Terry just can't help himself

[Stratton24]

Wallace was quoted in 2004 saying Ricmond had the more promising list.

Fact: Wallace has topped up every year.
Fact: Clarkson has preferred the draft and taken a risk on young players and rookies.
Fact: Hawthorn won the 2008 Premiership, Wallace has not played finals and has a wooden spoon to his name.

 

[Kerrby04]

Wallace was quoted in 2004 saying Ricmond had the more promising list.

Fact: Wallace has topped up every year.
Fact: Clarkson has preferred the draft and taken a risk on young players and rookies.
Fact: Hawthorn won the 2008 Premiership, Wallace has not played finals and has a wooden spoon to his name.

calm down.

from an outsiders pov, id say hawthorn had more higher draft picks then richmond - meaning a better overall list. dont talk as if your club is higher then everyone else, but the pure fact is that hawthorn had bottomed out over a few years with prioritys in the first pick (or whomever finish whereever) instead of the present rule of priority after the first round. higher picks have higher chance of generating gun players.

i know, i know, i know, this isnt relevant to the OP. but to claim taking a risk on young players that are above 55+ may benefit greater then a recycled player is just naive. all comes down to luck when your a young player; injury free and the oportunity to show off your goods. besides, who has hawthorn picked up that are above 55+ and continued to be a regular?

to TheFridge, by god i hate port adelaide but i like the way you observe things.

 

[TheFridge]

to TheFridge, by god i hate port adelaide but i like the way you observe things.

I'd like to take that as a compliment, Kerrby, but I'm afraid it is an oxymoron.

BTW, I don't hate the West Coast Eagles.

 

[Kerrby04]

I'd like to take that as a compliment, Kerrby, but I'm afraid it is an oxymoron.

BTW, I don't hate the West Coast Eagles.

LOL thats bc Ports our bogey team!

besides if it makes u feel any better, i hate freo more

 

[Masten2McKinley]

Every year at Richmond Wallace has recycled one or more players.
When will he learn? Not many delisted players go on to star at another club and why oh why would you pass and save a pick for the PSD? Going to put more junk in the trunk?
With the Gold Coast coming into the draft why wouldn't they take a couple of bottom aged 17 year old who could go much higher next year?
Some things never change.

Hislop is barley a recycled player, he got delisted for off field issues nothing to do with his talent. i think Richmond did a good thing in picxking him up. not to sure about passing, but they have 5 picks in a pretty strong Rookie draft imo.

 

[cs61]

I hate this "premieship player" tag as if it actually means something.
There are alot of very ordinary footballers with premieship medals because they were lucky enough to fill a hole in a good side.
Look at West Coast last year, they were still running around with 15 or so "premiership players" in the side but without Judd and Cousins (and Kerr spending half the season out) they finished second bottom. Great players make average footballers look good.

I actually agree with your point, but you took my comments out of context.

I don't think any of those players we picked up are more than handy B/C grade players. I'm just pointing out that we managed to get three members of our premiership team from other clubs for low cost, and they all played an important role.

I don't think any of Gilham, Guerra or Dew are stars, but all played a vital role on grand final day, and therefore making their recruitment very successful for us. We couldn't have won it without those three, that's for sure.

 

[rocklovelive]

Firstly, to The Fridge - beautiful post. Love your work. One of the most rational and thought out posters on this forum.

Secondly - to this pathetic Hawthorn troll ...

Have a look at the age groupings throughout our team list.
Between the age of 26 and 30 we currently have zero players. None at all.
That is a key age group, it's when players come into their prime and provide leadership and guidance for the younger players.
We have Spud Frawley to thank for this.
Wallace has coached and traded beautifully throughout his time. Both Troy Simmonds and Graham Polak were brought into the club for minimal cost and have excelled.
Hislop is 20 years old, and Thomson is 22 years old. You're acting like we've brought in 30 year olds.

 

[TigerGlory]

Wallace was quoted in 2004 saying Ricmond had the more promising list.

Despite what Wallace said, our list was miles behind yours in terms of quality and even you know that.

Fact: Wallace has topped up every year.

That might have something to do with the gaping holes in our list. We still lack medium-experienced players. ALL of the top-ups that Wallace recruited was for list experience only. Furthermore, players like Kingsley, Graham, Knobel etc cost us absolutely zero, because they were either taken in the PSD or with Pick 70-odd in the ND.

Fact: Clarkson has preferred the draft and taken a risk on young players and rookies.

Thats because you tanked for three years, and had higher picks, while we have tried to win every single game we played since Wallace took over.

Fact: Hawthorn won the 2008 Premiership, Wallace has not played finals and has a wooden spoon to his name.

Im so glad you were here to point that out, otherwise I would never have known.

Wallace has had to rebuild Richmond from the bottom up. Hawthorn had the groundwork already laid, with Hodge, Mitchell, Bateman etc all on your list at the time, and are now medium-experienced players in your side. The ONLY medium-experienced players we now have from the Frawley eras are Chris Newman and Shane Tuck. The latter, having only performed since Wallace took over.

 

[Stratton24]

Firstly, to The Fridge - beautiful post. Love your work. One of the most rational and thought out posters on this forum.

Secondly - to this pathetic Hawthorn troll ...

Have a look at the age groupings throughout our team list.
Between the age of 26 and 30 we currently have zero players. None at all.
That is a key age group, it's when players come into their prime and provide leadership and guidance for the younger players.
We have Spud Frawley to thank for this.
Wallace has coached and traded beautifully throughout his time. Both Troy Simmonds and Graham Polak were brought into the club for minimal cost and have excelled.
Hislop is 20 years old, and Thomson is 22 years old. You're acting like we've brought in 30 year olds.

Key age group 26 to 30?

The Hawks 2008 Premiership team had just 2 in that age group.

Wallace has coached and traded beautifully and Polak has excelled?
Biggest lol ever!

 

[Richo Is Good]

In 2004 Richmond were 16th and Hawthorn were 15th

.

Wallace has added a wooden spoon and has not made the finals.
Clarkson has improved the ladder position each year and Hawthorn are now the Premiers.

Indeed true but the two clubs were in totaly different circumstances. Since the 2004 draft Richmonds average age of players has at times been 2 years younger than the 2nd youngest team.

I remember an article from Wallace talking about the comparisons claiming that Hawthorn and Freo's core group of players ave 25 or 26yo, however Richmonds only now sits at 23.

Tell me, when our core group reaches the prime 25/26yo with our quality up and comers do you think the tigers will be contenders????

 

[Consumed]

.......

Tell me, when our core group reaches the prime 25/26yo with our quality up and comers do you think the tigers will be contenders????

Yes. I think Richmond's defense will soon rival the league's best. The tigers have just as strong a midfield as Carlton, bar Judd. If Cogs can recapture form from previous years it will certainly help. Deledio, Foley & Cotchin will add class & grunt. As a big fan of Richo I do wonder who will take over from him up forward. By that I mean I don't really see a Richmond forward with the same amount of class as him currently.

Wallace playing Richo further up the ground this year was good for a few reasons, 1- it allowed younger forwards to develop without being overly hindered by the midfield always looking for Richo.
2 - it allowed Richo to star on the wing. And that was good for football.

We all saw the Tigers not only match it with the Hawks this year, but win the match quite handily. If they can do that in a rebuilding/growth year, I'm sure they will improve upon that in 2009. Like all contenders they need to turn in more of these performances, it's all about consistency.

I think the Tigers are closer to where they want to be than Carlton. This is probably against conventional wisdom, but I would put money on the tigers over the blues for a higher ladder position in 2009.

 

[Stratton24]

.


Indeed true but the two clubs were in totaly different circumstances. Since the 2004 draft Richmonds average age of players has at times been 2 years younger than the 2nd youngest team.

I remember an article from Wallace talking about the comparisons claiming that Hawthorn and Freo's core group of players ave 25 or 26yo, however Richmonds only now sits at 23.

Tell me, when our core group reaches the prime 25/26yo with our quality up and comers do you think the tigers will be contenders????

Ummm? Hawthorn had the 3rd youngest list in 2008 behind West Coast and Carlton and for most rounds in 2008 when Crawf did not play Hawthorn actually fielded the youngest 22.

 

[TimeFor11]

Hawks are looking the team to throw Danny Meyer a lifeline. So there you go when that happens Hawker 44 Hawthorn would have recruited a 22yo which seemingly is a sin according to your OP.

Either way Hislop wasnt dropped for his footballing ability but for his ildiscipline. He is 20 and has showed good signs in his 7 games as a tough player.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I suggest you do some homework.Since Wallace has taken over we have turned over 34 players.
Of those who have replaced the 34 the only "recycled" that did cost a bit was Mcmahon[pick 19].Notwithstanding personal opinions on Mcmahon he still can give the club close to 10yrs service.
Do you really want to continue down the Wallace bashing path?

Still no comment on the above Hawker?
What a surprise.

 

[Stratton24]

Still no comment on the above Hawker?
What a surprise.

Richmond have shown with Thursfield and Foley that taking a risk on rookies can pay off.
Hawthorn have used the rookie list and late picks much better than Richmond and the result is a Premiership. If Richmond had taken more young players and rookies rather than old hacks they would be in a much better position.

 

[Cindy2003]

I think the tigers recruiting has improved over the past couple of years. Their overall lists looks a lot better than it was three or four years ago. It will be interesting to see whether they will be better than Carlton IMO they have more talent but Judd and Fev may be the difference. Richmond lack bigger bodies and players lack a bit of mongrel. So my question is why take only three picks in the last open draft incl one recycle. A chance to build the list perhaps thrown away.

Terry needs a good year to get another gig.

Still feel Hawthorn and Geelong are a long way ahead of the rest of the comp. (Yes I know the tiges beat us last start only dark spot for the year). Dont see the gap getting any smaller next year.

 

[Richo Is Good]

Ummm? Hawthorn had the 3rd youngest list in 2008 behind West Coast and Carlton and for most rounds in 2008 when Crawf did not play Hawthorn actually fielded the youngest 22.

Point taken, though I was talking general since the 2004 draft stating the platform that the Hawks had to build on compared to the Tigers with their 'core' group of players

Richmond and Hawthorn list as of now both average the lower half of 23yo, although I still believe your 'core' group of players would be more experienced than ours. (Deledio, Foley, Tambling, Tuck etc - Bateman, Mitchell, Brown, Sewell, Hodge, Buddy) Shows a bit more depth too by the looks of things!

 

[DaVe86]

I think the tigers recruiting has improved over the past couple of years. Their overall lists looks a lot better than it was three or four years ago. It will be interesting to see whether they will be better than Carlton IMO they have more talent but Judd and Fev may be the difference. Richmond lack bigger bodies and players lack a bit of mongrel.

Terry needs a good year to get another gig.

Still feel Hawthorn and Geelong are a long way ahead of the rest of the comp. (Yes I know the tiges beat us last start only dark spot for the year). Dont see the gap getting any smaller next year.

Richmond's recruiting has improved but they've taken an awful long time to get themselves in a position to have a tilt...And they are probably still a year off.


I think getting Thomson was a decent move...they needed the big body in and under to complement the speed of the other guys. They also had to get a ruckman this year.

 

[Richo Is Good]

Richmond have shown with Thursfield and Foley that taking a risk on rookies can pay off.
Hawthorn have used the rookie list and late picks much better than Richmond and the result is a Premiership. If Richmond had taken more young players and rookies rather than old hacks they would be in a much better position.

Isnt Richmond in a position to take 5 rookies this year? Prob the reason we took a couple of early 20yo players that will definately play on our list.

I dont think Hawthorns rookie list managment is any different to the Tigers, I may be wrong but cant all clubs take the same amount of rookies as it isnt part of the actual list?

 

[TheFridge]

Hawthorn have used the rookie list and late picks much better than Richmond and the result is a Premiership.

They have? Seriously Hawker44, you are like a dog with a bone... I am interested nonetheless in the whole recycled vs "pick a kid" debate. Personally, I reckon it is an even money bet and think we tend to discard solid players too quickly from the game. For mine, list age balance is important as is having ready to use back up or depth players on a list.

Anyway, back to the contention you made above that Hawthorn's better use of late picks has led to them getting into premiership contwention ahead of the Tigers...

I'll give you Clint Young (IIRC he was a rookie?) as a beauty of a kid taken late in the Clarkson era who was a major contributor to the flag, and I'll even throw in Simon Taylor as a lateish pick who was a key contributor. Unless I am missing someone (and I might be), the other later picks used that contributed to the flag were Guerra, Gilham and Dew who were all evil recycled players...

In the same 2004 onwards period, Richmond have also had some promising pick ups late in the draft cycle, such as Foley, Thursfield and even guys like King and Howat.

Both clubs have unsurprisingly, also had a bunch of guys given a shot with late picks who were unable to take the next step.

I would suggest that Hawthorn's volume and better use of early picks have been the main contributor to their relative success in comparison to Richmond. The way I see it is that the key players in the Hawks 08 team were guys like Hodge, Franklin, Roughhead, Croad, Lewis and Mitchell - none of whom were late picks in the 2004 onwards era.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Richmond have shown with Thursfield and Foley that taking a risk on rookies can pay off.
Hawthorn have used the rookie list and late picks much better than Richmond and the result is a Premiership. If Richmond had taken more young players and rookies rather than old hacks they would be in a much better position.

So out of the 34 turned over 8 are/were "recycles"-Graham,Kingsley,Polak,Mcmahon,P.Bowden,Simmonds,Morton,Hislop and Thomson.
Geez your right. 26 kids in the 4 drafts Terry has been involved in and even in the the above list of "recycle,s" 3 are not even over 22 yet and you still think We havnt used the Draft properly

 

[Stratton24]

My point is that every year Wallace has taken recycled players and with this the last draft before the Gold Coast and with the perceived strength and depth of the draft it will be interesting to see how it turns out taking unwanted players from other clubs and only taking 2 new players in the National Draft.

Only time will tell. Fun discussing it though.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

My point is that every year Wallace has taken recycled players and with this the last draft before the Gold Coast and with the perceived strength and depth of the draft it will be interesting to see how it turns out taking unwanted players from other clubs and only taking 2 new players in the National Draft.

Only time will tell. Fun discussing it though.

Pretty sure we still have the PSD and Rookie drafts to come

 

[TheFridge]

My point is that every year Wallace has taken recycled players and with this the last draft before the Gold Coast and with the perceived strength and depth of the draft it will be interesting to see how it turns out taking unwanted players from other clubs and only taking 2 new players in the National Draft.

Only time will tell. Fun discussing it though.

Time will tell. Certainly neither Hislop or Thomson are guarantees to "make it" at all. Therein, you could definitely say the same with any kid taken with picks 42 and above.

However, it is worth noting that neither were truly "unwanted" and I believe both were offered the opportunity to continue at their former clubs. Thomson was, rightly or wrongly, fed up with not getting game time at Port and asked to be traded. IIRC Hislop wanted a longer deal than Essendon were prepared to offer him.