Preview Sydney vs GWS - Who are the 5 most hated players in the AFL?

[caesar88]

I agree with most that Kennedy should be sub.

If he does start, from a team balance perspective I would want to see him share mid time with Parker (who could take turns with Kennedy resting up forward) and Mills (who would rest down back). This would enable Kennedy to play to his strengths in the mids without impacting speed in the mids too much.

Who would be unlucky? I think it would be Clarke, which pains me to say. But I think Parker as a half forward is more valuable than Clarke, so I could understand it if coaches took this approach.

Another option could be Mills to half back and McInery misses out.

While I prefer both of these scenarios to Kennedy trying to play back or on a wing, they all feel like trying to find a role for Kennedy rather than trying to select the best team possible. Just make him sub.

Good post. I feel like a lot of posts that advocate for a certain player to be brought in (any player, not just JPK) don't offer a sacrificial lamb. And there always has to be a sacrificial lamb. It's the case when a player moves positions, it's the case when a player is brought into the 22, it's the case when a recruit is traded to the club. Changes have consequences for other players.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Ian Roberts.

ha
roberts was my favourite league player when he was at souths
i hated that he went to manly, can't stand the club, but he was still one of my faves
one of the toughest footballers i've seen, and in rugby league in that era he'd have had to have been

 

[RubbaDuck]

And you don't need to tell me of Hewett's value in a midfield. Aside from caesar88, I'm probably the most vocal about that. We did have Mills, JPK missing and an underdone Warner, but Hewett's last game for us was testament to him.

The loss of Hewett was Carlton's gain but not so much our loss. He was and still is a very good midfielder. But, let's be honest, he's now surplus to requirements. JPK was and is still a level above George. So if Kennedy can't force his way in to the midfield then we certainly didn't need Hewett. Letting Hewett go and taking Josh out of the midfield was a risk, but Horse & Co. made the call to bring a new generation of mids through as well as to save some cap. With 20:20 hindsight, we can see Horse made the right call, and we've still got Kennedy when we need him.

Kennedy just didn't click in a role similar to McVeigh. Macca was a brilliant disposer by foot, who read the field and set up plays ,but he also organised the defence with his All Australian pointing skills. Kennedy's reads the play as well but his strength remains the contested ball.

Seeing him in the VFL at the weekend.I realised why it doesn't matter that Kennedy's lost a step in pace. He collects and dispenses the ball so quickly, he doesn't hesitate. He seems to know in advance exactly where and who to go to next. If a tackler tries to run him down and Josh is already moving onto the next play. He doesn't have to run fast as long as he can keep moving to put himself into the next play, long before the play has happened.

He doesn't have to chase hard to tackle because when an oppo player receives the ball there's Kennedy, already within reach with his long arms. One touch is enough and he hauls his prey in like spiderman. One finger is enough. They stay tackled, whereas if he's ever tackled he shrugs it off or stands and delivers,with no hesitation.

At centre bounces Kennedy picks up on the opposition's spread before it happens. He just stops them, like 'Where do you think you're going with that football Mate?' He's one step ahead of the play. That more than makes up for any lack of pace.

I've said before, Kennedy's most valuable against an opposition who dominate in tight. He can shut down the distribution of a big bodied mid or an inside accumulator, like a Tom Mitchell. He physically prevents them getting the ball to their outside runners. But if the opposition have a dominant ruck who can belt the ball out to a receiver moving in space, Kennedy loses his advantage. That's where faster guys like Warner, Florent or Blakey do their best defensive work, pressuring the ball carrier to give our back six a chance

Horses for courses.

 

[Bloods86]

The loss of Hewett was Carlton's gain but not so much our loss. He was and still is a very good midfielder. But, let's be honest, he's now surplus to requirements. JPK was and is still a level above George. So if Kennedy can't force his way in to the midfield then we certainly didn't need Hewett. Letting Hewett go and taking Josh out of the midfield was a risk, but Horse & Co. made the call to bring a new generation of mids through as well as to save some cap. With 20:20 hindsight, we can see Horse made the right call, and we've still got Kennedy when we need him.

Kennedy just didn't click in a role similar to McVeigh. Macca was a brilliant disposer by foot, who read the field and set up plays ,but he also organised the defence with his All Australian pointing skills. Kennedy's reads the play as well but his strength remains the contested ball.

Seeing him in the VFL at the weekend.I realised why it doesn't matter that Kennedy's lost a step in pace. He collects and dispenses the ball so quickly, he doesn't hesitate. He seems to know in advance exactly where and who to go to next. If a tackler tries to run him down and Josh is already moving onto the next play. He doesn't have to run fast as long as he can keep moving to put himself into the next play, long before the play has happened.

He doesn't have to chase hard to tackle because when an oppo player receives the ball there's Kennedy, already within reach with his long arms. One touch is enough and he hauls his prey in like spiderman. One finger is enough. They stay tackled, whereas if he's ever tackled he shrugs it off or stands and delivers,with no hesitation.

At centre bounces Kennedy picks up on the opposition's spread before it happens. He just stops them, like 'Where do you think you're going with that football Mate?' He's one step ahead of the play. That more than makes up for any lack of pace.

I've said before, Kennedy's most valuable against an opposition who dominate in tight. He can shut down the distribution of a big bodied mid or an inside accumulator, like a Tom Mitchell. He physically prevents them getting the ball to their outside runners. But if the opposition have a dominant ruck who can belt the ball out to a receiver moving in space, Kennedy loses his advantage. That's where faster guys like Warner, Florent or Blakey do their best defensive work, pressuring the ball carrier to give our back six a chance

Horses for courses.

I love Kennedy and think he still has value in the midfield, but needs the circumstances to change for that to happen (one of 4 players to be removed from midfield - Parker, Mills, Rowy or Warner). But I lost interest once I read that Hewett wasn't so much a loss and is surplus to requirements. I've litigated that in the past, not going to bother again, we'll just have to disagree.

 

[kickthething]

Who goes to Israel Folau?

Ian Roberts

ha
roberts was my favourite league player when he was at souths
i hated that he went to manly, can't stand the club, but he was still one of my faves
one of the toughest footballers i've seen, and in rugby league in that era he'd have had to have been

some of his efforts for Australia were next lecel

 

[Bloods86]

oh lookity look look. It is a Kennedy Club fanboi. Yet another turkey wanting to totally change our game styles so we can play Joey.

Tell me genius how jpk fits into and augments our transition or precision passing game. Kennedy is Hickey speed nowadays.

See this is why I and others are being lumped into the disrespecting JPK group of about 1 or 2 people that I've seen. We all should be fans. I also don't think, say if you switched Parker to the forward line and put JPK in the middle, it would be completely changing our game style. Assuming JPK could perform regularly to Parker levels (which I think is in question these days), then that could actually be a positive. I don't think the coaches are remotely thinking of doing that though, and JPK has been mixed in the midfield this year, so I don't think that would work out consistently. If there's an injury to one of those 4 mids I've mentioned, then he's our best replacement, and can be a useful sub as long as it's a 2nd half substitution where he comes on fresh to battle against tiring oppo mids. If he comes in, there's not really a reason to expect the coaches will do anything differently, and they'll play him in a variety of roles, then no-one will be happy.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

See this is why I and others are being lumped into the disrespecting JPK group of about 1 or 2 people that I've seen. We all should be fans. I also don't think, say if you switched Parker to the forward line and put JPK in the middle, it would be completely changing our game style. Assuming JPK could perform regularly to Parker levels (which I think is in question these days), then that could actually be a positive. I don't think the coaches are remotely thinking of doing that though, and JPK has been mixed in the midfield this year, so I don't think that would work out consistently. If there's an injury to one of those 4 mids I've mentioned, then he's our best replacement, and can be a useful sub as long as it's a 2nd half substitution where he comes on fresh to battle against tiring oppo mids. If he comes in, there's not really a reason to expect the coaches will do anything differently, and they'll play him in a variety of roles, then no-one will be happy.

Many times I have supported his inclusion as the sub but not i the 22 and certainly not in the mids.

It was an error for him to play on this year.

 

[Bloods86]

Many times I have supported his inclusion as the sub but not i the 22 and certainly not in the mids.

It was an error for him to play on this year.

Right, so if Parker, Rowy or Mills goes down in the lead up to finals, who are we bringing in? Roberts, Sheldrick, who have played 1 game each, Taylor?, putting Clarke into the mids? Him playing on was/is fine.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Right, so if Parker, Rowy or Mills goes down in the lead up to finals, who are we bringing in? Roberts, Sheldrick, who have played 1 game each, Taylor?, putting Clarke into the mids? Him playing on was/is fine.

More Paps and some Ollie time and probably JMac.

 

[Bloods86]

More Paps and some Ollie time and probably JMac.

But that's more changing our game style than plugging JPK in for one of the others, especially Parker, Mills, Rowy! Paps, JMac will receive the ball or run onto it rather than get it first or swallow an opponent, though Paps is generally keen to get in amongst it. Similar for Ollie, who we'd then have to remove from half-back, a position he's doing well in.

 

[Bloods86]

Anyway, for my thoughts (...), I'd probably give JPK another full game in reserves, then look to bring him into the 22, as a mid, and rest the mid who needs it most, or play them up forward (e.g. Parker) against North. Whether he keeps his spot in the 22 after that, we'll see. At least this week we can afford to choose our best sub, since reserves is post-seniors at the SCG. Though I wouldn't be disappointed, for versatility, if that were Cunningham (anywhere but a key position) or Sheldrick (fwd/mid).

 

[swanssince2002]

If Stephens, Clarke or Fox make way for JPK this round the thread page count would increase by 4 in a matter of minutes

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Anyway, for my thoughts (...), I'd probably give JPK another full game in reserves, then look to bring him into the 22, as a mid, and rest the mid who needs it most, or play them up forward (e.g. Parker) against North. Whether he keeps his spot in the 22 after that, we'll see. At least this week we can afford to choose our best sub, since reserves is post-seniors at the SCG. Though I wouldn't be disappointed, for versatility, if that were Cunningham (anywhere but a key position) or Sheldrick (fwd/mid).

Kennedy should only play as an emergency and only when there is a genuine injury. Can we stop trying to fit him in, weirdly him getting injured wasn't the worst thing for our side it forced the coaches to do what most we're seeing.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Kennedy should only play as an emergency and only when there is a genuine injury. Can we stop trying to fit him in, weirdly him getting injured wasn't the worst thing for our side it forced the coaches to do what most we're seeing.

yep
i love kennedy and what he's been for our team
i'm certainly not advocating immediate retirement, although i asked a question earlier this week as to whether it might be on the horizon
but he has no role in our best 22 at the moment and injury to certain mids seems the only thing that might open a place for him
it has been the way with club greats in the past, maxfield and o'keefe come to mind ...

 

[LukeParkerno1]

yep
i love kennedy and what he's been for our team
i'm certainly not advocating immediate retirement, although i asked a question earlier this week as to whether it might be on the horizon
but he has no role in our best 22 at the moment and injury to certain mids seems the only thing that might open a place for him
it has been the way with club greats in the past, maxfield and o'keefe come to mind ...

Yep, he'd be the perfect sub thorough finals but honestly unless Parker or Mills get injured where is his role? He was awful at HB, he's too slow to be outside, and he's average up forward. He was always a pure inside mid. That's it.

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

oh lookity look look. It is a Kennedy Club fanboi. Yet another turkey wanting to totally change our game styles so we can play Joey.

Tell me genius how jpk fits into and augments our transition or precision passing game. Kennedy is Hickey speed nowadays.

I don’t think Kennedy’s inclusion will change our game style. It will only enhance our ability to win the pill in the middle of the ground.

He plays inside mid rotating half forward. Between Parker and Mills, two other players not blessed with pace.

Granted, half back / wing, were not his best positions this season prior to injury.

The aim for mine should be to use Kennedy as the sub, but he does need to get some game time and as such should give a few of our younger midfielders a break over the next few weeks, hopefully to freshen up. Starting with Gulden this week, who took a heavy hit from Franklin last week.

Swans have never had a better midfield extractor in the last 25yrs or in my opinion, a better finals player. Finals are a different ball game than the free flowing football and pretty ball movement of some of the home and away.

Finals are won in the contest and JPK is the bull I want to be playing to win the ball so the Warners, McInerneys, Guldens, Stephens and others can use the ball and hit a target.

This bloke has gone to war for us so many times, and won, he deserves more supporters in his corner.

 

[caesar88]

I don’t think Kennedy’s inclusion will change our game style. It will only enhance our ability to win the pill in the middle of the ground.

He plays inside mid rotating half forward. Between Parker and Mills, two other players not blessed with pace.

Granted, half back / wing, were not his best positions this season prior to injury.

The aim for mine should be to use Kennedy as the sub, but he does need to get some game time and as such should give a few of our younger midfielders a break over the next few weeks, hopefully to freshen up. Starting with Gulden this week, who took a heavy hit from Franklin last week.

Swans have never had a better midfield extractor in the last 25yrs or in my opinion, a better finals player. Finals are a different ball game than the free flowing football and pretty ball movement of some of the home and away.

Finals are won in the contest and JPK is the bull I want to be playing to win the ball so the Warners, McInerneys, Guldens, Stephens and others can use the ball and hit a target.

This bloke has gone to war for us so many times, and won, he deserves more supporters in his corner.

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, but this is another example of referring to the player JPK was, not the player JPK is. As I've so often been told, the coach knows best, and the coach very deliberately wasn't playing JPK in the mids. Why would that be? As much as Horse is trying to rebuild our midfield, he would not do so to the detriment of the teams prospects. If he thought JPK was in our best midfield, he would've played him there. Instead he kept the longest and best-serving mid he's ever coached out of the mids. Don't you think there has to be a reason for this?

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, but this is another example of referring to the player JPK was, not the player JPK is. As I've so often been told, the coach knows best, and the coach very deliberately wasn't playing JPK in the mids. Why would that be? As much as Horse is trying to rebuild our midfield, he would not do so to the detriment of the teams prospects. If he thought JPK was in our best midfield, he would've played him there. Instead he kept the longest and best-serving mid he's ever coached out of the mids. Don't you think there has to be a reason for this?

It’s already been said that the reason for keeping Kennedy out of the mids was to give our younger midfield group more experience and time playing in the centre. Eg - Rowy and Warner in particular have flourished.

There will be a time where we will need Kennedy in the centre and his time is certainly not over.

I have also used the example of Hewett of last year, who was playing half back majority of the year but played in the guts for a final v GWS.

Let’s see how it plays out. I hope Kennedy comes back in this week and builds to be able to add value to the team for the finals.

 

[Millky95]

100% if Parker or Mills go down JPK comes in. Hell even if Warner or Rowbottom go down I'd expect it. Unless Gus or Roberts are putting in dominating performances.

If Taylor was gonna get picked as in inside mid, I think he would have done so already. But he would be behind JPK easily

 

[Bloods86]

I don’t think Kennedy’s inclusion will change our game style. It will only enhance our ability to win the pill in the middle of the ground.

He plays inside mid rotating half forward. Between Parker and Mills, two other players not blessed with pace.

Granted, half back / wing, were not his best positions this season prior to injury.

The aim for mine should be to use Kennedy as the sub, but he does need to get some game time and as such should give a few of our younger midfielders a break over the next few weeks, hopefully to freshen up. Starting with Gulden this week, who took a heavy hit from Franklin last week.

Swans have never had a better midfield extractor in the last 25yrs or in my opinion, a better finals player. Finals are a different ball game than the free flowing football and pretty ball movement of some of the home and away.

Finals are won in the contest and JPK is the bull I want to be playing to win the ball so the Warners, McInerneys, Guldens, Stephens and others can use the ball and hit a target.

This bloke has gone to war for us so many times, and won, he deserves more supporters in his corner.

This is our centre bounce attendance % for the year. I've taken the liberty of crossing out the players that are irrelevant when it comes to JPK taking their midfield minutes, in any relevant amount to justify his place in the 22. Neither Heeney or Florent are seen in the middle anymore, or very sparingly. Gulden is at about 1 in 10 bounces. Papley is a different player (as is Gulden), and we've put him in there to be different, not another Parker, Mills, JPK.

I've floated a way to get JPK into the 22 against North next week, as a mid, by giving someone in that top 4 a rest or to play up forward. It gives us a look at JPK as a full time mid before finals, and then 2 more (higher risk) games pre-finals to go back to the top 4 (as we probably would). I doubt that will happen. Based on available evidence, he'll probably come into the side, play at half back or off the wing, and that's what we (generally) are opposing. It's nonsense to suggest that JPK doesn't have any support, or we're disrespecting him (well, ok, maybe one or two people, but it's not the majority of those saying he doesn't have a spot at the moment).

 

[Bloods86]

It’s already been said that the reason for keeping Kennedy out of the mids was to give our younger midfield group more experience and time playing in the centre. Eg - Rowy and Warner in particular have flourished.

There will be a time where we will need Kennedy in the centre and his time is certainly not over.

I have also used the example of Hewett of last year, who was playing half back majority of the year but played in the guts for a final v GWS.

Let’s see how it plays out. I hope Kennedy comes back in this week and builds to be able to add value to the team for the finals.

Hewett stopped playing back halfway through the year, co-incidentally not long after Fox came back. It wasn't like the coaches decided to throw him into the mids just in time for finals.

 

[caesar88]

It’s already been said that the reason for keeping Kennedy out of the mids was to give our younger midfield group more experience and time playing in the centre. Eg - Rowy and Warner in particular have flourished.

There will be a time where we will need Kennedy in the centre and his time is certainly not over.

I have also used the example of Hewett of last year, who was playing half back majority of the year but played in the guts for a final v GWS.

Let’s see how it plays out. I hope Kennedy comes back in this week and builds to be able to add value to the team for the finals.

But if JPK was capable of being better than Rowbottom & Warner, Horse would've played him in the mids. I think he's shown with other selections this year that he will not just prioritise youth for the sake of prioritising youth. Seems to me like he obviously liked what they were offering more than JPK. So the question remains, why would it be any different now, when both are arguably performing better than they were at the start of the year?

 

[Millky95]

This is our centre bounce attendance % for the year. I've taken the liberty of crossing out the players that are irrelevant when it comes to JPK taking their midfield minutes, in any relevant amount to justify his place in the 22. Neither Heeney or Florent are seen in the middle anymore, or very sparingly. Gulden is at about 1 in 10 bounces. Papley is a different player, and we've put him in there to be different, not another Parker, Mills, JPK.

I've floated a way to get JPK into the 22 against North next week, as a mid, by giving someone in that top 4 a rest or to play up forward. It gives us a look at JPK as a full time mid before finals, and then 2 more (higher risk) games pre-finals to go back to the top 4 (as we probably would). I doubt that will happen. Based on available evidence, he'll probably come into the side, play at half back or off the wing, and that's what we (generally) are opposing. It's nonsense to suggest that JPK doesn't have any support, or we're disrespecting him (well, ok, maybe one or two people, but it's not the majority of those saying he doesn't have a spot at the moment).

View attachment 1458638

Best way to get JPK into the mids is as the sub imo.

He can impact later and fresher. If a forward goes down we can put Parker more forward, if a back goes down we can move Mills more back. If a mid goes down, JPK slots right in.

 

[Bloods86]

Best way to get JPK into the mids is as the sub imo.

He can impact later and fresher. If a forward goes down we can put Parker more forward, if a back goes down we can move Mills more back. If a mid goes down, JPK slots right in.

Sure. I still don't fully trust the coaches, say if Fox, Florent, JMac, Blakey went down, for them not to put JPK down back and keep Mills in midfield though. It's madness, but I don't trust them.

Also the freshness/impact argument only works if the sub is made when it suits this. E.g. the Hawks game. If it happens early, watch us put JPK down back, move Florent up the ground, and the gameday thread to go nuclear.

 

[Millky95]

Sure. I still don't fully trust the coaches, say if Fox, Florent, JMac, Blakey went down, for them not to put JPK down back and keep Mills in midfield though. It's madness, but I don't trust them.

Also the freshness/impact argument only works if the sub is made when it suits this. E.g. the Hawks game. If it happens early, watch us put JPK down back, move Florent up the ground, and the gameday thread to go nuclear.

That's the risk you take with the sub though. If your ruckman goes down and your sub is a small, your entire structure is cooked