Mega Thread The Adam Goodes Megathread - Now with Added Poll!

[Donners]

I am not sure it is anyone's place to determine whether one should be offended or not because of differing cultural contexts.

Muhammed Ali, Harry Connick Jr and Adam Goodes were all offended at what happened. Is it not enough to leave it at that? Are we now the moral arbiters of who can be offended by what?

If it were left at that, there would be no issue.

I think much of the conflict arises from those purporting to get in the heads of others and ascribe a racist mentality to them.

In cases where the words or actions are not clearly objectively racist, that can be a harsh label to tag somebody with.

 

[Forward Press]

As I've said, nothing to do with right or wrong, or whether one should be this or that. If you want to be offended, go for it. What I'm talking about good relations between people and how foisting your sensibilities on to others as a fact, without considering where they're coming from, isn't the best way to go about finding a common ground of understanding.

Was Bert Newton being racist when called Ali boy? I just don't think the answer to this - as a pursuit of truth not social agenda - should be established by whether or not Ali took racial offense.

Nothing to do with right or wrong, but if looking at relations between people with different backgrounds and social perceptions, absolutely Ali was offside in taking offense to Bert Newton's comment.

Seems to me you're implying Ali was wrong in taking offense to Bert Newton. Sure, the offence may have been unintentional on Newton's part, but Ali was offended. And, like I said, is that not enough to discourage it from happening in the future?

Adam Goodes understood the 13 year old girl probably didn't understand the racial connotations of the word. He even pleaded, publicly and explicitly, not to belittle the girl and instead work on educating her and others so it doesn't happen again. Doesn't sound like someone who isn't 'considering where they're coming from'.

 

[Monkey King]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invasion

Overrun by tourists. You skip the definition that applies, being an armed force, and go with the one that refers to being overrun by tourists. OMG. Ok. So I concede, Australia was invaded in the same way that tourists invade beachside towns in the summer. If that's what you're all gunning at, then I agree. But if you're trying to use it in the way that countries invade other countries, then sorry, no chalk.

An infinitely more accurate term for it though would be colonisation

Oxford Dictionary -

(Of a country or its citizens) send a group of settlers to (a place) and establish political control over it:

Come to settle among and establish political control over (the indigenous people of an area):

Appropriate (a place or domain) for one’s own use.


Australia was colonised. As brutal in action and consequence, if not more so, than many an invasion.

 

[Monkey King]

Seems to me you're implying Ali was wrong in taking offense to Bert Newton. Sure, the offence may have been unintentional on Newton's part, but Ali was offended. And, like I said, is that not enough to discourage it from happening in the future?

Nothing to do with right wrong. I'll leave these ideas to seagulls to peck over.

Does that mean Newton was being racist? Did Ali hold a presser about how Netwon was the face of racism on the night? If anything, Ali turned it into a joke once he realised the context was not at all racial.

Adam Goodes understood the 13 year old girl probably didn't understand the racial connotations of the word. He even pleaded, publicly and explicitly, not to belittle the girl and instead work on educating her and others so it doesn't happen again. Doesn't sound like someone who isn't 'considering where they're coming from'.

I couldn't have been any clearer in what I've posted.

 

[Number37]

And 100 years before that the British colonised Virginia. Or hang on, were those pilgrims now an invasion force too?



Australia was 'conquered, so because you can't conquer without invasion, it was invasion. It's a leap, skip and a jump to arrive at the invasion story.

Quite ironic to the idea of invasion was that Governor Phillips is reported to have encouraged trade with Indigenous inhabitants - hardly the act of an invading force, much more the act of a colonial settlement.

In 1835 a treaty between the Indigenous people and John Batman for much is now Melbourne was declared void by the Governor because the land was Crown Land.
Like the booers not all the settlers were racists but the treatment of the indigenous people by the settlers (on a whole) can be characterised as racist, much like not all the booers are racist but the booing (as a whole) can most definitely be characterised as racist.

But when it all boils down just another of your making it up as go along arguments. Seriously, you have a massive chip on your shoulder that you need to get looked at. There is ample evidence to support the invasion POV.

 

[Chief]

Australia was 'conquered, so because you can't conquer without invasion, it was invasion. It's a leap, skip and a jump to arrive at the invasion story.

Quite ironic to the idea of invasion was that Governor Phillips is reported to have encouraged trade with Indigenous inhabitants - hardly the act of an invading force, much more the act of a colonial settlement.

I'd back out of this one if I were you. Go and read up for a few minutes. Colonise, settle, conquer, all have meanings in international law, and philosophy going back thousands of years.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

I'd back out of this one if I were you. Go and read up for a few minutes. Colonise, settle, conquer, all have meanings in international law, and philosophy going back thousands of years.

Who really "owns" land anyway? Borders and nations are basically built on the "might makes right" theory. In a few decades China might decide they're tired of paying for our resources, and just steamroll through the country and take it by force. What will our defence be?

"You can't have my land because we've been here X amount of years!"
"You're infringing on my rights by invading."
"Please define the nature of your incursion as colonisation, settlement or invasion."

Ha. When you put all the politics and hurt feelings aside, the reality is that land belongs to whoever has the power to hold it. It sucks, it's not particularly sensitive or PC, but it's basically how the world rolls. Just ask Ukraine or the Palestinians.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I am not sure it is anyone's place to determine whether one should be offended or not because of differing cultural contexts.

Muhammed Ali, Harry Connick Jr and Adam Goodes were all offended at what happened. Is it not enough to leave it at that? Are we now the moral arbiters of who can be offended by what?

Ali and connick, whilst upset, could see that the intent was not what they perceived

Goodes, instead, seems comfortable to say just enough to ensure nothing changed

 

[Monkey King]

I'd back out of this one if I were you. Go and read up for a few minutes. Colonise, settle, conquer, all have meanings in international law, and philosophy going back thousands of years.

It was a penal colony. A group of convicts and their masters set up camp on a foreign land. They also traded with the indigenous inhabitants of that land. January 26 Australia Day might mark an event that changed indigenous Australia's way of life forever, but to call it an invasion is IMO stupid.

 

[crackerjack4X4]

As he drives his brand new sports car to training, where he looks around at the other players arriving in their equally expensive vehicles and stops to realise he is paid just as much as them, if not more, he should perhaps pause a moment and wonder about whether he is fighting a war that has already been won, and instead of complaining from his position at the top, realise how those on the bottom rungs might be sick of hearing him whinging and would much rather he just got on with life.

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/the-wayland-smithers-school-of.html

 

[Number37]

It was a penal colony. A group of convicts and their masters set up camp on a foreign land. They also traded with the indigenous inhabitants of that land. January 26 Australia Day might mark an event that changed indigenous Australia's way of life forever, but to call it an invasion is IMO stupid.

You've had a fair crack...at what point will you acknowledge the other side of the story?

 

[crackerjack4X4]

What Nicky Winmar, jim and phil krakouer had to put up with was absolutely disgusting. AG has never had that shit thrown at him.

As for Adam, well, in the end, I think he got what he really wanted.Before the game, he spoke of Nicky Winmar and his now historic stand against racism.As a man whose days are numbered at the top of his game, he really wants to be remembered like Nicky was.He wants a legacy.And as he inches closer to retirement from football, a job afterwards would be nice – perhaps the victim theatrics were just his way of auditioning for a job in the Industry.Viewing his performance from that angle, I give him an A++.They’re gonnalove him.As for me, I can’t look up to you Adam.I’m ashamed of the way a child was used as a pawn to achieve your goal, and you should be too.

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/adam-goodes-ensuring-racism-as-sport.html

 

[JackOutback]

What Nicky Winmar, jim and phil krakouer had to put up with was absolutely disgusting. AG has never had that shit thrown at him.


http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/adam-goodes-ensuring-racism-as-sport.html

So because some people copped worse abuse, he should cop whatever abuse he gets? Makes sense.

And why does every anti-Goodes poster keep referring to this one guy, like it justifies everything they are saying. You can find any number of cranks online, as I am discovering. Posting links to this one Aboriginal person that doesn't like Goodes is Akin to starting your post by saying 'But I have black friends'.

 

[sunskee]

There's nothing condescending about not tolerating racism, mate.

Goodes has been rightfully applauded by most for taking a stand against racism that day. He did the right thing, and was a true professional and caring human once the girl's age was established. He spoke with her, said it wasn't her fault, and called for the public to support her. I know that doesn't fit your angle of him being the big bad guy, but that's what happened. You're saying he should have just copped it on the chin or left it until the end of the game, but why? If she'd continued to hurl racial abuse should he still have let it slide? Then ask security to try to track her down after the siren? That's just plan silly.

Hang on, are you calling me a racist for disagreeing with your point of view?

 

[crackerjack4X4]

Adam Goodes is just auditioning for a job with the ALP.

 

[bungee]

LOL. Misapplication of the definition here. That would be like you invading my privacy, not one state invading another, whereby the definition is different.

I don't understand why people want to call British colonisation of Australia by something other than what it was - colonisation. As if that wasn't a brutal enough experience for indigenous people around the world. I'm not offended by the term, I just reject the idea and it leaves me questioning the sense of those who employ its use.

It wasn't colonisation. The rights of the established occupants were not recognised at all. They could be driven off their land, killed or enslaved with relative impunity. In 1835 Governor Bourke made the position of ownership legal when he declared the land terra nullius, meaning the indigenous people had no ownership of their land in the eyes of the British and could neither sell nor exchange for treaty. It took until 1992 for the high court case of Mabo vs QLD to successfully challenge this declaration.

As a white Australian I can't change the past but I can acknowledge it and try to change the future.

 

[bungee]

Yep I bet your kids have never made a mistake in their life and are perfect?

Mate, that's wasn't a mistake, it was just shit parenting. A teenager perpetuating the racist beliefs of her parents. That's the point Goodes was making when he said the face of racism is a 13 year old girl. He went on to say it wasn't her fault. It wasn't either. It was the fault of her parents and those who led her to believe that calling an indigenous player an ape was OK. Crikey, he even went as far as to suggest that Australians rally around and support her. Why ? Because she didn't even realise what she was doing was wrong. How f*&ked up is that ?

Mistakes are when kids don't do as their parents would like them to do. My kids still make them.

 

[bungee]

It was a penal colony. A group of convicts and their masters set up camp on a foreign land. They also traded with the indigenous inhabitants of that land. January 26 Australia Day might mark an event that changed indigenous Australia's way of life forever, but to call it an invasion is IMO stupid.

Dear Doctor

I'm into sadism, necrophilia and bestiality.

Am I flogging a dead horse ?

 

[sedders]

did any of the 67 indigenous players outside of sydney dance for goodes?

 

[crackerjack4X4]

Mate, that's wasn't a mistake, it was just shit parenting. A teenager perpetuating the racist beliefs of her parents. That's the point Goodes was making when he said the face of racism is a 13 year old girl. He went on to say it wasn't her fault. It wasn't either. It was the fault of her parents and those who led her to believe that calling an indigenous player an ape was OK. Crikey, he even went as far as to suggest that Australians rally around and support her. Why ? Because she didn't even realise what she was doing was wrong. How f*&ked up is that ?

Mistakes are when kids don't do as their parents would like them to do. My kids still make them.

The flog was grand standing / auditioning for a job with the Industry / bullying a child.

Goodes was shocked at the average Aussie’s reaction to his disgraceful antics, but he shouldn’t have been, he should have been grateful that some disgusted footy fan hadn’t jumped the fence and jobbed him!

Media’s Left had emboldened him and adorned him with an undeserved Australian of the Year prize. He started to believe his and their bullshit. He only mixed in white Aboriginal circles that promoted an Aboriginal victim mentality.

Well, Adam was served a dose of reality from real Australians who believe this land is theirs too. He clearly didn’t appreciate that much, so he took a week off to sulk.

 

[dickballsack]

Yes, but my point is that hardly anyone is doing that.

But I will grant that the whole thing has taken on a momentum of its own, and I think it's at the point where it's getting very hard to attribute where any particular push is coming from now.

Yeah you're spot on and that's the most infuriating thing is that it was allowed to take a momentum of its own. It would have been perfect for the afl to make a statement after 2 weeks just in regards to us punters making sure we are 'barracking' with the right intentions, etc. which would have made most people stop and think and most likely subdued an event which at that point was pretty benign. But I truly believe they were shocked at how it gained momentum and then shocked even more at their realisation that some of the momentum had actually turned into a political message for some. Yes hindsights a wonderfull thing and it's not a blame on the afl just annoying, but the lack of early action and the abrupt action later shows how surprised and scared they were of what had happened. I still feel for the supporters that booed him originally for being a great opposition player that they hate (hate that he destroys their team on the field) and now would feel embarrassed by it

 

[Number37]

The flog was grand standing / auditioning for a job with the Industry / bullying a child.

Goodes was shocked at the average Aussie’s reaction to his disgraceful antics, but he shouldn’t have been, he should have been grateful that some disgusted footy fan hadn’t jumped the fence and jobbed him!

Media’s Left had emboldened him and adorned him with an undeserved Australian of the Year prize. He started to believe his and their bullshit. He only mixed in white Aboriginal circles that promoted an Aboriginal victim mentality.

Well, Adam was served a dose of reality from real Australians who believe this land is theirs too. He clearly didn’t appreciate that much, so he took a week off to sulk.

Stay off the crack jack.

 

[sedders]

did any of the 67 indigenous players outside of sydney dance for goodes?

no one?

didnt think so.

he's not even liked or supported by his fellow indigenous players. he's trying to make the game all about him and most sensible people arent falling for his victim routine.

a little girl called him names. booooo hoo

 

[Number37]

no one?

didnt think so.

he's not even liked or supported by his fellow indigenous players. he's trying to make the game all about him and most sensible people arent falling for his victim routine.

a little girl called him names. booooo hoo

Are you really a little girl and do you parents know what you are writing on the internet?

 

[GWBogan]