The Age Footy Legend no 7: Gary Ablett Snr

[Pure_Ownage]

When almost 40, a 20 year old groupie was killed by hard drugs he supplied her on a massive bender one-on-one in his private hotel room.

He also assaulted his ex-wife’s new partner.

This is serious stuff. The threshold for “legend” is a lot higher than for that for “not in prison”.

I don't disagree about GAS specifically but to be fair the afl gets criticised because they don't apply that as a rule 100 % of the time when it comes to honours for past players. If they did then they wouldn't be criticised but they pick and choose based on where the media narrative is going and that's why people lambast them.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

There has to be SOME point at which you draw that line. I mean, surely no matter how good a player was, if he murdered someone, he's not getting in.

I get that but when you have guys like Leigh Matthews having respected industry positions (Neville Bruns anyone) the afl loses a lot of credibility on this stuff.

You really should have the nominations (hall of fame) controlled by an external body that has no link to afl hq so there's no bias in regards to the media and off field issues that way it would be more consistent.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

When almost 40, a 20 year old groupie was killed by hard drugs he supplied her on a massive bender one-on-one in his private hotel room.

He also assaulted his ex-wife’s new partner.

This is serious stuff. The threshold for “legend” is a lot higher than for that for “not in prison”.

I'm going to make one last post before i go to England. You're a fool. I've said this before and nobody listened.

I knew the girl in question - RIP - she was on hard drugs well before she met snr.

STOP LISTENING TO CRAP MEDIA.

 

[iameviljez]

I'm going to make one last post before i go to England. You're a fool. I've said this before and nobody listened.

I knew the girl in question - RIP - she was on hard drugs well before she met snr.

STOP LISTENING TO CRAP MEDIA.

Yeah, I'd believe that she was on hard drugs before. But I don't think that changes much. She's still a footy groupie half his age on a four-day bender who died in his hotel room from drugs he supplied.

Also, it's kind of hard to remember what you have said before per se - because you've changed your username. (Though I'll forgive you if you originally picked, say, Murdoch 21).

 

[iameviljez]

I get that but when you have guys like Leigh Matthews having respected industry positions (Neville Bruns anyone) the afl loses a lot of credibility on this stuff.

I don't think that what Lethal did was nearly as bad as GAS' rap sheet. GAS is lucky in particular that the assault on his ex-wife's partner happened in the early 90s before we took that kind of behaviour seriously - nowadays, you'd be talking year-long bans, if not life.

Don't get me wrong, what Matthews did was bad - but it was in the ballpark of, say, Denis Banks on David Rhys-Jones the year after (with the exception that Rhys-Jones more than earned a whack).

Agree with you completely that the AFL flops in the wind when it comes to its reputation.

 

[My Tilly]

I don't think that what Lethal did was nearly as bad as GAS' rap sheet. GAS is lucky in particular that the assault on his ex-wife's partner happened in the early 90s before we took that kind of behaviour seriously - nowadays, you'd be talking year-long bans, if not life.

Don't get me wrong, what Matthews did was bad - but it was in the ballpark of, say, Denis Banks on David Rhys-Jones the year after (with the exception that Rhys-Jones more than earned a whack).

Ablett caught the bloke fooling around with his girl and he did what 99% of males would do.

What never gets mentioned is all the years of work he has done for charities and communities.

 

[iameviljez]

Ablett caught the bloke fooling around with his girl and he did what 99% of males would do.

No, he caught his ex-wife - with whom he was not only separated, but estranged - with her partner, and punched his head in.

Married people need to be separated for at least 12 months before they can get a divorce. That doesn't mean they are still a couple. She had left him; there wasn't cheating.

 

[My Tilly]

No, he caught his ex-wife - with whom he was not only separated, but estranged - with her partner, and punched his head in.

Married people need to be separated for at least 12 months before they can get a divorce. That doesn't mean they are still a couple. She had left him; there wasn't cheating.

Where did you get that from?

 

[iameviljez]

Where did you get that from?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...urt-over-mortgage-default-20120502-1xysj.html

Is one source.

That said, nowhere says that the man was his ex wife’s new partner, perhaps my memory invented that

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Saw him play from 93 onwards. Otherwise, yeah, it’s video.

That said, his Geelong career started 40 years ago this year. On an internet forum - that typically will skew young - most users won’t have seen him play live at all.

That's where you're coming up short.

imo, Snr was much better when he was younger, lighter and getting around the ground more.

He was breathtaking. He's the only player I can think to use that adjective for.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

I think it's a different eras thing. Ablett junior benefited enormously from vastly more professional training, club culture, coaching, everything. Ablett senior didn't have any of that, he was still driving trucks for Ron Hovey as late as 1989.

Mild peeve of mine (not directed at you), I still think Ablett senior was way, WAY more consistent than people give credit for. Don't believe me? I wouldn't either. Just look at the following:

• 1984 - 33 goals from a wing, won his only Best and Fairest. From only 15 games played.
• 1985 - 82 goals from a half forward flank. Included hauls of 9, 8 and 6 (twice).
• 1986 - 65 goals from 15 games. Included hauls of 8, 7, and 6 (three times).
• 1987 - 53 goals from 17 games. If ever he had a "down" year this was it. More than passable for anyone else though.
• 1988 - 82 goals from 21 games. Included hauls of 11, 10,7, and 6 (twice).
• 1989 - 89 goals from 23 games. Included hauls of 14, 9, 8, 7 (twice), and 6.
• 1990 - 75 goals from 17 games. Included hauls of 12, 10, 8, 7, and 6.
• 1991 - 28 goals from 14 games on the back of zero pre-season.
• 1992 - 72 goals from 21 games. Included hauls of 9 and 6.
• 1993 - 124 goals from 17 games. Included hauls of 14, 12, 11, 10 (twice), 8 (twice), and 7 (three times).
• 1994 - 129 goals from 25 games. Included hauls of 14, 10, 7 (four times), and 6 (four times).
• 1995 - 122 goals from 22 games. Included hauls of 9, 8 (twice), 7 (four times), and 6 (five times).
• 1996 - 69 goals from 17 games. Included hauls of 9 (twice), 7, and 6 (three times).

That level of consistency is supernatural.

Yep, I've put these numbers up in another thread, him being inconsistent for me is a myth.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Yep, I've put these numbers up in another thread, him being inconsistent for me is a myth.

The thing is TEC: awesome players like Ablett Snr, Lockett and Dunstall set the bar so high that the expectations of them were far, far, greater than 95% of other players.

On a side note, it was calculated that during Gary Ablett Snr prime years as a player, he would get an additional 5,000 extra NEUTRAL spectators 'per game' played at the MCG, that's how much of an exhilarating and magical footballer he was to see play. Greg Williams who was a phenomenal player in his own right and played two full seasons with Gary in 1984/5, has said on many occasions that Gary Ablett Snr is easily the best footballer he has seen or played with and has even gone further by saying on one occasion that if anyone thinks otherwise then they don't know what they're talking about, such is his strong opinion of how good a footballer Gary Ablett Snr really was.

 

[My Tilly]

I wish the club kept Williams. Probably one of the great blunders of all time. I know he was demanding more money but just imagine had he remained here.

I heard we may not have been able to bring in Bairstow but a centreline of Hocking, Couch & Williams would have been one of the best all-time.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

I wish the club kept Williams. Probably one of the great blunders of all time. I know he was demanding more money but just imagine had he remained here.

I heard we may not have been able to bring in Bairstow but a centreline of Hocking, Couch & Williams would have been one of the best all-time.

Mr Tilly: Greg Williams was only asking for an extra 50k then down to 45k per season at the time and the Swans offer was 100k more than his previous Geelong contract, so Greg was prepared to stay at Geelong for a lot less money. But the Geelong hierarchy unfortunately said no under tight money constraints which made our champion player and club captain Michael Turner at the time livid that we didn't pay Greg the extra 50k because he had an enormous opinion of Greg as a player and thought that he was worth every cent and no doubt what you say about being one of the great blunders of all time is a fairly correct assessment.

 

[iameviljez]

For memory Mr Tilly: Greg Williams was only asking for an extra 50k per season at the time and I think the Swans offer was 200k more than his previous Geelong contract, so Greg was prepared to stay at Geelong for a lot less money. But the Geelong hierarchy unfortunately said no which made our champion player and club captain Michael Turner at the time livid that we didn't pay Greg the extra 50k because he had an enormous opinion of Greg as a player and thought that he was worth every cent and no doubt what you say about being one of the great blunders of all time is a fairly correct assessment.

He asked for 50, we went up to 45, Sydney offered 100.

Hindsight is cruel, but don’t forget that the club was absolutely penniless at the time - technically, insolvent.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

He asked for 50, we went up to 45, Sydney offered 100.

Hindsight is cruel, but don’t forget that the club was absolutely penniless at the time - technically, insolvent.

Thanks for that, I've corrected my memory loss but knowing how good a footballer Greg Williams finished up they just needed to find a way as the Captain Michael Turner for one was bitterly disappointment that we failed to keep him...... but yeah, hindsight a beautiful thing and a least Couchy won a Brownlow playing in Greg's position in '89 but he also went on to have a magnificent career with the Cats and some of his passing to Ablett Snr on the lead was sublime and as good as it gets.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

The thing is TEC: awesome players like Ablett Snr, Lockett and Dunstall set the bar so high that the expectations of them were far, far, greater than 95% of other players.

On a side note, it was calculated that during Gary Ablett Snr prime years as a player, he would get an additional 5,000 extra NEUTRAL spectators 'per game' played at the MCG, that's how much of an exhilarating and magical footballer he was to see play. Greg Williams who was a phenomenal player in his own right and played two full seasons with Gary in 1984/5, has said on many occasions that Gary Ablett Snr is easily the best footballer he has seen or played with and has even gone further by saying on one occasion that if anyone thinks otherwise then they don't know what they're talking about, such is his strong opinion of how good a footballer Gary Ablett Snr really was.

They did play two Seasons together, in his second season at Geelong, Diesel won the b&f and was voted the league's MVP. Not bad for a player Carlton rejected twice.

 

[iameviljez]

Thanks for that, I've corrected my memory loss but knowing how good a footballer Greg Williams finished up they just needed to find a way as the Captain Michael Turner for one was bitterly disappointment that we failed to keep him...... but yeah, hindsight a beautiful thing

Probably worth bearing in mind that although Williams was let go at the end of 1985, halfway through 1986 the creditors were called in to the VFL and found that Geelong (among others) was insolvent, the League was insolvent, it was trading at a $2m loss, the white elephant of VFL Park made up half its assets, and the only thing that stopped it from being wound up was (a) the expansion licence money, and (b) the fact that the receiver didn't want to be the guy who killed the VFL.

Ross Oakley isn't popular among Fitzroy fans, but he did for the competition what Costa and Cook did for the GFC.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Probably worth bearing in mind that although Williams was let go at the end of 1985, halfway through 1986 the creditors were called in to the VFL and found that Geelong (among others) was insolvent, the League was insolvent, it was trading at a $2m loss, the white elephant of VFL Park made up half its assets, and the only thing that stopped it from being wound up was (a) the expansion licence money, and (b) the fact that the receiver didn't want to be the guy who killed the VFL.

Ross Oakley isn't popular among Fitzroy fans, but he did for the competition what Costa and Cook did for the GFC.

Fair point iameviljez: and thank goodness and our lucky stars for Frank Costa and Brian Cook as the club has never looked back since they got us out of a mountain of debt and the then other existing club issues.

 

[Larry Donohue]

Gary Ablett Snr is the only player in VFL/AFL history to kick 100 goals and win the Coleman Medal in three successive seasons.

He also is the oldest player at 33 years of age to kick a 100 goals in a season which was in 1995. He also kicked the second fastest 100 in VFL/AFL history in the 1993 season when at 31 years of age he kicked 124 goals for that season at an average of 7.3 goals per game.... Gazza Snr missed out by only one week 'to equal the fastest 100 goals ever in a season'..... held by out and out champion Swans full forward Bob Pratt.

Gary Ablett Snr never played a permanent full forward position until he kicked his first 100 in 1993 (124 - 17 games av 7.3 goals per game) at 31 yrs of age, he then kicked another 100 (129 - 25 games av. 5.2 goals per game) in 1994 at 32 years of age, then another 100 (122 - 22 games av 5.5 goals per game) in 1995 at 33 years of age.

Gary Ablett Snr also holds the record for the 'most goals ever kicked in a finals series' which is 27 goals in 1989 final series. In that outstanding finals series he kicked 3 goals against Essendon in the Qualifying Final, then 7 goals against Melbourne in the first Semi-Final, then 8 goals in the Preliminary against Essendon and 9 goals in the memorable and classic 1989 Grand Final against Hawthorn, totalling 27 goals which is the VFL/AFL record. In that 1989 finals series, if for nothing else, is what separates Gary Ablett Snr from any other player that has played the game, for it was at a 'super-human level' that had never been seen before or is unlikely to ever to be seen into the future.

In conclusion: Gary Ablett Snr was a 'freak footballer' and easily the best footballer I've ever seen play the game. He was that good, he also had a champion son, Gary Ablett Jnr of which there is no argument that Gary Snr, along with his son Gary Jnr, are the best father and son combination to have ever played AFL/VFL football.

Gary Ablett Snr - The Best From the Best (but there are many, many more)

​

 

[Larry Donohue]

Snr is far and away the best footballer I have seen in my lifetime of 65 years.
Had extreme marking, kicking, goalkicking, pack breaking, game changing, position mastering (back, mid and fwd), freakishness skills of no other in my time.
Matthews, Lockett, Stewart, Skilton, Carey, Jnr, Farmer, or any other champion player ever possessed all of these skills in one package.
Senior in a canter

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I wish the club kept Williams. Probably one of the great blunders of all time. I know he was demanding more money but just imagine had he remained here.

I heard we may not have been able to bring in Bairstow but a centreline of Hocking, Couch & Williams would have been one of the best all-time.

The Swans got the 3 Geelong players as everyone knows Williams Toohey and Bolton

But they were right into Andrew Bews as well ,and at that point in time Bews hadnt done his knee and was a gun player , and very close to Hafey , but Bews knocked back the Swans offer and stayed with Geelong - so it could have been 4 Geel players who went to the Swans

Ive got no problem Geel holding firm with their offer for Williams because Geel were penniless , insolvent at the time , and Peter Hudson did exactly the same thing at Hawthorn who a few years later were broke as well , got rid of Brereton who was on big money and cut alot of contracts to the bone out of neccesity