Tasmania

[chesson]

How about merge North Melbourne and Bulldogs? make two small clubs starved for succes and in financial issues, into one strong big club who doesnt get embarrassingly small crowds.

I think that would be the best idea rather than killing off one of them.

Why not merge the magpies and carlton, only have the top 12 money earners with the biggest fan base and build a 150k stadium?

 

[flaps]

How about merge North Melbourne and Bulldogs? make two small clubs starved for succes and in financial issues, into one strong big club who doesnt get embarrassingly small crowds.

I think that would be the best idea rather than killing off one of them.

Would work. All you have to do is cull the red from their colours and you have the blue and white Tassie Kangadogs.

 

[MaddAdam]

Where the AFL couldn't seem to care, untill they realised the fruit of hawthorns labour, and now are pushing to send pissant AFL teams

I know the feeling. Hate seeing pissant teams like Collingwood and Hawthorn getting Friday nights.

 

[Bigeasy]

How about merge North Melbourne and Bulldogs? make two small clubs starved for succes and in financial issues, into one strong big club who doesnt get embarrassingly small crowds.

I think that would be the best idea rather than killing off one of them.

How about you refrain from given advice to my club that effectively ends their existence. The sheer arrogance of some supporters is outstanding.

 

[madmug]

How about you refrain from given advice to my club that effectively ends their existence. The sheer arrogance of some supporters is outstanding.

Yes, no club should be legislated out of existence. The VFL is where any excess Victorian clubs should go. Transfering clubs interstate is just plain wrong. They have a place & a history that should be respected. Just like sending two clubs to Tassie for the money is also just plain wrong.
This is precisely why people in NSW & Qld believe the AFL is just a pumped up Victorian competition. Because that is what it is.

 

[Tas]

Lets be realistic, if the AFL hadn't mismanaged Victorian football then Hawthorn, St Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne, Carlton, Richmond and North wouldn't have gone looking to sell games of footy because the AFL left the clubs with uncompetitive stadiums to have to deal with combined with no bargaining rights.

Our initial move to Canberra was less about the money and more about exposure, we went to play there because we had a guarantee from the AFL that those games would be on FTA, the same reason we got into Friday night football, we were losing money for years playing that timeslot until the end when it was taken and Canberra was just an alternative offered by the AFL for taking Friday night away.

It has evolved from that, clubs can't make any money at debt ridden stadiums, MCC uses the AFL to subsidise cricket, do you believe Cricket Victoria writes any cheques to the MCC for getting 500 people to watch a 5 day test game yet an AFL club has to write them a cheque when 25,000 people attend to watch a game for the use of the stadium for a couple of hours.

AFL should fix the environment in Victoria then you will see clubs who play outside of Melbourne do so because they want to rather than because the AFL has created a toxic environment next to nobody can survive in.

 

[Beesto]

Our initial move to Canberra was less about the money and more about exposure, we went to play there because we had a guarantee from the AFL that those games would be on FTA, the same reason we got into Friday night football, we were losing money for years playing that timeslot until the end when it was taken and Canberra was just an alternative offered by the AFL for taking Friday night away.

Have to agree that you have been shafted time and again by the AFL.

However, can't agree with the less about money and more about exposure.

North have been their own worst enemy over the last decade. Canberra, Sydney, gold coast and now Hobart and Ballarat.

when the Hawks went to Tassie they worked on it and committed to it. Result $15m over 5 years. No one really believes that North are in Hobart for any reason other than the money. And that Brayshaw's word on commitment is hard to be believed.

 

[blaze036]

How about you refrain from given advice to my club that effectively ends their existence. The sheer arrogance of some supporters is outstanding.

I never gave advice to your club, i have never spoken to ur club. It was just an idea, a hypothetical on the best way to reduce the current amount of teams to 17 to fit in an 18th one (eg tasmania ect).

How on earth does it end its existance? its a MERGE not a take over, or a culling. Will give north a much better chance of success in these times of off field arms races.

Its also rather embarrassing to have games where they need to close the top level of etihad because they know a victorian team is gonna struggle to pull 20k. Many people believe there are too many victorian clubs, and merging the two smallest ones would make sense if the majority of supporters got behind it once the dust settled. The new team would still only get 40k members and good crowds.

 

[vonLampertheim]

Then the second thing you need to do is to get on your computer and read about the Green Bay Packers. A football team in the American NFL.
Green Bay is a city of 104,000 people and a wider community of 300,000 people. They are the current superbowl champions and have one more NFL championships than any other team.

Los Angles has a population of 12,000,000 , 100 times larger than Green Bay and no team.

The Packers are owned by the town of Green Bay and supported with a passion. it is a truely Great story.

Under your ideas the most successful NFL team should not exist.

After reading through all 18 pages of this thread last night, your post was a much needed voice of sanity and reason in a discussion that has degenerated into people yelling the same talking points past one another.

One small point about Green Bay: Green Bay also draws heavily on its relationship with Milwaukee, population ~600,000 with a regional population of 1.75MM. Milwaukee citizens are able to buy tickets to Lambeau for two regular season games a year under old agreements that consolidated all games in Green Bay (and eliminating the games at County Stadium in Milwaukee):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambeau_Field#Packers_seek_a_modern_facility


Although clearly Milwaukee is larger than either alternate Tasmanian city, your point about a small, passionate, vociferous fanbase being able to support a professional franchise is well taken. It can happen, and Green Bay is a good model. I'd go as far as saying the Tasmanian team should issue shares so the public can own a piece of the team like the Packers.

Small market teams can and do thrive, and your Green Bay example is a good template to follow.

 

[Beesto]

Thanks for that. I am very aware of the milwakee connection and the shared history.

It still dose not dilute the argument. They have 90,000 members and another 90,000 on wait lists. The majority are from green bay.

If you ever get to go there you will see the town lives for the one team.

The thing that no one has brought into this argument is that they all talk of the afl in isolation. No sponsor thinks of the afl in isolation. In Melbourne you have 9 afl teams,1 nrl, 1 super 14, 1 nbl, 2 a league as well as netball etc over 15 teams in national competitions. Sponsors will not just use the afl they will go with the best fit for them.

There is no teams in Tasmania playing in a national competition. The afl could have it all to themselves.

They seriously missed the boat in Canberra. The city used to be evenly split now it is a league and union town.

They are in danger of letting someone into their own back yard because of neglect.

 

[flaps]

Thanks for that. I am very aware of the milwakee connection and the shared history.

It still dose not dilute the argument. They have 90,000 members and another 90,000 on wait lists. The majority are from green bay.

If you ever get to go there you will see the town lives for the one team.

The thing that no one has brought into this argument is that they all talk of the afl in isolation. No sponsor thinks of the afl in isolation. In Melbourne you have 9 afl teams,1 nrl, 1 super 14, 1 nbl, 2 a league as well as netball etc over 15 teams in national competitions. Sponsors will not just use the afl they will go with the best fit for them.

There is no teams in Tasmania playing in a national competition. The afl could have it all to themselves.

They seriously missed the boat in Canberra. The city used to be evenly split now it is a league and union town.

They are in danger of letting someone into their own back yard because of neglect.

Tassie is so backwards that it won't change. Rugby is not the danger sport, it's more to do with society and migration. Footy in Tassie will be here forever and it's the state's fault that it's so passionate about it that it didn't get a team and that's the unjust problem. Why should that be the case?

As for the "There is no teams in Tasmania playing in a national competition", well that's as far from the truth as you can get. Whilst there are no AFL, Rugby, or Soccer clubs in national competitions, there is still cricket, hockey, etc in Australia's major sporting leagues.

 

[Beesto]

Footy in Tassie will be here forever and it's the state's fault that it's so passionate about it that it didn't get a team and that's the unjust problem. Why should that be the case?

As for the "There is no teams in Tasmania playing in a national competition", well that's as far from the truth as you can get. Whilst there are no AFL, Rugby, or Soccer clubs in national competitions, there is still cricket, hockey, etc in Australia's major sporting leagues.

Passion should be the reason you have a team. I can't think of any other reason why there are still 10 teams in Victoria if not for the afl being scared of the passionate supporters.

I will give you the cricket team even thought they are a summer sport. The hockey no so much. I went to an AHL match in Sydney a few year back and there was about two or three hundred at the game.

 

[flaps]

Passion should be the reason you have a team. I can't think of any other reason why there are still 10 teams in Victoria if not for the afl being scared of the passionate supporters.

I will give you the cricket team even thought they are a summer sport. The hockey no so much. I went to an AHL match in Sydney a few year back and there was about two or three hundred at the game.

I agree with all of that. My point was that the AFL are so arrogant that they know the Tassie market is controlled by Aussie rules that they're not going to rush in to a tapped area already when the population for GWS supports the untried team. Basically, GWS = $$$. And that's all the AFL care about now.

 

[Super sub]

I agree with all of that. My point was that the AFL are so arrogant that they know the Tassie market is controlled by Aussie rules that they're not going to rush in to a tapped area already when the population for GWS supports the untried team. Basically, GWS = $$$. And that's all the AFL care about now.

Unfortunately tassie $$$ = propping up Melbourne teams

 

[blaze036]

Unfortunately tassie $$$ = propping up Melbourne teams

Tassy $$$ is always gonna be in the negatives.. where as GC and GWS have a much much bigger chance to grow, plus get more sponsership money and crowds atm are only a bit smaller than what tassy would be (based on GC's first season) which a HUGE room for improvement when compared to Tassy.

Yes u can compare that to North melbourne and stuff who are in the negatives, but there already in the comp, and it makes little sense to bring in a team whos gonna weaken the AFL financially.

The AFL is a business, and has to make financially sound decisions to stay strong/alive.

A tassy team would mean, weaken existing AFL clubs, marginal increase in ratings, another team with poor crowds, financial bailouts from the AFL year after year.

On the plus side an AFL loving state gets their own team, and theres more truth when we say its our "national game" (despite no NT team). Now unless ur heavily Biased you can see which makes more sense for the game.

 

[Super sub]

Could not agree more.

But Tasmania should still get a team.

All that you have said is right, but that dose not make it right.

AD hasn't got the balls to do what he should.

 

[The_Reaper]

Tassy $$$ is always gonna be in the negatives.. where as GC and GWS have a much much bigger chance to grow, plus get more sponsership money and crowds atm are only a bit smaller than what tassy would be (based on GC's first season) which a HUGE room for improvement when compared to Tassy.

Yes u can compare North melbourne re that to and stuff who are in the negatives, but there already in the comp, and it makes little sense to bring in a team whos gonna weaken the AFL financially.

The AFL is a business, and has to make financially sound decisions to stay strong/alive.

A tassy team would mean, weaken existing AFL clubs, marginal increase in ratings, another team with poor crowds, financial bailouts from the AFL year after year.

On the plus side an AFL loving state gets their own team, and theres more truth when we say its our "national game" (despite no NT team). Now unless ur heavily Biased you can see which makes more sense for the game.

So these teams should be removed from the AFL and moved to the VFL. Victoria has 10 clubs, if we removed a few it would still have 8.

8 clubs could easily cover the population.

 

[Messenger]

The same point applies, Tassy would get smaller crowds than North so it feels folish not to try and grab some victorian supporters as Tasmania's population is going backwards relative to everywhere else in australia, which relates back to the whole point of the argument. Financially Tasmania doesnt work, but nearly every AFL fan would want a tassy team (or at least be neutrel to it).

As i've stated earlier, the most likely chance for Tassy to ever get a team is open the immigration gates and start pooring new australians in, need a stronger economy and bigger population. I dont know if this is possible in Tasmania (is there the space? infastructure?) but it seems the only hope of Tassy getting a team. No victorian team is gonna relocate down there for financial reasons, as it will put them in an even worse position long term.

You should have a look at how much Hawthorn gets from the deal at Aurora. Forget the direct payment from the government; have a look at the "clean stadium" arrangement.

 

[Rooface]

Unfortunately tassie $$$ = propping up Melbourne teams

True that.

 

[blaze036]

You should have a look at how much Hawthorn gets from the deal at Aurora. Forget the direct payment from the government; have a look at the "clean stadium" arrangement.

Can u tell us how much it is?

 

[The_Reaper]

Can u tell us how much it is?

Hawthorn get $700,000 from stadium naming rights at York Park

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/aurora_extend_stadium_naming_rights_deal_with_hawthorn/

One would imagine that a Tasmanian team, with more games at the stadium would get more money for naming rights.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/11/16/186341_tasmania-news.html

Hawthorn get over a million from the gate for their four games a year at York Park.

 

[sherrinorburley]

Wow, no wonder the Kangaroos want to (as the hawks do) pillage.
With so much money down there and a great stadium deal they can afford 2 teams.

Pity our stadium deal is crap or we would be in no need to interfere so much with Tasmania.

 

[madmug]

Wow, no wonder the Kangaroos want to (as the hawks do) pillage.
With so much money down there and a great stadium deal they can afford 2 teams.

Pity our stadium deal is crap or we would be in no need to interfere so much with Tasmania.

Given all that I have read & written on BF I have always believed that Tassie has been poorly treated by the very Arrogant VFL/AFL. Many BF people keep chanting that Tassie couldnt possibly support a team. Given how much we have & do put into Australian rules football I know we could support a passionate & successful team. Many of us have had a fair idea just what Hawthorn & others pull out of this state. & now we have another starving rat that has come to suck on the local financial teat.
Both Hawthorn & North Melbourne will do NOTHING for local football of any lasting consequence. Its all take take take.
Its a bloody disgrace & you all know it.

 

[blaze036]

Given all that I have read & written on BF I have always believed that Tassie has been poorly treated by the very Arrogant VFL/AFL. Many BF people keep chanting that Tassie couldnt possibly support a team. Given how much we have & do put into Australian rules football I know we could support a passionate & successful team. Many of us have had a fair idea just what Hawthorn & others pull out of this state. & now we have another starving rat that has come to suck on the local financial teat.
Both Hawthorn & North Melbourne will do NOTHING for local football of any lasting consequence. Its all take take take.
Its a bloody disgrace & you all know it.

Um how about the GIVING of football to Tasmania, if tassy didnt want it then it wouldnt be happening. It use to be Tassy wants afl football, now when its there its a bloody disgrace somehow...

You KNOW tasmania could support a successful team? where are the major corporations in Tasmania, how are you going to get a few huge sponsership deals, let alone bring in decent crowds. The gap will only widen in the future as Tasmania is seriouslly lagging behind other states in all economic indicators and its appears certain to stay that way. Financially there is no way they could keep up unless the AFL continually gave them handouts which is obviously not want they want to do. GWS and GC in the long term will likely be way bigger than a Tasmanian team and be able to bring in much better revenue.

Funny how Tasmania's continually turn this into an attack on Victorians, when all victorians want a Tasmanian team, however most are realistic and see its not financially viable currently.

Edit* The Mars sponsership looked largely a stunt to gain attention and increase their sales in Tasmania, as they didnt announce their potential sponsership until after it was clear Tasmania wouldnt get a team, when they had months before to put their hand up and increase the chance of Tassy getting a team. Publicity and love from Tasmanians for no cost = win

 

[The_Reaper]

Um how about the GIVING of football to Tasmania, if tassy didnt want it then it wouldnt be happening. It use to be Tassy wants afl football, now when its there its a bloody disgrace somehow...

It is a disgrace, it's like having half a birthday cake instead of a full wedding cake.

You KNOW tasmania could support a successful team? where are the major corporations in Tasmania, how are you going to get a few huge sponsership deals, let alone bring in decent crowds. The gap will only widen in the future as Tasmania is seriouslly lagging behind other states in all economic indicators and its appears certain to stay that way.

Collingwood are sponsored by Emirates. Emirates is not an Australian company, let alone a Victorian one. WCE were sponsored by Hungry Jacks etc. The crowds are meaningless because Tasmania would have a very good stadium deal. Besides Victorian crowds are inflated by opposition fans.

Financially there is no way they could keep up unless the AFL continually gave them handouts which is obviously not want they want to do. GWS and GC in the long term will likely be way bigger than a Tasmanian team and be able to bring in much better revenue.

Given the stadium deal they would have plus stadium name rights, plus one would assume Tasmanian government funding their just as likely as GWS to be profitable in the future. Hell of a lot more likely than North or Footscray.

[quotes]
Funny how Tasmania's continually turn this into an attack on Victorians, when all victorians want a Tasmanian team, however most are realistic and see its not financially viable currently.[/quote]
Victorians generally don't care or at best are apathetic to football outside Victoria.