2nds Sydney Swans Ressies 2010

[grimlock]

This article talks about the second-tier competition in the event of GC17 and GWS joining the AFL.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-teams-put-vfl-in-the-gun-20100304-plr8.html

3 options
1) Eastern seaboard comp - 14 of the 18 clubs (the 2 WA and 2 SA teams excluded) participate either with standalone reserves teams or their VFL affiliates
2) Northern states league - Swans, Lions, GC17 and GWS reserves along with the 'strongest' ACT teams
3) Status quo - GC17 join AFLQ and GWS join AFL Canberra.

Option 1 would be bloody awesome!

 

[BIGBEZ]

Port Melbourne is a stand alone club what happens to us?

 

[CAS79]

This article talks about the second-tier competition in the event of GC17 and GWS joining the AFL.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/new-teams-put-vfl-in-the-gun-20100304-plr8.html

3 options
1) Eastern seaboard comp - 14 of the 18 clubs (the 2 WA and 2 SA teams excluded) participate either with standalone reserves teams or their VFL affiliates
2) Northern states league - Swans, Lions, GC17 and GWS reserves along with the 'strongest' ACT teams
3) Status quo - GC17 join AFLQ and GWS join AFL Canberra.

Option 1 would be bloody awesome!

Option 1 would be great but I also think it's not so likely, a few VFL clubs are not keen on the idea. It is also as Bez has pointed out messing a little with history to remove Port Melbourne from the VFL competition.

Option 2 is my next preferred but I like a mixture of ACT and QFL teams but if it came down to one the QFL is a more effective competition.

I say this in relation to what you have posted and remain cautions as I remember Robbie's warning

Warning to anyone who "wishes" to take this thread off topic. Infractions will be issued as per usual. This thread is for discussion for the the Reserves and NOT what competiton the Reserves should or should not be playing in. Other I expect another year of enlighted information about the developement of our young players in the reserves from our many watcher of the reserves who keep us all up to date and informed.

If I'm respondong to comments from a mod Im ok am I not?

 

[grimlock]

Rob's warning I believe is a pre-emptive strike to prevent this thread following in the footsteps of past Reserves threads - i.e. a gradual deterioration in the discussion into a denigration of the standard of the Canberra competition. This has upset some visting posters with interests in that comp and eventually led to a non-productive slanging match. I think we can be mature enough to discuss these potential future arrangements without having to resort to these pointless arguments.

Having said that, if robbieando wants to move this to another thread and give me a swift kick up the bum I'd be happy to cop that on the chin (or cheek in this case)

 

[bedford]

Robbies post was a warning to me i would say lol, but i am still entitled to my opinion on where our Ressies should play. The ACT is a very good comp, but it is my belief that is not the best way for our younger players. As i have said before the Port Melb. model served us and Port well with two Grand Final appearences against a Geelong side that contained the basis of their present gun team. Hopefully an eastenn Ressies comp would suit our needs better.
I thing i will say is that the posters on here that go to the games give us great reports.
Sorry if this post is the wrong spot Robbie as i am not trying to offend anyone.

 

[CAS79]

Does anyone know about practice games?

The ressies season does not start to 10 of April and for the sake of the main side i'd certainly like to hear by that stage the guys out of the senior side are playing some practice match somewhere to make sure their juices and form a flowing, id hate to have a few injuries in round 2 and the guys replacing them coming into the side match cold.

 

[bedford]

That is one of my main concerns

 

[BIGBEZ]

That is one of my main concerns

Tell em bedford...

 

[bedford]

The interesting thing is that now the AFL is finally looking at either an Eastern seaboard comp. or an 18 team ressies. This depends on the TV rights being big enough to pay for it. Or the alternative is a 14 team comp without the SA or WA teams, which in my opiniopn would be the best for us.

 

[BarneyBent]

The interesting thing is that now the AFL is finally looking at either an Eastern seaboard comp. or an 18 team ressies. This depends on the TV rights being big enough to pay for it. Or the alternative is a 14 team comp without the SA or WA teams, which in my opiniopn would be the best for us.

With all these bloody digital channels now, they should be able to flog some TV rights for ressies games to help pay for them. Maybe just to Foxtel. Almost certainly not live. But still, make a bit of money out of that, and sponsorship.

I mean, if a national netball competition can stay afloat with some decent broadcasting, a national 2nd division to the biggest competition in Australia should as well.

 

[BIGBEZ]

Personally Id love to see a traditional reserves comp and as far as tv revenue goes, Id pay to watch ressie games aswell, I already watch every game I can whoevers playing or get to games early and watch both. Logistically how much harder could it be? Also the ressies would have the benefit of playing the best grounds with crowds and having all the senior staff/players at every game can only be good for development and club culture, its what footy clubs are all about.

 

[liz]

The interesting thing is that now the AFL is finally looking at either an Eastern seaboard comp. or an 18 team ressies. This depends on the TV rights being big enough to pay for it. Or the alternative is a 14 team comp without the SA or WA teams, which in my opiniopn would be the best for us.

The cynical amongst us might wonder why it's taking the introduction of GC17 and GWS for the AFL to realise that the Swans and Lions have it far from perfect in developing their younger players. I have defended the Swans participation in the Canberra league because I thought it the best of the viable options currently available. But clearly it is far from perfect.

Will be interesting to see how a reserves competiton works out, if the AFL goes that way. In year gone by, when there was a reserves comp, AFL lists were bigger than they currently are. If the Swans had been in a higher standard league last season we would have been in serious difficulty of fielding an adequate team for much of the year because of injuries. Our seniors had a reasonable run but so many of the younger players suffered long term injuries that for half the season we struggled to get 10 listed players on the ground. The rest were absolute kids, some good, some mediocre and almost all not physically ready for even ACT senior football. We barely got by, and were soundly beaten in many games.

In contrast, the Vic teams play alongside senior VFL players. Some are young, but there are sufficient strong bodied players who are decent at that level. In a true reserves comp, where will the top-ups come from, and how on earth with the VFL survive if clubs suddenly have to find squads of 40 odd, without reliance on developing and fringe AFL players.

I suspect that the impact on the VFL will be too severe for the AFL to revert to a reserves comp (with or without the Adelaide and Perth teams). I suspect we will get a Queensland, NSW, ACT comp with the four reserves teams of the AFL clubs, and the rest made up from stand-alone teams from each state. The issue with top-ups might not be so much of an issue, though I don't think any team will be able to field teams that comprise 10 or more 16 and 17 year olds. GWS and G17 may be OK for a while because they will have much larger squads for the first few seasons. It will be a challenge for the Lions and Swans and they will need extra cash to support supplementary lists (as clubs used to have).

 

[bedford]

It might spell the end of Port, Bez. It just shows how much the AFL has f ed footy, no problems with the National Comp, but they should have left the VFA alone. That meant keeping the Ressies and the under 19's, instead of an under 18 league where its not about the kids and if they miss out on a spot their gone to the system, but the old way they still have a chance. Thats how we got Dale Lewis, picked out of North Ballarat into the Swans Ressies on the MCG 32 possies and the rest is history, thats what its about.

 

[bedford]

Liz, the AFL have enough to support it and at the moment they support the VFL teams which costs a fair bit of cash. This way the clubs would be more responsible for their own development, which i would believe would benefit us if we have our own zone.

 

[grimlock]

Please enlighten fans, like myself, who weren't following AFL back in the days of the reserves. How did the AFL manage to maintain the competition, both financially and logistically in terms of playing lists? Did they have bigger lists back then? I recall hearing that Kirk was on a supplementary list, meaning he could play for the reserves but not for the seniors.

 

[bedford]

Please enlighten fans, like myself, who weren't following AFL back in the days of the reserves. How did the AFL manage to maintain the competition, both financially and logistically in terms of playing lists? Did they have bigger lists back then? I recall hearing that Kirk was on a supplementary list, meaning he could play for the reserves but not for the seniors.

Grim, it was about 48 players on the main list and you could bring others in like a Dale Lewis, you could throw a kid into the Ressies and see how they went and it was tough footy. Now they are in the system, you can't add, but it is getting better with the various rookie types, from kids to Internationals.

 

[grimlock]

What do you mean by throw a kid in? You mean they could play any unregistered player?

 

[CAS79]

Please enlighten fans, like myself, who weren't following AFL back in the days of the reserves. How did the AFL manage to maintain the competition, both financially and logistically in terms of playing lists? Did they have bigger lists back then? I recall hearing that Kirk was on a supplementary list, meaning he could play for the reserves but not for the seniors.

Correct Grimlock.

Lists were bigger, in fact we may now have the smallest lists in the history of the comp. As traditionly lists grew on zones, players could be added to the clubs list by inviting themselves to training and even though they were never going to get a firsts gig but there to be part of the reserves team. In fact bedford can fill you in that part much more than I.

As lists got smaller and restricted, supplementary listed players were brought into to cover the reserves gaps. These TBH were not always the best of the VFA but came from other comps. Brad Hodge was on Melbourne's sup list for a while.

I cant see the clubs in the western states signing up to a ressies comp but the Eagles nor the Crows were ever part of the old one. But regardless it is by far and away the best option for any club in NSW or Queensland.

 

[CAS79]

What do you mean by throw a kid in? You mean they could play any unregistered player?

If they were in your zone and cleared to you by their existing club than yep.

But u 19 lists were large with a lot of hopefuls and the clubs wanted first bite at talent so the U 19 lists were often lengthy too just to make sure.

 

[BIGBEZ]

Thats the thing bedford, when you say 'throw a kid in the ressies and see how he goes' Im assuming you mean from the U'19's like in the old days, it was even better watching them get thrown straight into the seniors like David Rhys Jones or other champions of the game, I guess the list was even bigger when you could play the under 19's aswell.

 

[liz]

Grim, it was about 48 players on the main list and you could bring others in like a Dale Lewis, you could throw a kid into the Ressies and see how they went and it was tough footy. Now they are in the system, you can't add, but it is getting better with the various rookie types, from kids to Internationals.

I couldn't remember how big the list sizes were. I didn't think it was quite as many as 48 but I am going from pure memory so am probably wrong. I do remember the list size gradually decreasing from 42 and then to 40 and then down to the base size it currently is of 38. But to some extent that happened alongside the growth of the rookie list.

I recall the old team lists having as many as half a dozen or so supplementary players too, though few lasted for more than a season.

I don't think there is anything to stop a club having a supplementary player nowadays, though they are outside the normal system. The Swans had someone on their list two or three years ago who had been close to getting a rookie spot but missed out. But presumably these players have to be paid something, even if it isn't much. And with the Swans cutting back on rookies in recent years - presumably partly to do with finances - supporting a full reserves team would pull resources from somewhere else unless the AFL (or TV rights) stumped up more cash.

 

[CAS79]

I couldn't remember how big the list sizes were. I didn't think it was quite as many as 48 but I am going from pure memory so am probably wrong. I do remember the list size gradually decreasing from 42 and then to 40 and then down to the base size it currently is of 38. But to some extent that happened alongside the growth of the rookie list.

I recall the old team lists having as many as half a dozen or so supplementary players too, though few lasted for more than a season.

I don't think there is anything to stop a club having a supplementary player nowadays, though they are outside the normal system. The Swans had someone on their list two or three years ago who had been close to getting a rookie spot but missed out. But presumably these players have to be paid something, even if it isn't much. And with the Swans cutting back on rookies in recent years - presumably partly to do with finances - supporting a full reserves team would pull resources from somewhere else unless the AFL (or TV rights) stumped up more cash.

How would supporting a full reserves team be any different to now Liz. We still need to play the ressies and we probably would benefit from being able to play our full list without restriction. Not so many toppies and could focus on our scholarship and academy talent as supp players.

All in a better comp?

 

[bedford]

Liz, the AFL is pumping up the VFL as it is to a fair extent the same as the TAC Cup so it would make clubs more accountable to look after their own if they have to have bigger lists, why does it have to so regimented. There are players out there who are good enough to play AFL , but because they wern't controlled by the Gestapo they never get a chance.

 

[BIGBEZ]

A little off topic, I read an article in the sun this morning about Kirk and his son joining some new junior development scheme where talented kids as young as 9 will be part of the club, this sounds interesting for future development and zoning, Im surprised no talk of it on our board and I dont know how to do a link.

 

[bedford]

Yes ,Bez there ws a good pic of Kirk and young Indhi in the Melb Herald Sun this morning. The Swans will start training these kids at 9yo, great stuff this , we are so far ahead of the rest in AFL terms.