Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Ambrosia]

I'd put Hooker and Hurley in the "about right" basket. I shudder at the team we'd have been without them over the last couple of years. They're ridiculously important. Last big contract for both of course but they are massive, massive cogs.

They probably about right for this year but knowing they both are till 2020/2021 makes them overpays.

Obviously there is clear reasons as to why we had to overpay them but it doesn’t change the fact that they are overpaid.

 

[Ambrosia]

According to hearld sun

Hooker $650,000-$700,000 pre covid
Covid salary: $468,000-$504,000

Merrett $650,000-$700,000 pre covid
Covid salary: $468,000-$504,000

Hurley $700,000-$750,000 pre covid
Covid salary: $504,000-$540,000

Daniher $700,000-$750,000 pre covid
Covid salary: $504,000-$540,000

Heppell $700,000-$750,000 pre covid
Covid salary: 504,000-$540,000

Shiel $775,000-$825,000 pre covid
Covid salary: $558,000-$594,000

Anyone got a link to the full list?

 

[Yoda_]

We’ve probably got too many talls on the list and not enough genuine, proper midfielders but I suspect that will sort itself out in the next year or so because I don’t really see us needing a lot else. Would like us take the best available midfielder in the 1st round and add another one either through draft or trade later on. I Suspect all our picks in the middle rounds of the draft will get minced up for points so I don’t really think it’s worth speculating on those.

This is essentially what I've been banging on about for the best part of 12 months.

To many talls and frankly not enough of them are good enough to spread across the AFL best 22.

As harsh as it may seem but if a bloke like Stewart isn't offered a contract but McKernan was, it'd easy to see why. Sure, Stewart's best is much better but we simply haven't seen enough of it. Gown has shown promise but this (cancelled VFL season) has ruined any hope of he putting distance between himself and Harry Jones as KPF for the future.

 

[andleanback]

Yep,

And surely we sign him up he is our future skip

Mcgrath will be captain in 2 years. In his draft year one of the biggest wraps on him was his leadership. You don’t leave out a future captain of the leadership group.

 

[Ambrosia]

Big assumption. Think one of Phillips or T Bell will stay. Crauford is not a waste simply because he is 23. Nearly all of the best rucks have had until 24 or 25 to find their feet.

I just don't see how he would become a good AFL player if he isn't capable of competing at AFL level next season.

 

[Yoda_]

reports from scratch matches is he’s playing midfield. If he gets a senior game this year and shows a touch, can see him being given another year.

This is precisely the Essington way.

Most on here would offer him two more years in hope that he comes good. He is borderline VFL standard and a fair way off AFL standard. He plays midfield minutes in the VFL/scratch matches through neccesity (not enough midfielders on our list) rather than through positional development.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This is precisely the Essington way.

Most on here would offer him two more years in hope that he comes good. He is borderline VFL standard and a fair way off AFL standard. He plays midfield minutes in the VFL/scratch matches through neccesity (not enough midfielders on our list) rather than through positional development.

Fair enough. Always thought the plan was for him to play midfield.

 

[ant555]

I just don't see how he would become a good AFL player if he isn't capable of competing at AFL level next season.

They said the same thing about Stefan Martin when he was at Melbourne.

 

[Ambrosia]

They said the same thing about Stefan Martin when he was at Melbourne.

No they didn’t. Martin played as KPP at Melbourne and failed in that position.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

No they didn’t. Martin played as KPP at Melbourne and failed in that position.

When both Jamar and Gawn were injured he played ruck and did well. Big chunks of 2011 and 2012.

 

[ant555]

No they didn’t. Martin played as KPP at Melbourne and failed in that position.

Martin was always a ruck first.They tried to convert him into something he was not. He had two seasons when he was played forward / ruck regularly. He disappointed and was traded away eventually becoming a very good ruck from the second half of 2014 when he was 28. Going by the age theory he should have been washed up as he was 27 when he was traded and did not play a lot of games in his first year at Brisbane.

I am not saying Crauford is a lock to be anything. What I am saying is 23 is no reason to think he has to make it this year or next. There is no reason why you do not run with a rookie ruck for two seasons or even three. In fact at this stage we need to carry 2 seasoned rucks plus 2 or 3 rookies. What Draper does for the rest of this season will decide if it is Bellchambers and Phillips or a combination or one of the previous and Draper. Given Draper has played zero games and it is yet to be seen if his decent VFL form converts to AFL is suspect that if we let T Bell and Phillips go we would need to be looking at 2 experienced rusck to replace them.

Witts was 25 when traded to the GC. Had one decent season but was traded out because of Grundy's rise.

 

[BrunoV]

I just don't see how he would become a good AFL player if he isn't capable of competing at AFL level next season.

How will we know?

 

[Ambrosia]

Martin was always a ruck first.They tried to convert him into something he was not. He had two seasons when he was played forward / ruck regularly. He disappointed and was traded away eventually becoming a very good ruck from the second half of 2014 when he was 28. Going by the age theory he should have been washed up as he was 27 when he was traded and did not play a lot of games in his first year at Brisbane.

I am not saying Crauford is a lock to be anything. What I am saying is 23 is no reason to think he has to make it this year or next. There is no reason why you do not run with a rookie ruck for two seasons or even three. In fact at this stage we need to carry 2 seasoned rucks plus 2 or 3 rookies. What Draper does for the rest of this season will decide if it is Bellchambers and Phillips or a combination or one of the previous and Draper. Given Draper has played zero games and it is yet to be seen if his decent VFL form converts to AFL is suspect that if we let T Bell and Phillips go we would need to be looking at 2 experienced rusck to replace them.

Witts was 25 when traded to the GC. Had one decent season but was traded out because of Grundy's rise.

I’m not saying he has to be good at AFL level next season just be able to compete. Philips is hopeless and Bellchambers is cooked if he isn’t 90% of those players next season he’s never gonna make it. Witts and Martin had Both played over

Martin was always a ruck first.They tried to convert him into something he was not. He had two seasons when he was played forward / ruck regularly. He disappointed and was traded away eventually becoming a very good ruck from the second half of 2014 when he was 28. Going by the age theory he should have been washed up as he was 27 when he was traded and did not play a lot of games in his first year at Brisbane.

I am not saying Crauford is a lock to be anything. What I am saying is 23 is no reason to think he has to make it this year or next. There is no reason why you do not run with a rookie ruck for two seasons or even three. In fact at this stage we need to carry 2 seasoned rucks plus 2 or 3 rookies. What Draper does for the rest of this season will decide if it is Bellchambers and Phillips or a combination or one of the previous and Draper. Given Draper has played zero games and it is yet to be seen if his decent VFL form converts to AFL is suspect that if we let T Bell and Phillips go we would need to be looking at 2 experienced rusck to replace them.

Witts was 25 when traded to the GC. Had one decent season but was traded out because of Grundy's rise.

Do you really think 22 year old Witts and Martin weren’t capable of similar performances as Philips and a cooked Bellchambers?

 

[Ambrosia]

How will we know?

Surely training will be enough to tell. Bellchambers and Philips isn’t exactly a high bar.

 

[Zach Package]

This is essentially what I've been banging on about for the best part of 12 months.

To many talls and frankly not enough of them are good enough to spread across the AFL best 22.

As harsh as it may seem but if a bloke like Stewart isn't offered a contract but McKernan was, it'd easy to see why. Sure, Stewart's best is much better but we simply haven't seen enough of it. Gown has shown promise but this (cancelled VFL season) has ruined any hope of he putting distance between himself and Harry Jones as KPF for the future.

I don’t view it as a negative, I was just calling it out as something to keep in mind when forward planning.

Conventional wisdom is the talls take longer and I think it’s a really good idea to get a few in and pump development into them while they still have the established players to learn from. Going and getting Jones and Bryan and Crauford was a good thing given Bellchambers, Hooker and even McKernan are getting on.

It’s only an issue if we don’t shift focus this year and grab a couple of midfielders.

Also fully disagree regarding Begley by the way. The combination of huge running capacity, thick body shape and the ability to kick darts is not something you get every day. I always looked at him as someone who would eventually run through the middle, all the ACL did was delay it a year and put him behind the 8 ball.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Also fully disagree regarding Begley by the way. The combination of huge running capacity, thick body shape and the ability to kick darts is not something you get every day. I always looked at him as someone who would eventually run through the middle, all the ACL did was delay it a year and put him behind the 8 ball.

Pfft, Stanton had huge running capacity and he never kicked the darts.

 

[eth-dog]

Pfft, Stanton had huge running capacity and he never kicked the darts.

God I'd forgotten about that joke.

 

[ant555]

I’m not saying he has to be good at AFL level next season just be able to compete. Philips is hopeless and Bellchambers is cooked if he isn’t 90% of those players next season he’s never gonna make it. Witts and Martin had Both played over


Do you really think 22 year old Witts and Martin weren’t capable of similar performances as Philips and a cooked Bellchambers?

That is not the point. My point is at 23 and in their first season it is too early to be saying he needs to be doing something by next season.He may be able to compete. His age has nothing to do with it other than he does not need to put on and weight.
Also Witts and Martin may have done better stuff than T Bell and Phillips at 22 but both clubs had other experienced rucks who turned out better. Draper has not played a game so even if he clocks up say 5 games it is a very risky strategy to go into a season with a ruck division that would have played under 10 games between them.
My point is you would need to keep one of them or find another experienced ruck to take the lead until they get experience.

 

[BrunoV]

I don’t view it as a negative, I was just calling it out as something to keep in mind when forward planning.

Conventional wisdom is the talls take longer and I think it’s a really good idea to get a few in and pump development into them while they still have the established players to learn from. Going and getting Jones and Bryan and Crauford was a good thing given Bellchambers, Hooker and even McKernan are getting on.

It’s only an issue if we don’t shift focus this year and grab a couple of midfielders.

Also fully disagree regarding Begley by the way. The combination of huge running capacity, thick body shape and the ability to kick darts is not something you get every day. I always looked at him as someone who would eventually run through the middle, all the ACL did was delay it a year and put him behind the 8 ball.

Begley also has pretty clean hands. I would be very disappointed if we cut him without having a look at him as an inside mid playing AFL.

 

[BrunoV]

That is not the point. My point is at 23 and in their first season it is too early to be saying he needs to be doing something by next season.He may be able to compete. His age has nothing to do with it other than he does not need to put on and weight.
Also Witts and Martin may have done better stuff than T Bell and Phillips at 22 but both clubs had other experienced rucks who turned out better. Draper has not played a game so even if he clocks up say 5 games it is a very risky strategy to go into a season with a ruck division that would have played under 10 games between them.
My point is you would need to keep one of them or find another experienced ruck to take the lead until they get experience.

Ambrosia, I'll add that an issue with Crauford is literally whether his body can take the hits week in and week out. While he has played footy, it was SANFL reserves.

There is hardly any contact training at the moment so I'm not sure how much ruck craft is being meaningfully learned.

Lavender, who came from a much lower base as a cricketer, couldn't handle the contact and kept getting injured which is why he retired.

It's a massive and unnecessary risk to go in to a season with 2 almost completely untested ruckmen as the numbers 1 and 2.

 

[Lore]

How many of our players grew up following Essendon? Snelling's interview it sounds like we have quite a few, and they said it like it's unusual.

Snelling, Francis, Heppell, Laverde... who are the others?

 

[Ambrosia]

How many of our players grew up following Essendon? Snelling's interview it sounds like we have quite a few, and they said it like it's unusual.

Snelling, Francis, Heppell, Laverde... who are the others?

Harrison Jones

 

[eth-dog]

How many of our players grew up following Essendon? Snelling's interview it sounds like we have quite a few, and they said it like it's unusual.

Snelling, Francis, Heppell, Laverde... who are the others?

From memory Daniher (obviously), Merrett (at least from when we drafted Jackson), Francis, Zaharakis, Laverde, Mutch, Heppell, Mozzie, Jones, Stringer, Ambrose, Snelling, Walla, Hird (see Daniher)

Not 100% on Stringer or Merrett (pre-Jackson) though.

 

[Milanista28]

Townsend said he did as well I think

 

[CBombers17]

In terms of list management I am not convinced Cahill is going to bring anything that Mosi can't and also Johnson when he gets going (apparently he's not quick either but he is going to at least be versatile and will surely have tricks). Then there's the Davey twins to arrive at some stage in the next couple of years.

We would also hope to reach a point soon when our best midfield doesn't fit Snelling and Smith there's 2 more who can play small forward and already do. The list has too much small forward coverage/ insurance to warrant this selection IMO.

Edit: I had a look at who else was taken around that spot. One player stood out as being something we actually need. Cameron Taheny.(pick 50) quick medium sized forward, decent size, nice skills and can take a grab. The kind of medium forward who can find space on a lead then hit up a target. We don't really have this type in the forward line right now. He's basically what McKenna could be but a better mark, or our current reality Zaka - As well as an upgrade on Zaka desperately needed, these are two players we may actually need to replace soon.

For those that know these things, were there any 200cm defenders or Chol type development players (or inside mids) we could have looked at with this pick / list spot ? Types of players we don't have.and actually need?