Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

[Subtemperate]

Things definitely would have been different.

.... People would be calling for Mick's head instead of Bucks.

 

[ksardog]

I think as a supporter group there's elements that are still hanging onto this notion of how good we would have been under Mick nearly 4 years on.

Happy for this to be merged into another thread if mods see fit and going forward we always have a right to question the coach, but the sooner this whole debate about Malthouse vs Bucks ends the better.

My point is that people will have views on whether Buckley is the right man, but I think it doesn't do us as a club any favours to think he's stuffed Malthouse's team up when in reality it was probably on the way down anyway. If we're playing this way after end of 2016 and there's no improvement then he's likely to be gone as he's had 5 years.

No, i think u miss the point. If the club had of smoothed things over after 2010 premiership, let things stay the same without all the bullshit and unrest created by all and sundry and united under the one goal, to win premierships, we could of got at least another
premiership in the cabinet.

To say we got figured out is just plain bullshit, how on earth did buckley make a prelim in 2012 ( when clearly players wernt happy with changeovr )if the side was figured out. We hav all seen his coaching exploits since. The players were that well drilled they were basically running themselves. Buckley said it himself, he didnt change much in 2012. How lucky we are that he has changed it since.

So we made 2 grand finals followed by a prelim in which we had a funeral to attend 2 days before for jmac ( RIP ).

Hardly a side that was 'figured out'

This seems to be the ONLY thing that buckleys supporters can hang their hat on.

 

[popin]

Oh my god help us all. But if, but if, but if, but if, but if................

fY

 

[BeechyMagpie]

Im not a Buckley fan TBF, but despite that, I'm also very anti Malthouse and think he's a relatively over rated coach when you look at the sides and players on paper. Bit of chicken or the egg - is it players or the coach, but that isn't the point.

My take is - the 2010 generation had to end eventually, regardless of if it was Malthouse, Buckley or Jock Mchale. What Buckley has done is try to accelerate the rebuild, brought it forward a few years earlier than most of us would have liked, especially after a relatively successful period where our demands and expectations were quite rightly high.

I do think, as an above post mentioned, that the development of the Hawks and Swans may have played a part. In that we didn't think we had the cattle compete; and would only fall further behind as we hung onto aging stars and retirements form and injury eventually dwindled the list. Another aspect is the draft picks available as the expansion clubs entered the competition. Knowing that these 2 clubs basicslly have received 15-20 1st round picks in 3 years, I think Bucks was quite keen to accept transition and ensure we got our share of the 1st round pie.

In a sense, I think we don't actually understand that he's been quite selfless, in that he could have coached for himself and coached for the now, kept the ageing big names and recruited 'NOW' players to try and hunt a 'NOW' flag (think Ross Lyon.)

Instead he's gone the complete opposite, which with our recruiting track record, I'm sure will lead to us being competitive agin.

From there .. Can he actually coach? Not a lot in four years suggests he can. The game style and tactics seem old fashion and behind the times and I just fail to see any care or passion in our players let alone skill improvement. We will have an answer to this question by seasons end 2016 I think. Can't possibly get more than 5 years after going backwards each season I wouldn't have though.

 

[Snag Breac]

There's this song... It goes, "What's done is done, what's won is won; what's lost is lost and gone forever." I used to think it was an Irish rebel song, but it must have been about our storied succession plan.

 

[ksardog]

Oh my god help us all. But if, but if, but if, but if, but if................

fY

Whats your point?? Only shows how much he cared and how close he was to the players.

 

[popin]

Whats your point?? Only shows how much he cared and how close he was to the players.

But if, but if, but if, but if, but if................ But the game plan was ok etc etc but if lol, It's 2015.
Look's like people will but if for the rest of there life's about MM v's Bucks like a broken record.
Close thread as it's just more boring posts that should be in the bucks mega thread.
King Mick hey, do people need a tissue .

 

[Sea Bird]

From there .. Can he actually coach? Not a lot in four years suggests he can. The game style and tactics seem old fashion and behind the times and I just fail to see any care or passion in our players let alone skill improvement. We will have an answer to this question by seasons end 2016 I think. Can't possibly get more than 5 years after going backwards each season I wouldn't have though.

I wonder what the average results are for the incumbent coach, when their predecessor was a premiership winner - like what is the average number of wins / losses, how long were they in the role, how were they viewed as coaches, etc

** with work tomorrow it's a bit late now for me to try and profile it (soft I know ), i think the comparison would be interesting / insightful

 

[ksardog]

Bucks on gameday

But if, but if, but if, but if, but if................ But the game plan was ok etc etc but if lol, It's 2015.
Look's like people will but if for the rest of there life's about MM v's Bucks like a broken record.
Close thread as it's just more boring posts that should be in the bucks mega thread.
King Mick hey, do people need a tissue .[/

Bucks in the coaches box

 

[Black Prince]

Results are reality at the end of the day. It's clear the Buckley ,Mick and Ed situation cost us a grand final. That said if it didn't exist who knows what could of been but I have no doubt our core group of players would of remained , further developed and played exceptional football longer . To say we were on the slide ,the game had changed and the players that have left are past it is just fanciful .Sure they had deficiencies but under Mick we had a formidable young team who covered each other, had a great will to win and bury sides . Under Mick we were innovative , adaptable and attracting stars from other clubs . How times have changed .

 

[nahnah]

It's most likely going to take a very long time to fix this team, which is sad because a player like Pendlbury deserves to be in a good team. But reality is we've got a lot of 23-28 year olds who are pretty much useless. On top of this we are not even sure if we have the right man to fix all this and really get this rebuild going. It's going to be a very hard two years watching these list cloggers take games from our youth, but that is the postion we find ourselves in.

We could end up with a pick between 2-6 and that would be great if we could use it well and bring in some more skilled players.. Hit this years draft hard, hit next years draft hard and hopefully when we are ready to come up the Suns and GWS are on the way down.

There will be 10-15 more press conferences where bucks says 'no excuses' or 'we expect better' after bad losses.. Brave yourself people, it'll get worse before it gets better. The doggies (and I rated their list long before they molested us on Saturday) bit the bullet, put themselves in a position to gain access to great young talent and look at where they are now. (Even a coaching change but let's not go there )

We don't wanna end up like carlton, the quicker we fall the quicker we rise. Right now is kinda similar to 2004, bleak. 2005 you saw where we were heading. 04 was just bleak. 2015 is bleak. We have some really good young players on our list but it's not enough, we need to draft another back that can kick on top of shaz and Maynard. We need another classy user on the wing opposite broomhead. We need a crumbing small forward that we've probably needed forever. We probably need another young talented KPP to compliment Moore.

De Goey
broomhead
elliott
Kennedy
Grundy
Freeman
Witts
Williams
Maynard
Shaz
Moore
Adams

Hopefully Fasolo and Karnezis but they've taking a long time to show consistency and maybe Crisp.
^^ decent young core to add players to in the next 2 drafts whilst we remove the deadwood.
Players like Pendles, Gwood, brown are the senior players that are most likely to be the veterans of our rise back to the promise land, Reid IF and a huge if at that can stay healthy. The rest of the older players won't make it, your Sinclair's, goldsacks, varcoe's, white's will need to be upgraded.

Hopefully we can sneak a Trelaor or Dangerfield, but I wouldn't count on it happening.

(I've probably left off a talented youngster)

(It's 1:10am and I'm very tired so I apologise if this was written poorly)

 

[Mr Bombastic]

It's most likely going to take a very long time to fix this team, which is sad because a player like Pendlbury deserves to be in a good team. But reality is we've got a lot of 23-28 year olds who are pretty much useless. On top of this we are not even sure if we have the right man to fix all this and really get this rebuild going. It's going to be a very hard two years watching these list cloggers take games from our youth, but that is the postion we find ourselves in.

We could end up with a pick between 2-6 and that would be great if we could use it well and bring in some more skilled players.. Hit this years draft hard, hit next years draft hard and hopefully when we are ready to come up the Suns and GWS are on the way down.

There will be 10-15 more press conferences where bucks says 'no excuses' or 'we expect better' after bad losses.. Brave yourself people, it'll get worse before it gets better. The doggies (and I rated their list long before they molested us on Saturday) bit the bullet, put themselves in a position to gain access to great young talent and look at where they are now. (Even a coaching change but let's not go there )

We don't wanna end up like carlton, the quicker we fall the quicker we rise. Right now is kinda similar to 2004, bleak. 2005 you saw where we were heading. 04 was just bleak. 2015 is bleak. We have some really good young players on our list but it's not enough, we need to draft another back that can kick on top of shaz and Maynard. We need another classy user on the wing opposite broomhead. We need a crumbing small forward that we've probably needed forever. We probably need another young talented KPP to compliment Moore.

De Goey
broomhead
elliott
Kennedy
Grundy
Freeman
Witts
Williams
Maynard
Shaz
Moore
Adams

Hopefully Fasolo and Karnezis but they've taking a long time to show consistency and maybe Crisp.
^^ decent young core to add players to in the next 2 drafts whilst we remove the deadwood.
Players like Pendles, Gwood, brown are the senior players that are most likely to be the veterans of our rise back to the promise land, Reid IF and a huge if at that can stay healthy. The rest of the older players won't make it, your Sinclair's, goldsacks, varcoe's, white's will need to be upgraded.

Hopefully we can sneak a Trelaor or Dangerfield, but I wouldn't count on it happening.

(I've probably left off a talented youngster)

(It's 1:10am and I'm very tired so I apologise if this was written poorly)

Very good post, the one thing I'd like to contribute is where you wrote
"The doggies (and I rated their list long before they molested us on Saturday) bit the bullet, put themselves in a position to gain access to great young talent and look at where they are now"

Are the dogs really in better shape than we are? A lot can happen in a week in football and people have forgotten last week when the dogs were down
7-52 to Melbourne at half time. Melbourne the team that practically lost to a VFL side this week. Last week the Bulldogs were guaranteed bottom 4 and had a long way to go, and this week they have a huge future and are pushing for finals.

My point is if we have a good win round 1 everything will change, our players that are "just not good enough" will become handy role players and we will be on the right track instead of going backwards.

 

[gutsroy]

Fifty shades of grey, fondue references... And here I was thinking this was a thread about Buckley Trap for young players.

 

[jimmy35]

Fifty shades of grey, fondue references... And here I was thinking this was a thread about Buckley Trap for young players.

And the teary Mary's and the hand wringers, don't forget those.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Not quite there but I'm almost officially completely off the Buckley wagon. He's definitely doing his best to nudge me off it. Round 1 is going to be VERY telling.

 

[DrDavoren]

No one has a more punchable head than Pyne.

A big HI from T. Abbott

 

[nahnah]

Very good post, the one thing I'd like to contribute is where you wrote
"The doggies (and I rated their list long before they molested us on Saturday) bit the bullet, put themselves in a position to gain access to great young talent and look at where they are now"

Are the dogs really in better shape than we are? A lot can happen in a week in football and people have forgotten last week when the dogs were down
7-52 to Melbourne at half time. Melbourne the team that practically lost to a VFL side this week. Last week the Bulldogs were guaranteed bottom 4 and had a long way to go, and this week they have a huge future and are pushing for finals.

My point is if we have a good win round 1 everything will change, our players that are "just not good enough" will become handy role players and we will be on the right track instead of going backwards.

They have a 20 year old who averaged 27possesions last year and he's not even getting the attention of Bonts or Boyd.. I really rate their list.
I agree with you that one win and lot of people will get behind the older role players again, but I think over the past few seasons we've seen that we will have to move on from them as they let us down way too often

 

[Seldom Seen Kid]

There's this song... It goes, "What's done is done, what's won is won; what's lost is lost and gone forever." I used to think it was an Irish rebel song, but it must have been about our storied succession plan.

One of the great Irish ballads Snag. Being of an optimistic nature, if I was to equate any lines to Collingwood's current situation it would be those just before the line you quoted:

"Now the music's gone but they carry on
For their spirit's been bruised never broken
They will not forget but their hearts are set
On tomorrow and peace once again."

 

[THATSGOLD]

But if, but if, but if, but if, but if................ But the game plan was ok etc etc but if lol, It's 2015.
Look's like people will but if for the rest of there life's about MM v's Bucks like a broken record.
Close thread as it's just more boring posts that should be in the bucks mega thread.
King Mick hey, do people need a tissue .

Congratulations on bagging the coach that won us q flag. Don't reflect on that flag anymore.

 

[Maggie5]

Bucks on gameday

View attachment 117787

Agree, keeping his eyes on the bulls eye. On the target and not looking in a mirror like someone else.

 

[Maggie5]

Congratulations on bagging the coach that won us q flag. Don't reflect on that flag anymore.

I never reflect on a 'flag', reflect on players, specific incidences like Didak's goal, atmosphere, one percenters etc.

 

[Gone Critical]

It's most likely going to take a very long time to fix this team, which is sad because a player like Pendlbury deserves to be in a good team. But reality is we've got a lot of 23-28 year olds who are pretty much useless. On top of this we are not even sure if we have the right man to fix all this and really get this rebuild going. It's going to be a very hard two years watching these list cloggers take games from our youth, but that is the postion we find ourselves in.

We could end up with a pick between 2-6 and that would be great if we could use it well and bring in some more skilled players.. Hit this years draft hard, hit next years draft hard and hopefully when we are ready to come up the Suns and GWS are on the way down.

There will be 10-15 more press conferences where bucks says 'no excuses' or 'we expect better' after bad losses.. Brave yourself people, it'll get worse before it gets better. The doggies (and I rated their list long before they molested us on Saturday) bit the bullet, put themselves in a position to gain access to great young talent and look at where they are now. (Even a coaching change but let's not go there )

We don't wanna end up like carlton, the quicker we fall the quicker we rise. Right now is kinda similar to 2004, bleak. 2005 you saw where we were heading. 04 was just bleak. 2015 is bleak. We have some really good young players on our list but it's not enough, we need to draft another back that can kick on top of shaz and Maynard. We need another classy user on the wing opposite broomhead. We need a crumbing small forward that we've probably needed forever. We probably need another young talented KPP to compliment Moore.

De Goey
broomhead
elliott
Kennedy
Grundy
Freeman
Witts
Williams
Maynard
Shaz
Moore
Adams

Hopefully Fasolo and Karnezis but they've taking a long time to show consistency and maybe Crisp.
^^ decent young core to add players to in the next 2 drafts whilst we remove the deadwood.
Players like Pendles, Gwood, brown are the senior players that are most likely to be the veterans of our rise back to the promise land, Reid IF and a huge if at that can stay healthy. The rest of the older players won't make it, your Sinclair's, goldsacks, varcoe's, white's will need to be upgraded.

Hopefully we can sneak a Trelaor or Dangerfield, but I wouldn't count on it happening.

(I've probably left off a talented youngster)

(It's 1:10am and I'm very tired so I apologise if this was written poorly)

They have a 20 year old who averaged 27possesions last year and he's not even getting the attention of Bonts or Boyd.. I really rate their list.
I agree with you that one win and lot of people will get behind the older role players again, but I think over the past few seasons we've seen that we will have to move on from them as they let us down way too often

Interesting ideas . I have a different view myself. I am one that still sees a role for our "role" players. They are not our problem, they can still be a part of a successful team but are not vital to it. Our big loss compared to 2010-11 is the loss of A grade talent and that the A grade talent we still have all underperformed in 2014. I am a strong believer it is your top end talent that is vital for success and its much easier to fill the lower rungs. As such I see the Tooveys , Blairs, Goldsacks as important to us. They have been to the big dance and proven they can cope. If surrounded by the appropriate top end talent I can see that happening again. At the same time I have no problem if they get overtaken by younger players. For mine though they stay until that happens. Dont underestimate how stabilising their experience is to a young team

This brings me to my other belief. At this point in time our kids are not that great. We played a team on Saturday night thet at this point in time has considerably better youth than we do. The young gold in our list has yet to play a game. Sharenberg, Freeman, Moore and De Goey. They are our hope along with Langdon, Elliott, Grundy, Witts, Adams and I know some will disagree but I see Fas and Williams as a chance also. A good free agent or 2 will help. It's this group where our likely next batch of stars will come from.

Broomhead, Kennedy and Maynard are much more speculative. Broomy and Kennedy project more footsoldiers in the team if they do make the transition to full AFL regulars and Maynard is a mid range pick who hasn't shown anything yet but doesn't come with the expectations of a top draftee.

At the moment the kids who have played look OK but no one looks top shelf even if Langdon, Adams, Grundy and a few others look like very good players in the making. I hope more for the ones who havent played yet to be the next group to provide real class that we need

In the meantime and hopefully when that happens Blair et al will be around to continue to do their bit

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

Bucks on gameday

View attachment 117787

[giggle]
Reposted to The Collingwood Blog

 

[augie]

I was unfortunate enough to watch a replay of Saturday night's game yesterday, having avoided it after a mate who was at the game sent me a text saying it was going to be a long year and that little league kids have better disposal. Having watched the game, and while not usually putting any real faith in practice match outcomes, I am feeling pretty pessimistic about 2015 and Buckley.

I have supported him, saying I wanted to wait to see how a team that is his performs. I gave leeway last year because of injuries. But I am not seeing anything that gives me any confidence that he can deliver. There is no desperation, no manic chasing. It is painful to watch how slowly we move forward. It is inevitable the ball gets bombed long where Cloke tries valiantly to get a fist in to prevent one of the three players he is matched up on from marking. There is a sense of inevitability watching Sinclair, Frost, Toovey etc get the ball in the back half knowing it will be quickly turned over and back for a goal.

Quite simply I hate watching us play at the moment. I want Buckley to succeed because he is a Collingwood champion (and I can barely contain my anger at Mike Sheehan's top 50 of past 25 years ranking - Buckley below Black, Harvey, Hodge, McLeod, Matera???????). But I want Collingwood to succeed more. And if Buckley isn't the man for the job, which I increasingly suspect he isn't, then I want a decision made quickly. If we are playing like we did on Saturday night, or last Sunday, in the first 6-10 rounds then I will have seen enough.

 

[jathanas]

Bucks is a very impressive person but I think he's only got one more "bad year" before patience runs out. If things go poorly in 2015 it may be the sad end.

I hope he can help steady the ship and turn things around because I want to see him succeed in the coaching caper.