Iceman!]

Maybe argue that point once the talent pool in NSW comes even slightly close to that of VIC. Only then would your point be valid.

Yes absolutely mills Heeney Blakey and Campbell were top 10 picks. That's 4 top 10 picks over 6 years... How many has their been from VIC? I can guess a sh*t tonne more without having to look it up.

Talk about it in 20 years time when the AFL has maybe made some inroads into the NRL culture there in NSW and there is actually a significant amount of talent coming through. Right now it's severely skewed. So just let it be.

Okay so first of all 2 NSW teams compared to 10 Vic teams, so NSW does not need to produce anywhere near the same amount of players to have the same amount of benefit from go home factor.

Second of all the difference is the Swans can match bids on those players without using those picks, adding 4 top 10 quality players without using any top 10 picks on them is a huge leg up. They added top 5 talents whilst playing in GF's, they added another top 5 talent with a second round pick and change.

3rd of all Sydney don't have player retention issues, they are adding these Sydney kids to combat an issue the club has not suffered from all whilst being such a strong and well run club they are able to draw talent to the club from interstate which is something that most of the small Vic clubs can not even do.

 

[Maddhew]

Whats the obsession with high draft picks?

Its not our fault our Academy players haven't turned out to be Scully, Watts, Trengrove, Gibbs, Kruezer, Tambling, Vickery.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Okay so first of all 2 NSW teams compared to 10 Vic teams, so NSW does not need to produce anywhere near the same amount of players to have the same amount of benefit from go home factor.

Second of all the difference is the Swans can match bids on those players without using those picks so it is not the Swans getting them. They added top 5 talents whilst playing in GF's, they added another top 5 talent with a second round pick and change.

3rd of all Sydney don't have player retention issues, they are adding these Sydney kids to combat an issue the club has not suffered from all whilst being such a strong and well run club they are able to draw talent to the club from interstate which is something that most of the small Vic clubs can not even do.

Without knowing the exact numbers I'd very confidently guess that even with 10 teams in VIC, the pool is still greater.

You're saying we don't have retention issues from a surface level. How do you know if players aren't being offered more than what they are worth to be kept there? Papley, and Jones are recent examples, Jetta and Rohan are others. 3 of which were first rounders by the way. Even so you have to ask yourself why isn't there clear and obvious retention issues? Maybe because we had develop alot of our better players over the years through the rookie draft, and also gambled on players no one else wanted to give an opportunity to. Again, not an issue other clubs need to content with because it's easier for them to turnover players. We're only where we are at thanks to our list management team, not the academies.

And yes we may have already had a good team when we got Heeney, but we still have to plan to keep Heeney, thus cutting certain players off. Same thing will happen with Campbell and gulden. Only difference is we finally won't need to put an extra 200k on the end of their salary just to keep them. Yet VIC clubs can resign 90% of their list without a sweat, whilst making room for the new lot who want back in.

 

[WillHayward]

No, I'm not. The Sydney academy (and GWS, Bris, GC) are zoned based systems that give priority access to players from a particular zone. In the case of the Swans it's half of NSW.

Any kind of zoned based system won't ever be fair and is impossible to try to balance out. There's no way to make any kind of bidding system fair yet alone control the talent that comes through each academy.

It's nice to promote footy in NSW and QLD. But what does that do for the average fan of any other side - nothing. There's literally no benefit to me if kids play footy in NSW and QLD. They've had 150 years to get their heads around it and haven't been interested.

The AFL like to sell expansion as a noble cause. It's BS. It's a way to grow the TV rights and make themselves more money.

Are you a toddler?