Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[Shadow89]

It’s only GWS and Gold Coast who are at a disadvantage when it comes to father sons and they get every other concession under the sun.

We need to get rid of NGAs they are a complete joke. No academy player is allowed to be matched in the first 2 rounds

The thing is if someone drafts a Swans kid they take a risk of them wanting to go home seeing that part of the reason the academy was introduced to fight the go home factor hurting these clubs disproportionately it still achieves its goals

Mmmm, no that's not exactly true. While Brisbane and Sydney at least have Fitzroy and South Melbourne as VFL connected sides that give them that 'father-son' history, West Coast, Freo, Adelaide, Port, GC and GWS have 35 years of history at most (Eagles in 1986), which is one generation. I'm still not sure I've even seen a F/S come out of WC though (would need someone else to clear that up - but it wouldn't be many).

Port, Adelaide, and Freo all came to fruition in the mid 90's, so they've only got 25 years of history or so - which is barely enough time for a player to player 100 games, have a kid, and then them turn 18 to be drafted as F/S. There's been one so far that I can remember, which was the Edwards kid - that's all I can think of off the top of my head. GWS and GC don't even enter the conversation.

 

[Seedsfan]

Mmmm, no that's not exactly true. While Brisbane and Sydney at least have Fitzroy and South Melbourne as VFL connected sides that give them that 'father-son' history, West Coast, Freo, Adelaide, Port, GC and GWS have 35 years of history at most (Eagles in 1986), which is one generation. I'm still not sure I've even seen a F/S come out of WC though (would need someone else to clear that up - but it wouldn't be many).

Port, Adelaide, and Freo all came to fruition in the mid 90's, so they've only got 25 years of history or so - which is barely enough time for a player to player 100 games, have a kid, and then them turn 18 to be drafted as F/S. There's been one so far that I can remember, which was the Edwards kid - that's all I can think of off the top of my head. GWS and GC don't even enter the conversation.

Waterman for the Eagles and you would be hard pressed to find any player who’s kids are getting selected under the farther son rule who’s old man didn’t play 100 games concurrently with the Eagles being in the comp.

Port have a number of good father son prospects starting to come through

 

[zyzzbruh]

It’s only GWS and Gold Coast who are at a disadvantage when it comes to father sons and they get every other concession under the sun.

We need to get rid of NGAs they are a complete joke. No academy player is allowed to be matched in the first 2 rounds

The thing is if someone drafts a Swans kid they take a risk of them wanting to go home seeing that part of the reason the academy was introduced to fight the go home factor hurting these clubs disproportionately it still achieves its goals

Until the % of home grown talent per list is equal then no, no goals are being achieved. Even with the academy the swans have only 12 home grown players on the list, less than half of collingwoods. There is a clear cut advantage for VIC clubs in that respect why is it so hard for you lot to fathom?

At least with the academy you have a club pumping in its own resources to produce something. Yet here you are laughing off any idea to scrap the old father son chestnut despite the fact that you do nothing to earn the rights for that player. Just so happens a previous player mated and produced offspring. It's traditional romance and nothing else.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Waterman for the Eagles and you would be hard pressed to find any player who’s kids are getting selected under the farther son rule who’s old man didn’t play 100 games concurrently with the Eagles being in the comp.

Port have a number of good father son prospects starting to come through

Doesn't matter if they have prospects, some clubs at any given time will have more prospects than others, which is inequality, therefore should be scrapped along with the academy picks.

 

[Seedsfan]

Until the % of home grown talent per list is equal then no, no goals are being achieved. Even with the academy the swans have only 12 home grown players on the list, less than half of collingwoods. There is a clear cut advantage for VIC clubs in that respect why is it so hard for you lot to fathom?

At least with the academy you have a club pumping in its own resources to produce something. Yet here you are laughing off any idea to scrap the old father son chestnut despite the fact that you do nothing to earn the rights for that player. Just so happens a previous player mated and produced offspring. It's traditional romance and nothing else.

And that 2mill a year is it under the football department tax?

Open your eyes and have a look at the bigger picture buddy

 

[Seedsfan]

Doesn't matter if they have prospects, some clubs at any given time will have more prospects than others, which is inequality, therefore should be scrapped along with the academy picks.

F/S prospects is something all clubs can benefit from and if the one thing that was held onto when were were forced to hand over development of our own talent and pathways. To be honest if I had my way I would scrap the draft for an NRL style zone pathways but I know that will never happen

 

[zyzzbruh]

And that 2mill a year is it under the football department tax?

Open your eyes and have a look at the bigger picture buddy

I definitely am. Even if it were a tax write off the big picture still clearly shows a VIC home player advantage lol. So who's looking at the big picture? Would you give up Daicos and all future father sons if it meant the academy was scrapped? Because the only thing being pumped into that is an ex player pumping out a child. Or are you going to wait till buddy's kid chooses Sydney before you throw your arms up.

 

[zyzzbruh]

F/S prospects is something all clubs can benefit from and if the one thing that was held onto when were were forced to hand over development of our own talent and pathways. To be honest if I had my way I would scrap the draft for an NRL style zone pathways but I know that will never happen

It's not tho. There will never be an equal level of f/s prospect coming through at all clubs, so I don't get how you can continue trying to defend it. That's not even taking into consideration that f/s is there purely for romance. Other than tradition there is 0 reason why the f/s rule should exist.

 

[Seedsfan]

I definitely am. Even if it were a tax write off the big picture still clearly shows a VIC home player advantage lol. So who's looking at the big picture? Would you give up Daicos and all future father sons if it meant the academy was scrapped? Because the only thing being pumped into that is an ex player pumping out a child. Or are you going to wait till buddy's kid chooses Sydney before you throw your arms up.

Could not care less if Buds kid plays in Sydney.

It’s not about giving something up to get something scrapped. You raised Buds boy as a perfect example all clubs stand to benefit from a father son the academies provide a far greater and more unfair access to talent. You talk about Sydney puts in money but what is your point no other club has the opportunity to put money in. Do you think big Melbourne clubs wouldn’t spend the money for an academy down here? Open both eyes and have an objective look at it son

 

[zyzzbruh]

Could not care less if Buds kid plays in Sydney.

It’s not about giving something up to get something scrapped. You raised Buds boy as a perfect example all clubs stand to benefit from a father son the academies provide a far greater and more unfair access to talent. You talk about Sydney puts in money but what is your point no other club has the opportunity to put money in. Do you think big Melbourne clubs wouldn’t spend the money for an academy down here? Open both eyes and have an objective look at it son

Lmfao open my eyes? open your eyes as to why the academy exists in the first place. Melbourne don't need an academy because 90% of the talent pool comes from melbourne. I just said we only have 12 home grown players compared to you 20+. Are you actually thick? Do you not see the VIC advantage in that? Do you not see how the academy tries to stem that advantage?? Do you not also see we don't get the player for free, it still costs a pick.

idc that the f/s rule exits, i'm personally a traditionalist. I'm only bringing it up because you're defending something that has 0 reason to exist. Please tell me why you believe it is beneficial for the f/s rule to exist?? Other than tradition because that is pure romance, not a benefit.

 

[Seedsfan]

Lmfao open my eyes? open your eyes as to why the academy exists in the first place. Melbourne don't need an academy because 90% of the talent pool comes from melbourne. I just said we only have 12 home grown players compared to you 20+. Are you actually thick? Do you not see the VIC advantage in that? Do you not see how the academy tries to stem that advantage?? Do you not also see we don't get the player for free, it still costs a pick.

idc that the f/s rule exits, i'm personally a traditionalist. I'm only bringing it up because you're defending something that has 0 reason to exist. Please tell me why you believe it is beneficial for the f/s rule to exist?? Other than tradition because that is pure romance, not a benefit.

You ask am I thick and then come out with ridiculous calls that are blatantly untrue. You claim 90% of the talent pool comes from Melbourne when it is actually 53% now when you consider that 58% of the comp is situated down here it’s not the massive advantage as it’s made out to be.

My opinion is the draft and academies can’t co-exist I would get rid of the draft and go back to having zones/academies

 

[Shadow89]

You ask am I thick and then come out with ridiculous calls that are blatantly untrue. You claim 90% of the talent pool comes from Melbourne when it is actually 53% now when you consider that 58% of the comp is situated down here it’s not the massive advantage as it’s made out to be.

My opinion is the draft and academies can’t co-exist I would get rid of the draft and go back to having zones/academies

Sweet. Time to draft us some falcons...

 

[Seedsfan]

Sweet. Time to draft us some falcons...

Broncos have the biggest zone in the NRL. Doesn’t always equal success

 

[zyzzbruh]

You ask am I thick and then come out with ridiculous calls that are blatantly untrue. You claim 90% of the talent pool comes from Melbourne when it is actually 53% now when you consider that 58% of the comp is situated down here it’s not the massive advantage as it’s made out to be.

My opinion is the draft and academies can’t co-exist I would get rid of the draft and go back to having zones/academies

It only evens out thanks to the academy. If all 9 other Melbourne clubs have a pick before yours, you're still going to more than likely have the ability to choose the next best VIC based 1st round rated player. Where as if we had a pick after 9 other clubs, we would've had no chance of picking up mills, heeney or blakey, and the chance in those years of picking up the next top rated NSW kid was 0, because there were none after those mentioned. There's you clear cut VIC advantage which the academy has been implemented to stem. And even with that, our % of home grown talent is still significantly low.

So please tell me how that isn't a liable reason as to why the academy system exists for interstate clubs...

 

[The Gong]

Waterman for the Eagles and you would be hard pressed to find any player who’s kids are getting selected under the farther son rule who’s old man didn’t play 100 games concurrently with the Eagles being in the comp.

Port have a number of good father son prospects starting to come through

List of players drafted to the Australian Football League under the father–son rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ben Cousins, Ashley McIntosh, Mitch Morton and Jacob Brennan were also father/son selections for West Coast. They drew from the WAFL for their selections.

 

[Shadow89]

Broncos have the biggest zone in the NRL. Doesn’t always equal success

Nah, but, the Falcons are pretty much one of the most successful underage comp sides, and we always want them home eventually, so I would have no problem eliminating all the years between and just getting priority access to them every year. Would add Sam Walsh, Travis Boak, Taylor Adams, Devon Smith, Darcy Parish, Charlie Curnow, Tom Doedee, Olly Henry, Tanner Bruhn, Charlie Lazarro etc. etc.

I've been a firm believer for many years that our club could subsist entirely off local zoning without the draft - would have not one problem if that's the model we eventually ended up with - not there's any actual chance of that ever happening.

 

[The Gong]

Nah, but, the Falcons are pretty much one of the most successful underage comp sides, and we always want them home eventually, so I would have no problem eliminating all the years between and just getting priority access to them every year. Would add Walsh, Boak, Taylor Adams, Devon Smith, Darcy Parish, Charlie Curnow, Tom Doedee, Olly Henry, Tanner Bruhn, Charlie Lazarro etc. etc.

I've been a firm believer for many years that our club could subsist entirely of local zoning without the draft - would have not one problem if that's the model we eventually ended up with - not there's any actual chance of that ever happening.

So you don't see that as an advantage at all for Geelong? Generating elite talent with a strong go home factor?

 

[Shadow89]

So you don't see that as an advantage at all for Geelong? Generating elite talent with a strong go home factor?

It's not really an advantage when they don't come home until they're in their late 20's lol - if at all. Miss out on a lot of their peak years, even when we do encourage them to return. If they're halfway decent, then we still end up having to pay around/more than what they were drafted at, most of the time.

What would be an advantage, is if we had the same sort of priority access to those players early on, that Sydney and the Northern clubs do. Obviously the AFL contributes to the league as a whole, but we invest a lot of time and money into the Falcons as well - for no immediate reward. Have always found that annoying given how closely linked the Falcons are to Geelong as an entity.

 

[zyzzbruh]

It's not really an advantage when they don't come home until they're in their late 20's lol. Miss out on a lot of their peak years

It is an advantage, because regardless of age you have a plethora of players ready to come home whilst NSW clubs have next to nothing. Hence the need for an academy.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Sweet. Time to draft us some falcons...

I’m happy with that. Problem will be the talent distribution in metropolitan Melbourne. Too many clubs.

 

[Shadow89]

It is an advantage, because regardless of age you have a plethora of players ready to come home whilst NSW clubs have next to nothing. Hence the need for an academy.

That's fair enough, however, as has been said ad nauseam throughout this thread, it shouldn't entitle you to get a Top 5 kid every year from the Academy, plus your own first round draft pick - to somehow compensate for this. Otherwise, as I have repeated many times over, you're essentially saying that Campbell, Mills and Blakey should be given to you outside the draft due to your investment, and you should then just be able to use your own first round pick to pick someone else you didn't invest money into via your academy.

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Is this salty thread STILL going?

Such a shame Victorians cannot comprehend other australian cultures where AFL is not #1 on the sports news cycle.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

It's not really an advantage when they don't come home until they're in their late 20's lol - if at all. Miss out on a lot of their peak years, even when we do encourage them to return. If they're halfway decent, then we still end up having to pay around/more than what they were drafted at, most of the time.

What would be an advantage, is if we had the same sort of priority access to those players early on, that Sydney and the Northern clubs do. Obviously the AFL contributes to the league as a whole, but we invest a lot of time and money into the Falcons as well - for no immediate reward. Have always found that annoying given how closely linked the Falcons are to Geelong as an entity.

Come on mate. The exodus out of Brisbane claiming homesickness was at serious crisis point a few years ago. Sure it’s incumbent on northern clubs to be “good clubs” to prevent that but a single year, a single crisis, a single poor coaching appointment can destroy a club in very quick time with the Vic vultures hovering.

 

[Shadow89]

I’m happy with that. Problem will be the talent distribution in metropolitan Melbourne. Too many clubs.

Syooo...can we backdate this, cause I wouldn't mind seeing Tom McCartin down back for us this weekend...

Haha, but seriously, it's completely fanciful for an absolute multitude of reasons - that being a serious one. It would however, force clubs to invest from early on, and organically eliminate clubs that don't put time, money and effort into developing their kids from an early age. Would lead to some clubs actually having to work for it, rather than just getting handed it through the draft. Would also make it more likely there'd be a national competition a lot sooner...

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

That's fair enough, however, as has been said ad nauseam throughout this thread, it shouldn't entitle you to get a Top 5 kid every year from the Academy, plus your own first round draft pick - to somehow compensate for this. Otherwise, as I have repeated many times over, you're essentially saying that Campbell, Mills and Blakey should be given to you outside the draft due to your investment, and you should then just be able to use your own first round pick to pick someone else you didn't invest money into via your academy.

We don’t get a top 5 kid every year from the Academy plus our own first round pick. That has occurred once. In a year we finished 16th.